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x-Jets asst Westhoff: ‘s—load’ of Belichick Manipulations


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Enron had extraordinarily tragic results and ruined, absolutely ruined, peoples lives. Please tell me you don't compare football to war..

 

I'm with ya. The Patriots are sneaky and cheaters. I just don't like the Enron comparison.

 

That's more than a little over the top of you. He is clearly comparing the way the two organizations are/were run and not in any way comparing the weight of the resultant consequences. To have done so wouldn't even make sense.

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Its... RIDICULOUS.

 

Point blank: Patriots "fans" didn't exist until 2001. They have no perspective on the history of the game--the players that came before, the dynasties that existed, and the level of respect names like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Don Shula, Troy Aikman, and any other football player that won 2 or 3 Super Bowls carries. And I'm not bringing those specific players up because they have been critical of the Patriots--I'm bringing them up because they are respected by fans of teams across the league. There's not a poster on this board who doesn't respect Jerry Rice. When I meet 49ers fans, I don't hate their team--nor do I particularly hate the Steelers, the Cowboys, or even the Dolphins for that matter. I want the Bills to beat them, sure, but I can appreciate what Dan Marino meant to the league, and the legacy he left.

 

Patriots fans are missing the point.

 

They have "gamed" the system. They've now been caught cheating. Twice.

They don't have, and never will have, the level of respect (from real football fans, analysts, and former players) that every other sports dynasty has ever been given. Sure sure, theres the resident Pats defenders on this board that can post a quote from some modern-day, sissified QB that will defend the Pats: but that's only because they don't want to generate bad PR and hurt their endorsements. Not everyone wants to be Richard Sherman.

 

And THAT, to me, is the point. What's the reason to even watch sports if you can't enjoy it and talk about it with your friends/casual acquaintances, people you meet in the air port, business connections, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, the Pats fans that say something along the lines of "I've been a pats fan since 76 and this is embarrassing as hell," I do respect, because they get it.

 

But this "internet era" fan? The one that thinks every person in America who is disgusted with the Patriots gaming the system is just a "hater"? It's maddening. No sh*t we're haters--and proud of it.

 

Yes, I do hate that the team cheats, and makes it so what I'm watching on tv becomes questionable.

Yes, I do hate knowing that Buffalo has been in the same division as these crooks during this run, and so their tainted accomplishments have affected our organization. Crazy? What if we swept the Pats one of the Jauron years--that would be 9 wins. This playoff streak might have been over long ago.

Yes, I do hate that once the Brady/Beli ship sails, these "fans" are going to dig their bruins hats out of the closet and be non-existent for the next 15-20 years.

No, I am not jealous of what the Patriots have done.

 

Amen Johnny, amen.

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Enron had extraordinarily tragic results and ruined, absolutely ruined, peoples lives. Please tell me you don't compare football to war..

 

I'm with ya. The Patriots are sneaky and cheaters. I just don't like the Enron comparison.

 

Yeah, everyone knows this is more like ISIS. Brady told us so.

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Its... RIDICULOUS.

 

Point blank: Patriots "fans" didn't exist until 2001. They have no perspective on the history of the game--the players that came before, the dynasties that existed, and the level of respect names like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Don Shula, Troy Aikman, and any other football player that won 2 or 3 Super Bowls carries. And I'm not bringing those specific players up because they have been critical of the Patriots--I'm bringing them up because they are respected by fans of teams across the league. There's not a poster on this board who doesn't respect Jerry Rice. When I meet 49ers fans, I don't hate their team--nor do I particularly hate the Steelers, the Cowboys, or even the Dolphins for that matter. I want the Bills to beat them, sure, but I can appreciate what Dan Marino meant to the league, and the legacy he left.

 

Patriots fans are missing the point.

 

They have "gamed" the system. They've now been caught cheating. Twice.

