enlightener Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 The part that I find so odd about the OP's line of logic is this: the team obviously needed a RB, so they used assets to get one. The asset they used was a guy that we can definitively say they didn't need; he missed the entire 2014 season and the defense got better without him. ok time to re-engage with a little more enlightenment....thanks to all who flamed me btw. 1. No one knows if kiko will re-injure a knee,get bigger, play better etc. he was a rookie! and what if shady gets a knee? what a huge investment for a guy who could be out for a year. 2. yes shady did cost 16 mil this year, about 6 mil per season the next 4, if we dont pay fred and next year and didnt overpay harvin and shady, we could keep two current Bills that will now be lost next year. 3. Why do we have to go run first? we doubled down on watkins, have woods, added Harvin, and got a receiving type TE, it will force us to gut goodwin and along with having weak guards we decide on run first offense? yes our qb sucks but then why go so hard after harvin and clay when we spent so much on shady? why not go with a offense that uses these 5 receiving threats more? the harvin shady clay pick ups will add up to costing us 1-2 players by next season, not counting loosing goodwin and brown. 4. Bryce Brown and Fred could have easily started the season splitting snaps and letting williams and boobie work in as back ups. it would have been enough, i see williams being the starter in 3 years anyway, he loooks like antowain smith, maybe even a poor mans' E. dickerson. maybe he even lights it up as a rookie. Bottom line it looks like Ryan added a bunch of new toys to the team, when we really needed to be saving money for its foundation. Im not all that excited about seeing guys like cognito, harvin, clay and even shady play on this team anyway. I would have rather had a season where i could see goodwin, kiko, fred, Gray, and even Brown actually play! All the while knowing that we had a pile of money ready to go for Gilmore Glenn Mckelvin Bradham and Dareus next season. Im just a fan of our own players I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 The Bills overpaid for Mario, but a team can do that on one free agent player (maybe two if they also draft well). He is an excellent player and plays a marquee position. The move set a tone and showed the Bills were serious about winning. I'm fine with it as an individual move, but you can't build a team that way. As for Clay and Shady, sure they haven't played a game with the Bills yet. But the Bills FO made decisions about what value to put on each of them when they traded for Shady and gave both huge new deals. I don't see why the fans shouldn't be able to make judgement calls on those moves now too. IMO they gave up and/or paid too much for both especially not knowing how well either will fit into the systems in Buffalo. Clay is a projection in any system with a ton guaranteed money to boot. And neither play a marquee position. Some moves are bad bets whether or not they pay off. C. Williams certainly qualifies. Sportstrac has all the contract details. Clay's contract makes him about the 15th or 16th highest paid TE in 2015 & 2016 against the cap, which sounds about right to me. McCoy's ranked 7th & 6th for the next two years -- and you could make an argument he's the best RB in the game (definitely top 5), and going into the year that is traditionally a RBs most productive year (that oft-cited study can be read two ways and age 27 is the peak). Sooo, if McCoy gets 2000 yards and Clay is a great outlet for Manuel or Cassel (or Taylor), it's still a bad bet. I semi-respectfully disagree. Sorry, I'm just sick of this misconception that they grossly overpaid for Clay & McCoy, or that it would mean them not re-signing Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore, and/or Bradham. It just doesn't hold up to the facts or math or anything. Besides, what we really should be complaining about is Garrison Sanborn's contract. Over a million dollars for a long snapper?!?!?!? It's the 30th largest cap hit of 2015. Outrage! Doooooooomed! Etc.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Check out his work as a Stevie/Sammy. "Stan" sorry what does that even mean? also i know i hurt your feelings when i said SJ wasnt a real #1, but i was right. And sorry that by game 4 i called out Sammy as being soft when everyone else was singing his praises, like you. Theres only been about 20 stories since the end of the season saying he didnt catch any 50/50 balls or where he himself admitted to being hurt and not playing hard last year. Sorry i am right and you just dont like it. why not add something of substance...for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 sorry what does that even mean? also i know i hurt your feelings when i said SJ wasnt a real #1, but i was right. And sorry that by game 4 i called out Sammy as being soft when everyone else was singing his praises, like you. Theres only been about 20 stories since the end of the season saying he didnt catch any 50/50 balls or where he himself admitted to being hurt and not playing hard last year. Sorry i am right and you just dont like it. why not add something of substance...for once. Sammy is soft? