Cassel advantage and explanation of EJ's command issues

[Hapless Bills Fan]

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/8990/cassel-brady-maintain-close-friendship

 

In this article you will see the benefits of having worked with the greatest of our time at the QB position, Tom Brady. To keep this post short, it boils down to the fact that veteran guidance forces a player to learn the correct motions and puts him in his place at the most crucial time of a QB's career to avoid learning bad habits. When Cassel was a rookie, he had Brady correcting him every step of the way. (....)

 

Cassel knows the Patriots and openly admitted following them even when he was a Viking. If anybody knows how to beat them it would be either Matt Cassel or Rex Ryan. Cassel is still friends with Brady, and Brady respects him as a good quarterback. Perhaps Cassel is the piece that brings this team respect along with the other offensive options we have on the field, so that teams don't just mentally put themselves over us and lock in a win in their mind, as Brady has done the last decade.

 

Nice article, thanks.

 

I do think your title is a bit misleading. Yes, EJ was thrown to the wolves a bit here with no QB coach and even if Kolb stayed around, he's not a winner/champion type. That point has been made in a number of threads, is not addressed at all in the linked article and there's really no new info or explanation about EJ here.

 

I thought Cassel was a good vet QB. Of the slim pickin's available I thought we made good choices. I agree with you that it's a Good Thing to have two QBs who have played with champions and on playoff teams, as well as an OC who has - guys who really know what it takes to be a winner.

 

I don't think we should go nuts though about "if anyone should know how to beat (the Pats) it should be Matt Cassel". For all we know his friendship may have a bit of the aura of hero worship, for one thing, which makes the worshiper a nice off-season friend but doesn't lead to him getting out of bed with that "damn, I know I can whip your butt" mojo. For another thing, that article came out just before a game where the Patriots whipped the Vike's butts 30-7. There's also nothing in the article about "Brady respects him as a good QB". He may - but Cassel didn't have enough Brady rub off on him to have other than a mediocre and inconsistent career after leaving NE.

[Doc]

EJ has had nobody to learn how to be a NFL QB in the league. he has had absolutely nobody. Orton is anything but a leader.

 

Leadership is a responsibility that someone has to be willing and wanting to take on and then you learn it from others.

 

Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe. Luck has Hassleback.

 

It took Peyton years to win a championship. I don't recall who he learned from but when you have nobody it's trial by fire and in today's NFL fans and teams aren't willing to wait.

His dad.

[#34fan]

solid original point regarding the importance of young players receiving guidance by vets, that transcends the Xs & Os and applies directly to their ability to lead.

 

i posted an article last season stating that i thought EJ was soft, and many on this board could only puff out their internet chests and question how i'd fare after saying that to the man.

that wasn't the point then, and it's not the OP's point - but the perception of EJ being 'soft' was not unfounded.

 

do you folks recall the comments that followed EJ's benching last year?

how Watkins and Woods described the difference between an Orton and a EJ huddle?

or maybe you remember reading Marrone's comments about EJ having to develop a 'thick skin' and 'fight' for what he wants?

 

back to the OP's point..

EJ has had plenty of coaches, but he's never had a mentor. he's never had a veteran confidant who could take him aside and emphasize what he needed to accomplish before he could command his teammates.

this was a less obvious failure in the development of a 1st round investment - and being its the QB position we're talking about, it was a major omission.

 

i've been scratching my head about how Matt Cassel fits into the scheme of things - purely from a skill set perspective. thanks to the OP for exposing another aspect of Cassel's acquisition that i hadn't considered.

 

Rex is the absolute WORST coach to have during a QB controversy.... on the bright side, we're !00% SET at backup QB... No question there.

[filthymcnasty08]

EJ has had nobody to learn how to be a NFL QB in the league. he has had absolutely nobody. Orton is anything but a leader.

 

Leadership is a responsibility that someone has to be willing and wanting to take on and then you learn it from others.

 

Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe. Luck has Hassleback.

 

It took Peyton years to win a championship. I don't recall who he learned from but when you have nobody it's trial by fire and in today's NFL fans and teams aren't willing to wait.

 

Jameis had EJ

[Doc]

Is that what happened to Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallet and Damond Huard and Rohan Davey?

And Kilff Kingsbury, and Kevin O'Connell and Zac Robinson?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I think its a reasonable assumption that a strong veteran presence mentoring EJ is a very good thing.

What EJ learned from Orton remains to be seen. But Cassel has that potential.

Thats why i think he is a good pickup. Can teach and mentor, and can backup well enough.

 

The season may well sit upon Manuel's shoulders.

Not a bad post really.

How do you learn accuracy and feel for the game?

[billsgpr88]

I know we all want to look for reasons as to why ej hasn't panned out yet. The fact is, and it pains me to say this, but he cannot read a defense and he absolutely cannot throw accurate balls consistently. Nothing is going to change those shortcomings

[Webster Guy]

EJ can learn the smooth, deceptive play action pass move from Cassel, he is very good at it. Frankly, every NFL qb should watch boomer esiason tapes he was the master at hiding that ball and freezing defenses. Honorable mention to Favre and Cam Newton. But Cassel is slick.