They don't have, and never will have, the level of respect (from real football fans, analysts, and former players) that every other sports dynasty has ever been given. Sure sure, theres the resident Pats defenders on this board that can post a quote from some modern-day, sissified QB that will defend the Pats: but that's only because they don't want to generate bad PR and hurt their endorsements. Not everyone wants to be Richard Sherman.

 

And THAT, to me, is the point. What's the reason to even watch sports if you can't enjoy it and talk about it with your friends/casual acquaintances, people you meet in the air port, business connections, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, the Pats fans that say something along the lines of "I've been a pats fan since 76 and this is embarrassing as hell," I do respect, because they get it.

 

But this "internet era" fan? The one that thinks every person in America who is disgusted with the Patriots gaming the system is just a "hater"? It's maddening. No sh*t we're haters--and proud of it.

 

Yes, I do hate that the team cheats, and makes it so what I'm watching on tv becomes questionable.

Yes, I do hate knowing that Buffalo has been in the same division as these crooks during this run, and so their tainted accomplishments have affected our organization. Crazy? What if we swept the Pats one of the Jauron years--that would be 9 wins. This playoff streak might have been over long ago.

Yes, I do hate that once the Brady/Beli ship sails, these "fans" are going to dig their bruins hats out of the closet and be non-existent for the next 15-20 years.

No, I am not jealous of what the Patriots have done.

 

Johnny, thank you. You have perfectly summed up everything I've wanted to say about Patriots fans.

 

I will throw two points at you...

 

1. I will still always hate the Cowboys, but this stems from something personal. Yes, the two Super Bowls have a lot to do with it, but as a kid in the 70s, I was on the Steelers side of that rivalry. I liked the Steelers almost more than the Bills for a long time. But what drives me to this continued hatred is a guy I used to work for a little over 10 years ago. He's a big-time Cowboys fan and can be a very arrogant, obnoxious prick. The moment he found out I was a Bills fan, the digs and shots at me and my team didn't end. I left that job in 2005 (for other reasons), but now that he's a Facebook friend of mine, I still don't hear the end of it.

 

That said, I will always have the ultimate respect for Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, Tony Dorsett, Tom Landry, and even (*shudder*) Emmitt Smith. Those guys played/coached the game the right way...with respect.

 

2. You forgot to mention that when the Brady/Belichick era is over, these fans won't just pull out their Bruins hats, they'll pull out the hats/jerseys of whichever Boston team is winning...even if it's the Celtics. Red Sox/Patriots/Bruins fans go into hiding when the team is bad. This is the culture of Boston-area sports fanatics.

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Its... RIDICULOUS.

 

Point blank: Patriots "fans" didn't exist until 2001. They have no perspective on the history of the game--the players that came before, the dynasties that existed, and the level of respect names like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Don Shula, Troy Aikman, and any other football player that won 2 or 3 Super Bowls carries. And I'm not bringing those specific players up because they have been critical of the Patriots--I'm bringing them up because they are respected by fans of teams across the league. There's not a poster on this board who doesn't respect Jerry Rice. When I meet 49ers fans, I don't hate their team--nor do I particularly hate the Steelers, the Cowboys, or even the Dolphins for that matter. I want the Bills to beat them, sure, but I can appreciate what Dan Marino meant to the league, and the legacy he left.

 

Patriots fans are missing the point.

 

They have "gamed" the system. They've now been caught cheating. Twice.

They don't have, and never will have, the level of respect (from real football fans, analysts, and former players) that every other sports dynasty has ever been given. Sure sure, theres the resident Pats defenders on this board that can post a quote from some modern-day, sissified QB that will defend the Pats: but that's only because they don't want to generate bad PR and hurt their endorsements. Not everyone wants to be Richard Sherman.

 

And THAT, to me, is the point. What's the reason to even watch sports if you can't enjoy it and talk about it with your friends/casual acquaintances, people you meet in the air port, business connections, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, the Pats fans that say something along the lines of "I've been a pats fan since 76 and this is embarrassing as hell," I do respect, because they get it.

