Major Mud Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The Dolphins are doing a lot of work to fix a place where no one goes. Not true, on Bills game days it's like Ralph Wilson south. I truly enjoy going to the games in this "hostile" crowd. Because normally there's hundreds of other Bills fans in whatever section I'm sitting in. But I see what your saying, normally the Fins fans dress as empty seats. I'm actually looking forward to the renovations at Sun Life. The afternoon games you bake in the sun, and have to drink way too much beer to cool down. The roof over the fans is a great idea. I went to my first ever night game down there this year, it was awesome. However, trying to get to the stadium on a work day was a nightmare. And the ride home sucked after midnight crossing Alligator Alley. Edited February 24, 2015 by chiefbigtalljoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Did we not just spend $130MM on upgrades?? Would you really spend hundreds of millions on more renovations on RWS when you are building a new stadium in 5 years? You call a new store, some new vending spaces and a new scoreboard upgrades to the fullest? OK. And if another $150m was spent, that revenue would surely be generated easily within those 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 There are 2 questions other than who pays how much, they are where downtown and open or closed. These are IMO the most important questions, if it's built far enough out, say towards the Ford plant, you can build back towards downtown with hotels, retail etc to tie it all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think the idea that Stadiums generate business growth is....a limited view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You call a new store, some new vending spaces and a new scoreboard upgrades to the fullest? OK. And if another $150m was spent, that revenue would surely be generated easily within those 5 years. Based on what exactly? What kind of renovations did you want? Seats with gonad ticklers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Based on what exactly? What kind of renovations did you want? Seats with gonad ticklers? What do I want? Nothing specifically, I haven't suggested certain renovations. I simply proposed a suggestion of upgrading/renovating the Ralph further until a new stadium is 100% in the works/secured. And surely after a period of 5 years TV revenue, merchandise, ticket prices or even stadium leases for other events would get it there? But sure, gonad ticklers would work. Edited February 24, 2015 by Smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm 1,000% positive that the Pegula's have already agreed to whatever the NFL wants as a condition of the sale. Being 1,000% positive is same thing as being 1,000% clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Being 1,000% positive is same thing as being 1,000% clueless.So 100% positive I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. It is pretty much exactly what I used to do so I know a good deal about it (at least I like to think I do). We went through $135M renovation to the arena that was done in 3 phases. The conversations that were had internally all centered around revenue maximization. Every single update that it included was designed on generating revenue 1st and foremost. It is nice to be able to hide behind, "we are building this party perch so that fans will have a great place to grab a drink while overlooking the game." The reality is we built it so that we could call it the "Bud Light Party Perch" or whatever. The revenue that they paid for that name dwarfed the potential revenue of the 500 seats that we removed or whatever it was. Just out of curiosity, do you mean Bud Light paid more than the revenue of the 500 seats? I ask, only because I'm business minded and numbers interest me. I'm trying to get my mind around how Bud Light's fees could trump 500 sold tickets. Even if the tickets were cheap, let's say $50 a pop that's $25,0000 per game. That means Bud Light pays in excess of $25,000 per game? I ask sincerely out of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Just out of curiosity, do you mean Bud Light paid more than the revenue of the 500 seats? I ask, only because I'm business minded and numbers interest me. I'm trying to get my mind around how Bud Light's fees could trump 500 sold tickets. Even if the tickets were cheap, let's say $50 a pop that's $25,0000 per game. That means Bud Light pays in excess of $25,000 per game? I ask sincerely out of curiosity.Yes, the tickets were priced anywhere from $10-$15 a game depending on the opponent. The NBA requires (at least did) every team to have at least 500 tickets at $10 or less. We held double that. The potential revenue was about $5,000 a game or $200,000 on the season. The beauty of it is if there were no $10 seats people move to $20 or whatever. We never had them all full anyways. We used to use them as comp tickets because we wanted the paying customers buying at least the next tier up. Bud Light would pay maybe like $300k for that asset. Edited February 25, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 If Buffalo is stupid enough to short arm a way passed due NEW stadium, then Buffalo deserves to be called the mistake on the lake. That Stadium needs to be a retractable roof and it needs to be downtown where it will help generate business growth. Something that has never happened in Orchard Park the entire 40 years the Ralph has been there. Buffalo cannot afford to mess up this golden opportunity to flood South Buffalo and the waterfront with new cash and development. Time for Buffalo to truly be that City on the rise, and anew stadium in Buffalo is key to that continued development Great. Nobody who works for a living will be able to afford the tickets. Super. Did we not just spend $130MM on upgrades?? Would you really spend hundreds of millions on more renovations on RWS when you are building a new stadium in 5 years? After taking a long, hard look at the 'upgrades', I cannot for the life of me see where $130 million went.