 

The other thing Roman will allow is the qb tuck it and run. EJ used to know how to do it and Cassel was deadly against us with the qb scramble. They are both relatively fast.

 

I'm not a huge believer in mentoring from a veteran being more valuable than an awesome qb coach and OC, but it certainly cant hurt.

 

The guy that wins the job is going to come down to who is the most accurate on the long balls, because we have guys that can fly, and if we can't hit them in stride its gonna be a stacked run box all season

[John from Riverside]

I know we all want to look for reasons as to why ej hasn't panned out yet. The fact is, and it pains me to say this, but he cannot read a defense and he absolutely cannot throw accurate balls consistently. Nothing is going to change those shortcomings

You know it is amazing how a completion here and a non completion there can make such a bit deal on perception of what EJ Manuel cannot do.

 

I am using my NFL rewind quite a bit right now.....mostly looking at the players we are bringing in. Tonight I am rewatching the game against the Texans from last year

 

- For some damn reason we dont seem to want to give help to where JJ Watt is coming from......and the guy is taking cheap shots at the legs of our young QB....

 

Despite that

 

- So far there are two perfectly thrown passes that Mike WIlliams does not secure that would have made a huge difference in the game.

 

- Fred Jackson nearly gets EJ killed wiffing on immediate pressure on EJ....QB has no chance....3rd down

 

- Follows it up with a 3rd down conversion to Jackson for a first

 

- Another 1st down pass by EJ

 

- Next pass is picked.....no I gotta call BS here. The defender is not even playing the ball and is interfering with Woods allowing another player to pick the ball. THis was not necessarily a bad through by EJ.

 

Guys.....we were 2-1 when Kyle was inserted and now that I go back and look at the games I am not sure that this was the proper time to pull EJ.......I am having serious second thoughts on this. I was in favor of it at the time but now I am not so sure.

 

I think Marrone got scared and mad a rash judgement.

 

- Threads the needle on a beautiful Watkins touchdown pass

 

- He is getting hit by Watt it seems like every time he throws.....gets off the ground and will complete the next pass.

 

- On that drive right before halftime.....a bone to pick here.....he is throwing passes that are getting his receivers drilled......now......I honestly dont know if the plays are designed to go their (coaching) or if EJ's head clock is just going so fast he is too eager to get rid of the ball to a underneath guy.

 

- EJ throws the pick to JJ Watt....bad play....didnt put enough air on it......

 

- I always like to see how a player reacts after a turnover like that......on the next series 2 things happen.....a. EJ goes for the more difficult throw downfield which was better covered and doesnt not hit hsi TE which would have been a much shorter gain......shows EJ wants the bigger play but not smart about taking what the D was giving....then b. He throws a catchable ball to Sammy Watkins that would have been a first down...it was not perfect but catchable....teamates HAVE to help their young QB out by making those catches.

 

- Bomb from EJ Manuel to Mike WIlliams for a TD

 

- Chandler totally doesnt get his head around to catch a catchable ball from EJ.......under 5 minutes in the 4th every play is critical

 

- EJ thows a deep uncatchable pass for Mike WIlliams to his outside shoulder......not one friggen run mixed into this whole drive

 

- Under 2 minutes left to go EJ shows some good elusiveness escaping pressure with a run....its not a first down but with a lot of QBs that is a sack

Edited April 6, 2015 by John from Hemet

[Don Beebe]

I actually think the point is valid.......

 

But I dont think that EJ is soft......I think that EJ has been the victim of a lot of things that doom a young QB

 

- First......just as it was said the moment he was drafted by Mayok....."EJ Manuel is like a piece of clay.....a QB that you can mold into whatever you want" MEANING.......he had everything you look for....but was not NFL ready. So what do the bills do? THey go out and get an injury prone Kolb who on que gets hurt and EJ gets thrown onto the field way sooner then he should have. Manuel should have been holding a clipboard that first year.....regardless of how well he did or didnt do on the field.

 

- Then in that first year EJ was unlucky with the injuries......which took away something that actually should be a big part of his game.....his ability to move and make something from nothing to keep drives going instead of either forcing a bad play......the EJ Manuel that would run for a touchdown when he didnt see a receiver open was actually really fun to watch.....and made him dangerous........

 

- Then you go into this second year......under coaches that have made EVER SINGLE QB UNDER CENTER LOOK BAD WHEN GIVEN ENOUGH TIME......then Marrone frankly panics and pulls EJ (and I was not against it at the time I will admit.....but then Orton goes in....plays well for two games...then starts to suck which goes back to me no QB is looking good under these coaches thing)

 

- Along with all of this......the bills are a running team that frankly cant run the ball.....which makes it even harder on a quarterback.....were it now for what is frankly a super bowl caliber D no way we go 9 and 7

 

So now here we are......El Pegula's bills......crap load of money spend on the O side of the ball........EJ has had his chance to hold a clipboard behind a veteran and another veteran has been brought in......a OC who knows what it is to win in the NFL consistantly......a D with the gang intact.