 

But this "internet era" fan? The one that thinks every person in America who is disgusted with the Patriots gaming the system is just a "hater"? It's maddening. No sh*t we're haters--and proud of it.

 

Yes, I do hate that the team cheats, and makes it so what I'm watching on tv becomes questionable.

Yes, I do hate knowing that Buffalo has been in the same division as these crooks during this run, and so their tainted accomplishments have affected our organization. Crazy? What if we swept the Pats one of the Jauron years--that would be 9 wins. This playoff streak might have been over long ago.

Yes, I do hate that once the Brady/Beli ship sails, these "fans" are going to dig their bruins hats out of the closet and be non-existent for the next 15-20 years.

No, I am not jealous of what the Patriots have done.

Except they haven't been caught cheating twice. The NFL hasn't even said how many balls and by how much. It's all leaked reports supposedly, yet every day there is a new one contradicting the one before.

 

Reality is you have ZERO factual information because no one outside the NFL themselves knows anything at this point. All you are hearing is unnamed sources who keep getting proved wrong.

 

First this was all because D'Qwell supposedly intercepted a pass and complained something was wrong with the football. WRONG. He came out and said he never noticed anything wrong with the football, he just wanted to keep it as a souvenir and took it to the sidelines.

 

Then it was because this was all because the Ravens were tipping off the Colts and complaining to the NFL about suspicious balls. WRONG again. Jim Harbaugh publicly stated that at no point have they ever been suspicious of the balls air pressure or about manipulation of the air pressure.

 

Then it was 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI too low. Now it's supposedly just that one ball and the others were only slightly too low.

 

You see it's false info over and over again. No one knows anything and as more info comes out it seems less and less severe as all the media gossip girls have been spewing.

 

So as of now, they haven't been caught cheating twice. And the fact this story is so blown out of proportion is getting annoying as the media is reporting every little false rumor for ratings over and over again.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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Except they haven't been caught cheating twice. The NFL hasn't even said how many balls and by how much. It's all leaked reports supposedly, yet every day there is a new one contradicting the one before.

 

Reality is you have ZERO factual information because no one outside the NFL themselves knows anything at this point. All you are hearing is unnamed sources who keep getting proved wrong.

 

First this was all because D'Qwell supposedly intercepted a pass and complained something was wrong with the football. WRONG. He came out and said he never noticed anything wrong with the football, he just wanted to keep it as a souvenir and took it to the sidelines.

 

Then it was because this was all because the Ravens were tipping off the Colts and complaining to the NFL about suspicious balls. WRONG again. Jim Harbaugh publicly stated that at no point have they ever been suspicious of the balls air pressure or about manipulation of the air pressure.

 

Then it was 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI too low. Now it's supposedly just that one ball and the others were only slightly too low.

 

You see it's false info over and over again. No one knows anything and as more info comes out it seems less and less severe as all the media gossip girls have been spewing.

 

So as of now, they haven't been caught cheating twice. And the fact this story is so blown out of proportion is getting annoying as the media is reporting every little false rumor for ratings over and over again.

ive echoed it for a week now, but we really dont know much about this yet. seems like an easy spot to wait and see instead of rush to condemn..... if it proves to be a first class scandal, let them have it - but there is plenty of reason to not be sure at this point.

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Except they haven't been caught cheating twice. The NFL hasn't even said how many balls and by how much. It's all leaked reports supposedly, yet every day there is a new one contradicting the one before.

 

Reality is you have ZERO factual information because no one outside the NFL themselves knows anything at this point. All you are hearing is unnamed sources who keep getting proved wrong.

 

First this was all because D'Qwell supposedly intercepted a pass and complained something was wrong with the football. WRONG. He came out and said he never noticed anything wrong with the football, he just wanted to keep it as a souvenir and took it to the sidelines.