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Can a new stadium be built without PSLs? PSLS seem like a way to line the NFL pockets for nothing to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Can a new stadium be built without PSLs? PSLS seem like a way to line the NFL pockets for nothing to me?PSL's stay with the team not the league. Can the new stadium be built without them? Yes, but I would expect some (maybe $200M) off the top of my head. Then probably $300M from the state and $300M in private money. Something like that would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 After taking a long, hard look at the 'upgrades', I cannot for the life of me see where $130 million went....I would venture that half that probably was labor cost. So 65 million on concrete and paint for the most part, other than the new store out front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I would venture that half that probably was labor cost. So 65 million on concrete and paint for the most part, other than the new store out front. Exactly. People were expecting all of the work to be external and easily visible, but the plumbing alone was an absolute nightmare that they were working on right up to (and even through, I believe) the preseason games. It's the unseen changes that add up the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) PSL's stay with the team not the league. Can the new stadium be built without them? Yes, but I would expect some (maybe $200M) off the top of my head. Then probably $300M from the state and $300M in private money. Something like that would be my guess. How much from the city of Buffalo? Minneapolis kicked in $150 .million for the Vikings stadium Edited February 26, 2015 by Hammered a Lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) How much from the city of Buffalo? Minneapolis kicked in $150 .million for the Vikings stadiumI used the "state" as the generic government entity. I don't know how that will all breakdown. My guess is that Pegula had some assurances from Schumer and Cuomo prior to purchasing the team. It could come at a more local level (city or county). $300M in government money is the # in my head though. Edited February 26, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I used the "state" as the generic government entity. I don't know how that will all breakdown. My guess is that Pegula had some assurances from Schumer and Cuomo prior to purchasing the team. It could come at a more local level (city or county). $300M in government money is the & in my head though. There was talk that Jacobs was willing to fund a significant portion of the stadium costs. I assume that is quid pro quo for the concession rights for the facility (all events). Does that also include naming rights or is that part of the negotiatin discussion? When Pegula won the bid it appeared that he was negotiating against himself and that he over bid to knock the competition out of the water and to guaranette that he was going to gain the franchise. In hindsight if he could have won the bid with a $1-1.2 B then he would have been in a much better position to finance a larger portion of a new stadium and have less potential resistance from the public when the stadium debate is in full force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 There was talk that Jacobs was willing to fund a significant portion of the stadium costs. I assume that is quid pro quo for the concession rights for the facility (all events). Does that also include naming rights or is that part of the negotiatin discussion? When Pegula won the bid it appeared that he was negotiating against himself and that he over bid to knock the competition out of the water and to guaranette that he was going to gain the franchise. In hindsight if he could have won the bid with a $1-1.2 B then he would have been in a much better position to finance a larger portion of a new stadium and have less potential resistance from the public when the stadium debate is in full force. That would be part of the negotiation but one can assume that naming rights may be a part of it. A naming rights deal is probably $5-$15M a year (mostly $8-$12m). I would assume that Jacobs contribution probably comes with naming right and concession rights and is probably a $150M of that $300m of private money. I have no idea what the concession split will be but that can be negotiated to either raise or lower his initial investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Bah, lets just expand the Buffalo and Toronto systems until they are interconnected. It wouldn't be that expensive Since when does Buffalo have a "subway system?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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