Bills Power structure

[Thrivefourfive]

Personnel departments are split between college and pro staffs. It is easier to judge a player vs. a level of competition than a side of the ball. For example if someone were scouting Garrett Grayson and Brian Hoyer this offseason it would be really difficult to compare the play of the 2.

 

Absolutely. And I'm sure those guys specialize in specific positions and meet to coordinate their reportings. But is their a sure fire offensive mind at the head of this business that reports to Whaley?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Absolutely. And I'm sure those guys specialize in specific positions and meet to coordinate their reportings. But is their a sure fire offensive mind at the head of this business that reports to Whaley?

They actually specialize by region. This makes it easier for the scouts to see players.

[kota]

This is such a non-story it's funny. Doug is responsible for the roster period. He has to get input from Rex on what kinds of players he needs for offense/defense/ST. It's in Whaley's best interest to listen to the coach, do the scouting, and then give Rex Options to pick from. It's in Rex's best interest to use the information given to him by Doug to make hte best decisions for the team.

 

The relationship between Whaley and Rex is better off than with Marrone because they have similar mindsets. Run the ball, Good defense. Marrone wanted to be more like New Orleans but didn't have a QB to do it and failed to develop one into the QB he needed.

 

If anything Whaley/Russ/Nix missed the boat on their first coaching search. They are fortunate that Marrone walked out because he looks like the idiot. Doug Whaley has a new lease on his job. They say most GM's get a chance to pick 2 coaches before they are canned.

 

I am glad that Whaley did most of the coaching search and interviews this time. He didn't have to deal with Nix and Pegula is willing to listen to Doug because he is the only guy in the room.

 

The next few years are soley on Doug's decisions.

 

I am personally happy it's that way.

[yungmack]

 

From your link:

"Behind the scenes, things have been festering as well, sources said, with the blow-up between team officials shortly before the end of the preseason and final cuts, within earshot of players, shocking many who witnessed it.

The incident began with Marrone, who sources said has had a strained relationship with director of player personnel Jim Monos from their time together in New Orleans, getting into a loud exchange with Monos in which the men were cursing at each other to the point where others noticed ("they were more or less MFing each other," is how one source put it). General manager Doug Whaley then intervened. The expletives continued and finally team president and acting owner Russ Brandon tried to defuse the situation by getting involved in an attempt to get all parties to "shut up," as one source put it. But that too escalated into more yelling and hollering, with Brandon and Marrone ultimately separated by their peers and Marrone, in earshot of players, making remarks along the lines of "go ahead and fire me," before order was restored and the team took the field for practice."

Rereading that, it's clear that it was Monos and not Whaley that Maroon was arguing with at first, then Brandon got a face full of bellyache. To me, it all points to the the coach being devious, mean, and spiteful. I'm so glad he's gone because he didn't want to be here. Ryan does and he's all in. That's good enough for me.

I think the Pegulas have matters firmly in hand, they have a good vision for the franchise and they have their people in place to run the show. Rex only wants to coach. That's all he's ever said he wants to do. Whaley is the man in charge of finding talent and bringing it here.

I choose to believe what I heard in the press conference:

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Rex_Ryan_Introductory_Press_Conference/3794b0e4-0057-4d1a-a2e4-9b9ed5075871

 

I believe it was conclusively shown that Monos wasn't even present when he supposedly had a heated argument with Marrone. Was it Rodak or LaCanfora who got this all screwed up?

[Rockinon]

Brandon reports to Terry

 

Whaley reports to Terry

 

Rex reports to Terry

 

Doesn't get any simpler than that. All of them will work together and in all likelyhood will occasionally disagree. Nothing wrong with that. Don't understand why people think this is a disorganized mess. There is one person at the top that makes a final decision if two parties cannot resolve an issue on their own. I have no problem with this structure at all.

[BillsVet]

This is such a non-story it's funny. Doug is responsible for the roster period. He has to get input from Rex on what kinds of players he needs for offense/defense/ST. It's in Whaley's best interest to listen to the coach, do the scouting, and then give Rex Options to pick from. It's in Rex's best interest to use the information given to him by Doug to make hte best decisions for the team.

 

The relationship between Whaley and Rex is better off than with Marrone because they have similar mindsets. Run the ball, Good defense. Marrone wanted to be more like New Orleans but didn't have a QB to do it and failed to develop one into the QB he needed.

 

If anything Whaley/Russ/Nix missed the boat on their first coaching search. They are fortunate that Marrone walked out because he looks like the idiot. Doug Whaley has a new lease on his job. They say most GM's get a chance to pick 2 coaches before they are canned.

 

I am glad that Whaley did most of the coaching search and interviews this time. He didn't have to deal with Nix and Pegula is willing to listen to Doug because he is the only guy in the room.

 

The next few years are soley on Doug's decisions.

 

I am personally happy it's that way.

This isn't a case of whether people agree on defensive or offensive strategy. It's egos, and at the NFL level they tend to be pretty big. Besides, personnel is NOT a black and white topic given that both the GM and HC have a vested interest.