 

Then it was because this was all because the Ravens were tipping off the Colts and complaining to the NFL about suspicious balls. WRONG again. Jim Harbaugh publicly stated that at no point have they ever been suspicious of the balls air pressure or about manipulation of the air pressure.

 

Then it was 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI too low. Now it's supposedly just that one ball and the others were only slightly too low.

 

You see it's false info over and over again. No one knows anything and as more info comes out it seems less and less severe as all the media gossip girls have been spewing.

 

So as of now, they haven't been caught cheating twice. And the fact this story is so blown out of proportion is getting annoying as the media is reporting every little false rumor for ratings over and over again.

Good post. As for Westhoff, it would have been helpful if he listed specifics instead of making vague, general accusations.

Edited by dave mcbride
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Good post. As for Westhoff, it would have been helpful if he listed specifics instead of making vague, general accusations.

having gotten to read the article now instead of the cutoff quote, i see the OP cut off this lead in:

 

Did they do it? I honestly dont think they did. To tell you the truth, Im not so sure theyre not sitting around today thinking, I wish wed thought this up, knowing them."

 

which is kind of manipulative of the OP to cut, i suppose.

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having gotten to read the article now instead of the cutoff quote, i see the OP cut off this lead in:

 

Did they do it? I honestly dont think they did. To tell you the truth, Im not so sure theyre not sitting around today thinking, I wish wed thought this up, knowing them."

 

which is kind of manipulative of the OP to cut, i suppose.

Thanks!

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having gotten to read the article now instead of the cutoff quote, i see the OP cut off this lead in:

 

Did they do it? I honestly dont think they did. To tell you the truth, Im not so sure theyre not sitting around today thinking, I wish wed thought this up, knowing them."

 

which is kind of manipulative of the OP to cut, i suppose.

Yet Westhoff is saying i think they are innocent here, but they are way worse than you can even imagine. That's not exoneration. That's saying they are 4-5-6x cheaters and not 2. You can't cherry pick his comments either.

 

I do appreciate you and Danny McBride being the voice of caution in this entire ordeal, even if I myself am carrying a pitchfork. I'm way more upset about Bellichick saying we always err on the side of caution than the actual deflating of the balls. I also don't really believe the fumbling element to be a result of this deflating thing. I doubt they have been deflating balls 2 pounds for 8 years.

Edited by Kelly the Dog
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I was with you until you got to here:

 

 

Not buying that

 

I'd be curious to hear your reasoning for why you won't buy that.

 

I started to lose any jealousy when spygate came into view, and now that they're still finding ways to bend/break the rules, I'm not jealous of them. I actually feel bad for them that they've had to stoop to this level to help guarantee wins.

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Yet Westhoff is saying i think they are innocent here, but they are way worse than you can even imagine. That's not exoneration. That's saying they are 4-5-6x cheaters and not 2. You can't cherry pick his comments either.

 

I do appreciate you and Danny McBride being the voice of caution in this entire ordeal, even if I myself am carrying a pitchfork. I'm way more upset about Bellichick saying we always err on the side of caution than the actual deflating of the balls. I also don't really believe the fumbling element to be a result of this deflating thing. I doubt they have been deflating balls 2 pounds for 8 years.

oh, i understand - i figured the "and then some" part was quoted plenty in the thread already. it was just a bit obnoxious to read "i dont mean to stick up for them" and then have the rest cut out. he definitely implies more is going on, whatever that is, but in this instance seems to say its a non story for the deflation. i didnt mean to come across as absolving them of everything ever....

 

ill agree that the pats sound ridiculous at this point. and that they probably push the edge everywhere they can. including over the edge sometimes.

Edited by NoSaint
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ive echoed it for a week now, but we really dont know much about this yet. seems like an easy spot to wait and see instead of rush to condemn..... if it proves to be a first class scandal, let them have it - but there is plenty of reason to not be sure at this point.

100% agree

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