 

I think EJ is gonna look better........how much better? I cannot say. Cassel is perfect mentoring/placeholding QB......lets just see....lets just see

I agree with all this,, plus add in the bad advice he got from receiver Williams," Throw it high and I will go up and get it."

[eball]

EJ has had nobody to learn how to be a NFL QB in the league. he has had absolutely nobody. Orton is anything but a leader.

 

Leadership is a responsibility that someone has to be willing and wanting to take on and then you learn it from others.

 

Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe. Luck has Hassleback.

 

It took Peyton years to win a championship. I don't recall who he learned from but when you have nobody it's trial by fire and in today's NFL fans and teams aren't willing to wait.

 

In Y1 EJ had nobody. Last year Orton filled that role, and your statement about him is 100% wrong. Go back and find the articles after Orton took over as starter; they are full of quotes from players like, "nobody studies and practices harder" and "telling receivers where they need to be" and other stuff like that. Orton taught EJ he couldn't be everybody's friend, which is all articles like these are really saying. The QB has to work harder than anyone to demand respect, and the QB has to demand better from everyone around him to be truly considered a leader.

 

We'll see what sort of EJ we have coming back soon enough.

[3rdand12]

How do you learn accuracy and feel for the game?

Settle down. Know your reads , have some confidence in route runners , what your big uglies are going to do passing a stunt off !

Experience.

Its possible right ?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

No QB coach for a rookie starter?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The point of this thread is to point out the fact that no matter how many offensive options you put on the field, your team will never get respect until two things happen: 1.) Your younger QB Produces. 2.) You bring in a veteran QB like we have done that has respect from NFL players.

 

I don't get it, are you saying Wilson had to have Flynn there? Or Luck had to have some vet, or Manning? I can't even remember who was the Colt's backup QB Luck's rookie year.

 

I was very pleased we brought in another capable vet this offseason, I don't understand why it's necessary for a team to get respect. I think there are a lot of factors at play, including how much of a project the young QB is and what the rest of the team is like, notably OL

 

I don't think it's an accident that two of the most NFL-ready QB of recent years, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, had fathers who were former NFL QB.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

I don't get it, are you saying Wilson had to have Flynn there? Or Luck had to have some vet, or Manning? I can't even remember who was the Colt's backup QB Luck's rookie year.

 

I was very pleased we brought in another capable vet this offseason, I don't understand why it's necessary for a team to get respect. I think there are a lot of factors at play, including how much of a project the young QB is and what the rest of the team is like, notably OL

 

I don't think it's an accident that two of the most NFL-ready QB of recent years, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, had fathers who were former NFL QB.

I believe it was Arizona's savior, Drew Stanton

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Rex Ryan: Let's not dump EJ Manuel after 2 years, look at Aaron Rodgers

Edited April 6, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[BuffaloHokie13]

Rex Ryan: Let's not dump EJ Manuel after 2 years, look at Aaron Rodgers

I think you messed up your link, that goes to the top of page 2 on this topic for me

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I think you messed up your link, that goes to the top of page 2 on this topic for me

sorry Fixed it

[Gugny]

EJ has had nobody to learn how to be a NFL QB in the league. he has had absolutely nobody. Orton is anything but a leader.

 

Leadership is a responsibility that someone has to be willing and wanting to take on and then you learn it from others.

 

Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe. Luck has Hassleback.

 

It took Peyton years to win a championship. I don't recall who he learned from but when you have nobody it's trial by fire and in today's NFL fans and teams aren't willing to wait.

 

P. Manning learned from OJT.

 

I don't think Favre had crap to do with Rodgers' success, nor do I think Bledsoe had anything to do with Brady's. Hasselback isn't making Luck any better and Montana didn't make Young a HOF'er.

 

Good QBs are just good.

 

It's also my belief that the great ones don't do much mentoring at all. They're too busy making themselves great. Otherwise Curtis Painter would have been good.

 

The trial by fire thing worked well for both Mannings, as well as most other great QBs. Because they were already great.

 

Problem is ... they are few and far between. People seem to think that because there are 32 teams, that there is a chance for there to be 32 great QBs. It's never been the case, nor will it.

 

In any given year, I'd say there is never more than 5 truly great QBs in the league.

 

The fact that the Bills don't have one doesn't mean anything other than they are the norm.

[RuntheDamnBall]

That's not even a real name. That's from one of those name generator sites where you plug in a nursery rhyme character, a jean manufacturer and a hair products distributor to get your name. Mine was Peep Lee Sassoon.

I thought you won "Bo Levi Mitchell" under a Mountain Dew cap name generator.