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks for that...up until now I thought you were serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 sorry what does that even mean? also i know i hurt your feelings when i said SJ wasnt a real #1, but i was right. And sorry that by game 4 i called out Sammy as being soft when everyone else was singing his praises, like you. Theres only been about 20 stories since the end of the season saying he didnt catch any 50/50 balls or where he himself admitted to being hurt and not playing hard last year. Sorry i am right and you just dont like it. why not add something of substance...for once.soft? He played the entire season with broken ribs, groin issues and an injured hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have not read all of the posts in this thread, but, as I previously commented: At the end of the day, I will evaluate this trade by comparing: Shady and his cap hit and performance v. Kiko and CJ and their lower collective cap hit and their performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Sportstrac has all the contract details. Clay's contract makes him about the 15th or 16th highest paid TE in 2015 & 2016 against the cap, which sounds about right to me. McCoy's ranked 7th & 6th for the next two years -- and you could make an argument he's the best RB in the game (definitely top 5), and going into the year that is traditionally a RBs most productive year (that oft-cited study can be read two ways and age 27 is the peak). Sooo, if McCoy gets 2000 yards and Clay is a great outlet for Manuel or Cassel (or Taylor), it's still a bad bet. I semi-respectfully disagree. Sorry, I'm just sick of this misconception that they grossly overpaid for Clay & McCoy, or that it would mean them not re-signing Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore, and/or Bradham. It just doesn't hold up to the facts or math or anything. Besides, what we really should be complaining about is Garrison Sanborn's contract. Over a million dollars for a long snapper?!?!?!? It's the 30th largest cap hit of 2015. Outrage! Doooooooomed! Etc.! Clay and Shady are both 4th highest paid at their respective positions according to OTC: http://overthecap.com/position/running-back/ A case certainly can be made for Shady that his is market value, but I'm not a proponent of paying RBs those kinds of deals and that contract isn't all it took to get him. What the Bills traded away for him is part of his cost and I hate losing Kiko (who is inexpensive). I can't imagine anyone making a good argument that Clay is close to top 4 at the TE position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 soft? He played the entire season with broken ribs, groin issues and an injured hip. Yeah but did you see that catch Odell Beckham Jr. made?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 That's exactly my point: you're talking about the cap being "a joke", and yet your plan for managing it is to release the starting TE, starting FS, and a former No. 3 overall pick. I would say that's a direct impact of the cap. Cameron's deal was designed this way on purpose. It was essentially a one year deal. He has a history with concussions and I believe that will only continue. Rashad Jones is getting up there in age and Dion Jordan is no loss at all. None of those moves hurt their team much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Cameron's deal was designed this way on purpose. It was essentially a one year deal. He has a history with concussions and I believe that will only continue. Rashad Jones is getting up there in age and Dion Jordan is no loss at all. None of those moves hurt their team much. And exactly how does that make the salary cap a joke? If the cap didn't matter, then they wouldn't have to part ways with guys that are currently starters in order to stay exactly where they are, would they? and by the way, Reshad Jones is 27...that's hardly "getting up there" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 the more i look at the future we face regarding cuts etc, the more the mccoy trade looks like a horrible move, not due to talent or ability etc, but from a roster and financial standpoint. 1. after we complained for years about our tackle position, as well as our corners, looks like we will have to cut either glenn or gilmore. ok maybe its mckelvin or maybe its bradham after already losing kiko, or cutting fred early or shudder maybe even Mario. 