 

Doug Whaley lost responsibility in the new organizational chart because the HC doesn't report to him. And why should he? Rex is more successful as a HC than Whaley is as a GM. Making the experienced report to the relatively new GM makes zero sense.

[Kelly the Dog]

This isn't a case of whether people agree on defensive or offensive strategy. It's egos, and at the NFL level they tend to be pretty big. Besides, personnel is NOT a black and white topic given that both the GM and HC have a vested interest.

 

Doug Whaley lost responsibility in the new organizational chart because the HC doesn't report to him. And why should he? Rex is more successful as a HC than Whaley is as a GM. Making the experienced report to the relatively new GM makes zero sense.

I read where Marrone didn't have to report to Whaley either. Whaley didn't hire him. Nix and Brandon did. Marrone reported to his buddy Brandon. So Whaley didn't lose any power. Whaley is very powerful right now. Pegula loves him, and didn't give Rex any power over the roster, which is a huge plus and win for Whaley.

[eball]

I read where Marrone didn't have to report to Whaley either. Whaley didn't hire him. Nix and Brandon did. Marrone reported to his buddy Brandon. So Whaley didn't lose any power. Whaley is very powerful right now. Pegula loves him, and didn't give Rex any power over the roster, which is a huge plus and win for Whaley.

 

Precisely. If anything, Whaley has MORE power now than he did before -- he reports right to the owner instead of to the marketer!

[BobbyC81]

I actually think that they were pretty clear on how disputes will be settled. If it has to do with the 53 it's Whaley. If it's gameday its Rex. If it has to do with budget it's Russ. Where is the confusion?

 

The confusion will arise when Whaley acquires players that Ryan doesn't want. I agree that they should both be reporting to a football president or, as with most teams, the head coach reports to the GM. Optimally, you would want the GM and head coach to work together to evaluate available players and determine those that are the best fit.

 

Say the Bills are going to pursue a veteran QB and Whaley wants to get Cutler and Ryan wants Sanchez. Who makes the final decision? Is Pegula knowledgeable enough about football to make the call? Is he a great decision maker that could hear both sides and then make a decision?

[K-9]

9:35 on a Thursday morning. One Bills Drive.

 

Ryan: Terry, I think ______ would be a great QB in free agency for us.

 

Whaley: [Lots of stuff about Watkins, EJ, development, assessment]

 

Peg: Yeah, so...Rex, will _______ help us get back to the dance?

 

Ryan: Yup.

 

Peg: Doug, go get us ________.

I see no possibility for this kind of scenario. It's just highly unlikely that Whaley and Ryan could be so far apart on their opinions of whether or not a QB prospect could take them to the next level. More importantly, I can't see Whaley dismissing Ryan's opinion by talking up EJ as an alternative to the idea of looking for another competitor at the position. What you're really saying is that Whaley will defend his selection of Manuel to the exclusion of other alternatives. I just don't think he's that stupid or intractable.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well, it has been reported that Marrone didn't want to trade away the 2015 first round pick on a WR!

By whom, Shefter? You are the only one on the planet giving that blurb any credence at all. NOBODY in the building, including John Wawrow and other media representatives, recalls seeing Marrone storm out of the war room when Watkins was selected. NOBODY. Shefter is flat out making crap up to support his buddy.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

The confusion will arise when Whaley acquires players that Ryan doesn't want. I agree that they should both be reporting to a football president or, as with most teams, the head coach reports to the GM. Optimally, you would want the GM and head coach to work together to evaluate available players and determine those that are the best fit.

 

Say the Bills are going to pursue a veteran QB and Whaley wants to get Cutler and Ryan wants Sanchez. Who makes the final decision? Is Pegula knowledgeable enough about football to make the call? Is he a great decision maker that could hear both sides and then make a decision?

It's not that uncommon of a structure. KTD, listed the 10 teams or whatever with similar structures a week or so ago.

 

In your example the answer is Whaley. He builds the roster. The QB is obviously an extreme example because if they weren't in agreement in the guy or direction Rex wouldn't have been hired. Whoever the target(s) are it has already been discussed and agreed to. There aren't nearly as many "tiebreakers" as people think. The Bills have always been very collaborative when it comes to decision making. The decision is agreed to well before the transaction takes place. That was the weird thing about Marrone is that he wasn't always on the same page.

[217014170]

Not sure they are even thinking football czar at this point. It sounds like Terry was impressed with the way Russ and Doug handled the Marrone departure - did not panic and had a plan already in place. That is what good management does and is always ready to deal with. Within days they were on the interview trail - to look at everyone. Terry made it sound like the had a couple of possibilities in mind before the Rex interview - but Rex blew the roof off. It was significant that Terry indicated - "Doug was doing all the football stuff and Russ told me not to let him out of the building". They are all on the same page - I believe that and when it comes down to choice A or B - football wise -doug makes the call - but even Rex said - just keep drafting and fining players like you have in the past and we will be fine. I do not think that Doug is a hard headed " it's my decisions" type of person - as was the case with Marrone - and we see how well Marrone decision has worked out. So I am fine we have a young and energetic management team and coaching staff ( ( yes Rex is only in his early 50's) - let's let them take the ball and run with it.

