The Offensive Line: Better Than Advertised?

[Wayne Cubed]

Not PFF, again...

[thewildrabbit]

yea -- urbik being a backup was really the downfall of that line. shame on whaley.

 

i think you are the first to argue that the issue wasnt marrones refusal to play him.

I think Marrone saw what I saw in Urbik, that at times he looks like a passable player as a pass blocker, and a horrid run blocker. Then falls on his face in big games. I also think Buddy Nix had great influence over the construction of the O line.

 

"The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials

 

Needless to say the entire line was a disaster last year, and so was the coaching staff IMO. As I'm sure you all remember my constant complaining about both Marrone, and his OC Hackett. Lets not forget that if Marrone hadn't walked away he would still be the head coach, and all the bad assistant coaches would also still be here.

 

Right now I'm trying to post a link to my downloads of Urbik in that Raider game with 6:21 to go in the first, and how a bum DT on a 2-12 team managed to shove the guy 5 yards into the backfield on a run play. (I'm not tech savvy) If anyone has a way to make gif of that play or post it here it would be greatly appreciated. It would show a big reason as to why I think Urbik should be gone.

 

 

The simple truth is so far the only changes made to the line are an addition of a player with known mental problems at OG who could have a relapse at any time, and become useless to the team. Its clear that three player positions were in desperate need of upgrading. LG, RG, RT The team only upgraded one position so far, and with a "maybe" player at that.

 

Dunno about the rest of you but it bothers me greatly that the weakest area of last years team has been mostly ignored in free agency so far.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Anyone know if the O-line coach of the Bills' was already with the Bears whe nChriss Williams played there? If so could be that the coach is stating I know how to use him and make him look good. Or did that coach come in and get rid of him, if so doesn't bode well for him here then

[DC Tom]

Since "grain of salt" were my exact words I'll assume you're addressing me...many of us said even then that PFF grades should be taken with a grain of salt because they're rather arbitrary in nature.

 

That hadn't changed.

 

Personally, I think they should be taken with a moderately sized salt mine. Throwing darts would generate more meaningful numbers.

[Kelly the Dog]

Anyone know if the O-line coach of the Bills' was already with the Bears whe nChriss Williams played there? If so could be that the coach is stating I know how to use him and make him look good. Or did that coach come in and get rid of him, if so doesn't bode well for him here then

Not sure but I believe that Kromer was with the Saints when Williams was with the Bears, and Williams was with the Rams when Kromer was with the Bears.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

 

The line wasn`t that bad last yr it was a old slow back making it look bad. Remember when he was hurt,and missed a game. Bryce and Boobie tore it up................crickets.

 

This

[TPS]

I'll keep beating the CK drum. He has first round talent. He came in thinking his talent would get him by; it didn't. He knows he has to work on technique because everyone has talent at this level. He's working on it. That said, he now has to prove it.

[Kirby Jackson]

Not sure but I believe that Kromer was with the Saints when Williams was with the Bears, and Williams was with the Rams when Kromer was with the Bears.

98% sure that this is correct. Kromer was with the Saints when they developed Evans, Nicks, Streif, etc... He is a highly respected offensive coach.

[Doc]

When PFF posted Cordy Glenn's grade of (+23) for 2013 fans here couldn't stop gushing about how good he is, and that number was more then accurate then. Now when the players get bad grades they must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Take a long hard look at those numbers because they don't lie. Urbik only had 9 game starts last season, and he played very poorly in a lot of games. My biggest problem with this player is he plays his worst in the big games. I agree with Kirby that the team still needs one to two quality starters for the line, and two would be ideal in my view. There was a strong reason why the bills made an attempt to sign RT Bryan Bulaga. Look at the numbers as those are for an overall grade, they don't reflect the actual RUN* blocking grades which are much worse.

 

 

Try and put this into perspective from the other side of the line. Would any of you think it would be OK with a player on the defensive line with a negative grade at DT, or DE? The Bills have a 100 million dollar DE, and a 50 cent RT. A pro bowl DT, and 25 cent OG's. Thinking that a new coach is suddenly going to resurrect bums into passable quality players is more then ridiculous.

 

I don't hold Marrone totally responsible for the play last year because he wanted Urbik gone, and the FO told him he was a quality player.

Urbik was reinserted into the starting lineup midway through the season at LG, whereas in the past he'd been playing RG and graded-out decently. The Bills could do worse (and have) than reinserting him back into the lineup at RG, while still looking for an upgrade there. As for Glenn, I'd attribute his decline from 2013 to be more from his illness and missing most of the off-season, as well as the LG play, until proven otherwise. But I agree the Bills were looking at Bulaga because they want a proven option at RT.

[DC Tom]

Someone explain something to me:

 

Why the Pears hate?

 

I've watched the offensive plays on Game Rewind for three games (Raiders, Texans, and Packers), and Pears looks like the most solid blocker on the line. In pass blocking I saw him get beat once (head-slap and inside move from the Packers' Mike Neal).

 

Urbik, on the other hand, routinely gets beaten like an area rug during spring cleaning. But PFT's so-called "analytics" rate Pears that much worse the Urbik? Do they even watch football?

 

(Side note: Wood has a very weird habit of snapping the ball wide of EJ's left shoulder on shotgun snaps. Which means, given how often they lined up in the shotgun, that EJ was getting a lot of badly placed snaps. Wood didn't do it to Orton, though.)

[JoeF]

I agree with the OP. My reasoning is a little different...

 

I think the skill position signings the Bills will take pressure off the line....Roman will use the skill personnel in unique ways to create mismatches and force the D to either shift or give up easy plays that keep the chains moving. Bills have weapons that need to be doubled (Watkins and Harvin); are constant breakaway run threats (Harvin and Shady) and also skill position players who are top tier blockers (Clay and Felton)...

 

An example--lets say its 3rd and 3.....Formation is 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set -- The formation starts with twins right with Watkins and Woods- Percy motions from left to right making it trips--left is the strong side with the TE-- D was planning to double Harvin with a short corner to take away the slant or out and a safety deep...When Harvin motions --if the D shifts with Percy -- Cassel sees the defense shift with Percy and calls the run option off this formation. Its an off tackle to the strong side. Wood and the LG hit the DT and gum the MLB. Cordy seals the DE and Clay chips him. Clay then peels to the second level and hits the OLB....Shady is one on one in space with the OLB with Clay as a lead blocker who gets late DB help due to the shift.

 

If the D does not shift with Harvin -- Two of the Wideouts run sprints and the widest runs a 5 yard delayed sluggo into open space --Easy pickings..where the line is holding only for a 3 count at most...

 

There are a ton of situations like this. Roman will use the skill position personnel to create biases in the D to take pressure off line...and having Clay and Felton are like adding two hybrid blockers to the system.

 

The offense will be simple like the Pats offense -- 10-15 base plays but mixed with motion, different formations to promote mastery of the plays. This is how you play when you have talent. As for QB, there was no confidence in EJ last year to make these type of reads--this is where Cassel excels and hopefully EJ and Taylor have learned...This offense is get the ball out of the QBs hands and into the hands of a playmaker ASAP with enough deep threat to keep the D honest.....while the triggerman is still important he's more of a band leader than lead guitar and vocals....

 

I am excited because talent leads to both simplicity and creating mismatches -- the Bills have enough talent on Offense now to create a lot of mismatches and this takes pressure off the line because instead of aggression the D has to think ...Still would like to see the Bills get a rookie OL who has played inside and outside on the line early...but I think the Bills have enough now to improve because scheming and skill position weapons are both upgraded.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Formerly Joe F