Too many crab legs for Winston?(update: pro day info)

[Gugny]

The GM who drafts this moron should be fired the next day.

[Kirby Jackson]

This has Jamarcus Winston written all over it....

Exactly!!

[Gugny]

 

Meh...I've heard that line so many times. Might he be a good QB? Sure. Worth a top-5 pick to a team needing a QB? Sure.

'Special'? I won't hold my breath. Vick, Young and Newtown were all supposed to be 'special' too.

 

Winston will = Vick and Young, IMO. I still think Newton will have a better-than-average career when it's all said and done.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Reading a defense takes intelligence, instincts and hard work. If not sure you can teach any of those traits. I'm not saying that JW doesn't possess some or all of them already, but that's the evaluation Tampa Bay and others need to make.

 

 

One of the major pluses for Winston is that, by the time he was playing in High School, he already had an almost pro-level understanding of defenses and being able to read them, as well as completely understanding offenses.

 

He had (or probably still has) notebooks upon notebooks full of plays, defenses, and information, that he wrote himself.

 

It's almost to a "Rainman" type level. Which brings me to another point. I think the kid might be on the spectrum. It would explain his football intelligence, AND his seeming complete lack of self awareness with his off-field stuff. I dont mean for that to necessarily be a knock, and definitely dont mean it to be an insult. But there has always been something about the way he carried himself that was... off. Going back to interviews he did as a freshman/sophomore, before the rape stuff, and the crablegs, and the cafeteria table, etc. Just the way he speaks was always... off. I dunno. Maybe Im making it up.

Winston will = Vick and Young, IMO. I still think Newton will have a better-than-average career when it's all said and done.

I dont think you are correctly remembering Michael Vick's early playing career if you are lumping him in with Young.

 

He set a number of records, lead his team to the playoffs (and some playoff wins), and contributed heavily to the Falcons winning records of those days. If he had ever bothered to actually learn a playbook, who knows how good he could have been. But he definitely was NOT a bust.

 

Vick had about 3 amazing seasons, mixed in with a few others that were cut short by injury. If Winston = Vick, and TB can get the same 3 seasons out of him, then he is definitely worth the pick in this draft (where other top talent is scarce).

Edited February 15, 2015 by DrDareustein

[BarleyNY]

The Bucs have to pick Winston. This league is so QB driven that even with the character issues, you have to roll the dice.

You cannot be the team remembered for picking Sam Bowie when Jordan is still on the board.

Agreed. It's virtually a certainty that TB picks Winston first overall. The upside of him as a player, their need at QB, the importance of the QB position and even his popularity in FL make it as close to a lock as possible. It's less certain than Indy picking Luck, but not by much.

 

That's not to say that he is a sure thing or that his off the field garbage isn't a concern. He isn't and it certainly is. He's a very, very good on the field prospect however. If his character was on par with Mariotta's there would be no doubt of him going first overall. The media would play it up like they did with Luck and RG3, but there really wouldn't be a question in serious circles just like there wasn't with them.

 

People can compare and debate Mariotta's and Winston's on-field abilities, skill sets, character and whatever else they'd like, but in this case it doesn't matter because Tampa Bay is the team picking first overall. The downside associated with not taking Winston is far greater than the downside of picking him up and having him bust. Tampa Bay fans would riot if they passed on Winston and Mariotta (the only other player that they really can take at one) would be forever compared to him. Unfairly too. Mariotta would never get a fair shake there unless he absolutely lit it up and Winston busted completely. But that would take a lot of time - years - and it would be very ugly in the meantime. Winston, on the other hand, will get a huge pass from that fanbase.

 

Barring something major happening - which would mean a huge Winston screw up or revelation - it is a certainty he goes 1 overall to Tampa.

Edited February 15, 2015 by BarleyNY

[Gugny]

One of the major pluses for Winston is that, by the time he was playing in High School, he already had an almost pro-level understanding of defenses and being able to read them, as well as completely understanding offenses.

 

He had (or probably still has) notebooks upon notebooks full of plays, defenses, and information, that he wrote himself.

 

It's almost to a "Rainman" type level. Which brings me to another point. I think the kid might be on the spectrum. It would explain his football intelligence, AND his seeming complete lack of self awareness with his off-field stuff. I dont mean for that to necessarily be a knock, and definitely dont mean it to be an insult. But there has always been something about the way he carried himself that was... off. Going back to interviews he did as a freshman/sophomore, before the rape stuff, and the crablegs, and the cafeteria table, etc. Just the way he speaks was always... off. I dunno. Maybe Im making it up.

 

I dont think you are correctly remembering Michael Vick's early playing career if you are lumping him in with Young.

 

He set a number of records, lead his team to the playoffs (and some playoff wins), and contributed heavily to the Falcons winning records of those days. If he had ever bothered to actually learn a playbook, who knows how good he could have been. But he definitely was NOT a bust.

 

Vick had about 3 amazing seasons, mixed in with a few others that were cut short by injury. If Winston = Vick, and TB can get the same 3 seasons out of him, then he is definitely worth the pick in this draft (where other top talent is scarce).