2. We traded a low-cost fan favorite linebacker for a 16 milllion dollar RB right before we have to resign 4 starters. And didnt we try the premier running back route for the last 15 years? How far did we get with Antowain, Mcgahee, Lynch or Spiller??? the most productive runner we had was 2nd rounder travis henry anyway. So now instead of drafting RB in the first, we trade a 2nd, and will lose one of our 1sts (gilmore dareus or glenn) next year, all for the joy of having a top tier running back in his 6th year. 3. We finally have 5 high talent receiving options, both tackles solidified, and weak guards, so we decide on a run first offense? things got worse not better when we spent a 5th on carlos williams. this would have worked out fine if we hadnt gotten shady. But now it forces a cut of either fred or brown and if its brown, it means we wasted a 4rth and will never know what brown could have done here. If its fred, we lose fred, nuff said. we overstocked at a position we really didnt need and by next year,in the end it will end up costing us a 1st, 2nd, and 4rth round pick. the combination will be either... Kiko, fred, & gilmore or.... kiko, brown, & glenn or possibly even a.... kiko, mckelvin, bradham and Fred combination or maybe we just lose Mario either way, it was a bad move. Go Bills! We've been a crap team for 15 years, most people expect us to be a playoff team with a defense that has potential to be talked about with the best of recent memory. We have more talent on offense than we have had in years. I think they are handling the roster just fine. No complaints here. (and Kiko was way overrated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 ok time to re-engage with a little more enlightenment....thanks to all who flamed me btw. That's not fair. Most people who read your original post would assume you're flaming yourself... In fact I'm pretty sure you still are. Can't blame people for piling on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Shady had him a time in Vegas this past weekend! Like an audition for "Ballers" http://bustedcoverage.com/2015/07/20/shady-mccoy-vegas-encore-pool-photos/ Edited July 23, 2015 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Miss Kiko, but having a RB of Shady's caliber is great! The trade looks good on paper and should be a win:win for both teams. I still believe the Buffalo Bills MVP in 2015 should go to Doug Moron for quitting and bringing in this influx of talent this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) 50% of the time 100% of the stats on this website are 67% accurate. Im gunna tell ya right now, those made up percentages dont even come close to matching my made up percentages. Thats a fact! Edited July 23, 2015 by fansince88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 2. yes shady did cost 16 mil this year, about 6 mil per season the next 4, if we dont pay fred and next year and didnt overpay harvin and shady, we could keep two current Bills that will now be lost next year. Really? which 2 bills is shady costing us. do enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 sorry what does that even mean? also i know i hurt your feelings when i said SJ wasnt a real #1, but i was right. And sorry that by game 4 i called out Sammy as being soft when everyone else was singing his praises, like you. Theres only been about 20 stories since the end of the season saying he didnt catch any 50/50 balls or where he himself admitted to being hurt and not playing hard last year. Sorry i am right and you just dont like it. why not add something of substance...for once. Okie dokie stan. Single white female might resonate better. Good movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Really? which 2 bills is shady costing us. do enlighten me.Wayne Hunter and Jeff Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 15 years of suffering. Things are on the upswing for 2015 and now we have to worry about a few years down the road. Its now or never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Whaley made offers to O-Linemen and was turned down. Harvin's contract did not prevent Whaley from upgrading the O-Line. I beg to differ because just after the Bills signed Harvin at 6 mill per Whaley stated the Bills were done signing free agents. After signing Harvin his words, “To put it bluntly, everybody’s celebrating our victories, but we’ve had some losses in this free agency” period “and it happened to be on the offensive line,” General Manager Doug Whaley said Tuesday during the NFL meeting here." "At only $5.28 million under the NFL salary cap, the Bills don’t have any room left for more major acquisitions." “We’re tapped out,” Whaley said. “We’re at the point now where we’ve got to save” cap space “for the draft choices and for injury replacements next year. So anything we do from now on will basically be minimum” salaried “guys." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/03/24/whaley-offensive-line-a-loss-in-otherwise-winning-offseason-for-bills/ Had the Bills not signed Harvin for that 6 mill I would think that Whaley would have continued looking for upgrades at RT & RG. After all it was clearly the weakest area of the team last year, and OT Brian Bulaga / OG Jhari Evans would have been known solid huge upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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