I do remember and I will respectfully disagree. Vick lived by the broken play because he was too stupid to read defenses and had no accuracy throwing the ball. It's simply not sustainable and has been proven, time and time again, that it will win you some games but never get you far.

 

QBs like that (generally "dumb") have never succeeded in the NFL (they make awesome college QBs), nor will they. I remember a very good Falcons team underachieving because of Vick's limitations. And I remember everyone thinking the Falcons got as far as they did because of Vick, while I always thought they'd have gone further with a real QB.

 

So if TB wants an exciting offense with limited success - oh, and a lot of tix/merch sales - then, yes, picking Winston will be worth it. That's what Vick and Young were able to achieve for ATL and TEN. If they want to build a legitimately great football team, then they should pass on him, in my opinion.

[DrDawkinstein]

I do remember and I will respectfully disagree. Vick lived by the broken play because he was too stupid to read defenses and had no accuracy throwing the ball. It's simply not sustainable and has been proven, time and time again, that it will win you some games but never get you far.

 

QBs like that (generally "dumb") have never succeeded in the NFL (they make awesome college QBs), nor will they. I remember a very good Falcons team underachieving because of Vick's limitations. And I remember everyone thinking the Falcons got as far as they did because of Vick, while I always thought they'd have gone further with a real QB.

 

So if TB wants an exciting offense with limited success - oh, and a lot of tix/merch sales - then, yes, picking Winston will be worth it. That's what Vick and Young were able to achieve for ATL and TEN. If they want to build a legitimately great football team, then they should pass on him, in my opinion.

Fair enough. I certainly would never argue that Vick did all he could to be the best at QB. My point was more that, despite his laziness with (not) learning the playbook, he still had the physical talent to make plays and lead his team to victories. Even though they won, it was never the way his coaches wanted to win. But he wasnt a total bust like Young, either.

[Gugny]

Fair enough. I certainly would never argue that Vick did all he could to be the best at QB. My point was more that, despite his laziness with (not) learning the playbook, he still had the physical talent to make plays and lead his team to victories. Even though they won, it was never the way his coaches wanted to win. But he wasnt a total bust like Young, either.

I will definitely agree that he wasn't a bust like Young. But I will also opine that QBs like him (Winston) are not worth 1st round picks.

[Dopey]

You can learn to read a defense, you can't unlearn stupid.

Sure you can.

[JohnC]

Exactly!!

Don't join WEO in this over the top assessment of Winston in his comparison to JaMarcuss. Winston is going to be the first pick in the draft, and it certainly won't happen because his situation is anywhere near the LSU qb.

 

Are there character questions? Absolutely. I have my doubts about him because of his repeatingly troublesome behavior. But from a football standpoint there isn't anything you can't like. He is as football ready as they come. He certainly isn't in the Luck category who is a generational qb. But when considering his strengths and weaknesses he is as pro ready as they come.

 

As much as Winston has gotten into trouble (not counting the sexual issue) the serial incidents are in the mild category. What is telling in his favor is that his teammates like him and respond to him. His college coach has coached him hard and has not been afraid to put him in his place. His response is to accept the criticism and learn from the stern coaching. That tells you that he is not in the RGIII category who doesn't respond well to coaching. In fact diva RGIII has reacted by sabotaging his coaches.

[Dopey]

I will definitely agree that he wasn't a bust like Young. But I will also opine that QBs like him (Winston) are not worth 1st round picks.

I think you are in the minority, by a lot. A Heisman winner, BCS champion, led many comebacks this year when we thought they were out of it, lost 1 game in two seasons and was by anyone's account the main reason FSU had that remarkable run in his two seasons. He knows how to play the position as well as anyone I've seen in my time watching football. He's up there with Luck as far as football knowledge for a QB. Yes, he was an immature college student, but he's still a first round talent. Young or Russell were not even close. JMO.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Dopey

[Beef Jerky]

The GM who drafts this moron should be fired the next day.

The GM that doesnt draft him should be fired.

[Kirby Jackson]

Don't join WEO in this over the top assessment of Winston in his comparison to JaMarcuss. Winston is going to be the first pick in the draft, and it certainly won't happen because his situation is anywhere near the LSU qb.

 

Are there character questions? Absolutely. I have my doubts about him because of his repeatingly troublesome behavior. But from a football standpoint there isn't anything you can't like. He is as football ready as they come. He certainly isn't in the Luck category who is a generational qb. But when considering his strengths and weaknesses he is as pro ready as they come.

 

As much as Winston has gotten into trouble (not counting the sexual issue) the serial incidents are in the mild category. What is telling in his favor is that his teammates like him and respond to him. His college coach has coached him hard and has not been afraid to put him in his place. His response is to accept the criticism and learn from the stern coaching. That tells you that he is not in the RGIII category who doesn't respond well to coaching. In fact diva RGIII has reacted by sabotaging his coaches.

Jameis to me is a smarter Jamarcus with more character issues. If that picture is an indication than he is working about as hard as Jamarcus did leading up to the draft.

 

I've seen a ton of Jameis and don't feel like the rest of the people here. He's a 1st round prospect with a lot of questions IMO. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he fails. In the Bills situation I would take him but he is not a generational guy to me.

[JohnC]

Jameis to me is a smarter Jamarcus with more character issues. If that picture is an indication than he is working about as hard as Jamarcus did leading up to the draft.

 

I've seen a ton of Jameis and don't feel like the rest of the people here. He's a 1st round prospect with a lot of questions IMO. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he fails. In the Bills situation I would take him but he is not a generational guy to me.

Who made the claim that he is a generational qb prospect? No one.

 

You are putting too much stock in a picture. The qb coach he is working with is not a soft touch. He forces his clients to work hard. No one who has doubts about him can be criticized. The player put himself in a less than appealing situation. So he has earned the doubts about him.

 

This year Winston played with a below average offense compared to the prior year. He elevated that team. Without him the Seminole's would n't be ranked in the top 20. He made a big difference because he knows how to play. For me if he was available I would take him.

 

I'm not going on a limb by saying that as the evaluation of prospects advances he will solidfy his top ranking as a first round pick. I'm not saying he is the best player in the draft but I am saying that he is worthy of being the first selection for a team that needs a qb.

 

On a side note: I would have no qualms about the Bills picking up Josh McCown, the qb the Bucs cut. He would be a good bridge qb for us who would allow us to be a fringe playoff team.

[Kirby Jackson]

Who made the claim that he is a generational qb prospect? No one.

 

You are putting too much stock in a picture. The qb coach he is working with is not a soft touch. He forces his clients to work hard. No one who has doubts about him can be criticized. The player put himself in a less than appealing situation. So he has earned the doubts about him.

 

This year Winston played with a below average offense compared to the prior year. He elevated that team. Without him the Seminole's would n't be ranked in the top 20. He made a big difference because he knows how to play. For me if he was available I would take him.

 

I'm not going on a limb by saying that as the evaluation of prospects advances he will solidfy his top ranking as a first round pick. I'm not saying he is the best player in the draft but I am saying that he is worthy of being the first selection for a team that needs a qb.

 

On a side note: I would have no qualms about the Bills picking up Josh McCown, the qb the Bucs cut. He would be a good bridge qb for us who would allow us to be a fringe playoff team.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be picked first. He is more Blake Bortles to me than Andrew Luck. He's big and has a big arm but his decision making was poor this year. He still had Greene and O'Leary as targets. They've recruited well and had a solid running game. FSU was not a good team this year. They found ways to win and then got mauled by a decent Oregon team who in turn got mauled by OSU.

 

If I were Tampa I would take Jameis or Mariota still. You have to try to get your QB but they are both buyer beware type of guys.

 

In terms of McCown I don't hate him. He feels like a better option than Sanchez or some of the other guys mentioned. I'd be okay with him as a stopgap.

[Captain Hindsight]

I think it the Bucs pass on Winston they are stupid. I think this kid is going to be special.

I think he will be good. But I also think he needs to get out of Florida and his friends

[YoloinOhio]

Jameis to me is a smarter Jamarcus with more character issues. If that picture is an indication than he is working about as hard as Jamarcus did leading up to the draft.

 

I've seen a ton of Jameis and don't feel like the rest of the people here. He's a 1st round prospect with a lot of questions IMO. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he fails. In the Bills situation I would take him but he is not a generational guy to me.

I think he could end up like a Geno Smith. Too many INTs and poor decision making in college. It could be even worse with NFL DCs and players. I think he got bailed out a lot by his teammates being athletically superior to most of their opponents. He still is the best QB prospect in the draft IMO but not can't-miss by any means.

[Doc]

The picture means little. I still think he's too dumb for the NFL, both on the field and off. But I guess we'll find out in time.

 

BTW, he and Mariota are working out for the Combine together. Thought that was pretty cool/interesting.

[Fadingpain]

For me, Winston is precisely like Cam Newton. Not in terms of their size or approach to the game or things like that, but in the following sense.

 

No team will ever win anything that matters with either as their starting QB.

 

I realize this is not a thread about Cam Newton, but if you think that guy is every going to lift his team above the best in the game and take down Tom Brady or Rodgers and guys like that when it matters most in the big game, you are insane.

 

Winston is the same.

 

Both are "nice" QBs who will do their share of winning in the league and make their share of nice plays...but both will abandon you at the altar when it matters most.

 

Guys like that are worthless, if your objective is to win a Superbowl.

 

If just just want to win some games, have a "nice" season and bow out of the playoffs in the first round, both would be great choices.

[Mr. WEO]

One of the major pluses for Winston is that, by the time he was playing in High School, he already had an almost pro-level understanding of defenses and being able to read them, as well as completely understanding offenses.

 

 

 

Yeah, I keep reading this and yet this season he's barely getting past ACC teams--and then he got his dick handed to him by the defense of Oregon.

 

And, as it was his only loss of his career--he was completely losing his s**t on the sideline; crying, yelling at his coach (who threatened to bench him after this).

 

I can't think of any very intelligent college QB who acted so stupidly off the field. So, I really don't by that he is very intelligent. It's all part of the mythology his slimy coach kept putting out there.