Or the plan to replace Marrone had been in place longer than you think or has been made public. I stated in another thread that I think addressing the coaching staff was made priority one for Polian. Polian publicly endorsed Marrone for Coach of the Year consideration so rather than look like a hypocrite he respectfully declines the job. The best evidence for this is Marrone being declined extensions for he and his staff. Granted, this may have been a fishing expedition by Marrone to see where he and his staff stood. Basically, the best case scenario was he was going to be coaching for his job in 2015 and worst case he was not going to be coaching in Buffalo at all. How can anyone be shocked that Marrone chose to opt out? Wasn't that his best option?

It's not that uncommon of a structure. KTD, listed the 10 teams or whatever with similar structures a week or so ago.

 

In your example the answer is Whaley. He builds the roster. The QB is obviously an extreme example because if they weren't in agreement in the guy or direction Rex wouldn't have been hired. Whoever the target(s) are it has already been discussed and agreed to. There aren't nearly as many "tiebreakers" as people think. The Bills have always been very collaborative when it comes to decision making. The decision is agreed to well before the transaction takes place. That was the weird thing about Marrone is that he wasn't always on the same page.

"Always been very collaborative?" You really think John Butler wanted to sign Rob Johnson? You really think Wade Phillips (and the rest of North America) wanted to start Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie? There are a lot more where that came from.

 

I think there is a good likelihood that the team will be more collaborative in the future. I hope everyone has clear goals and roles and that they are held accountable for their performance.

[thewildrabbit]

By whom, Shefter? You are the only one on the planet giving that blurb any credence at all. NOBODY in the building, including John Wawrow and other media representatives, recalls seeing Marrone storm out of the war room when Watkins was selected. NOBODY. Shefter is flat out making crap up to support his buddy.

 

GO BILLS!!!

This account per ESPN Adam Schefter was carried by just about every sports site on the planet, and its per sources that were in the Bills draft room at the time. So, I'm not the only one giving credence to this report. I could link them for you if you like. I didn't as there are 30+.

 

If other media representatives were in the building than why didn't they refute the story by Schefter? If the account per Schefter was wrong then why wouldn't the Buffalo Bills front office refute or discredit the story in any way shape or form. Pretty sure Schefter has a solid reputation as an NFL news insider to even consider "making crap up" to support anyone. So, if anyone is making up crap...

[K-9]

This account per ESPN Adam Schefter was carried by just about every sports site on the planet, and its per sources that were in the Bills draft room at the time. So, I'm not the only one giving credence to this report. I could link them for you if you like. I didn't as there are 30+.

 

If other media representatives were in the building than why didn't they refute the story by Schefter? If the account per Schefter was wrong then why wouldn't the Buffalo Bills front office refute or discredit the story in any way shape or form. Pretty sure Schefter has a solid reputation as an NFL news insider to even consider "making crap up" to support anyone. So, if anyone is making up crap...

So thirty other outlets picked up the Shefter blurb (and that's all it was at the time all his ESPN Syracuse boys were circling the wagons for him) and it's the same as thirty different accounts of the draft room actions of Marrone? Wawrow already refuted it but that's beside the point since there is nothing to refute in the first place. You can't seriously think the Bills should have issued a refutation of their own, do you?

 

Don't you find it a bit odd that this "story" took 7 months to break? Seriously.

 

And yes, I don't think Shefter is beyond making up crap from time to time if it serves to further a narrative. And let's not act like Marrone and his agent weren't busy manufacturing a narrative after his opt out. They were in full-fledged damage control. And for good reason; look at the fallout since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thewildrabbit]

It's not that uncommon of a structure. KTD, listed the 10 teams or whatever with similar structures a week or so ago.

 

In your example the answer is Whaley. He builds the roster. The QB is obviously an extreme example because if they weren't in agreement in the guy or direction Rex wouldn't have been hired. Whoever the target(s) are it has already been discussed and agreed to. There aren't nearly as many "tiebreakers" as people think. The Bills have always been very collaborative when it comes to decision making. The decision is agreed to well before the transaction takes place. That was the weird thing about Marrone is that he wasn't always on the same page.

I'd like to see those ten teams, and I gotta wonder if any have a winning record or are drowning in dysfunction? Some of the teams mentioned by ESPN Miami, Jets, Falcons now have a similar structure like Buffalo now has in place. The teams I see always in the playoffs every year have a defined structure, and the brand new owner doesn't have the final say in football decisions.

 

So, it wasn't really a collaborative effort by the HC, GM, finance / marketing guy if the HC didn't always agree?

[thewildrabbit]

So thirty other outlets picked up the Shefter blurb (and that's all it was at the time all his ESPN Syracuse boys were circling the wagons for him) and it's the same as thirty different accounts of the draft room actions of Marrone? Wawrow already refuted it but that's beside the point since there is nothing to refute in the first place. You can't seriously think the Bills should have issued a refutation of their own, do you?

 

Don't you find it a bit odd that this "story" took 7 months to break? Seriously.

 

And yes, I don't think Shefter is beyond making up crap from time to time if it serves to further a narrative. And let's not act like Marrone and his agent weren't busy manufacturing a narrative after his opt out. They were in full-fledged damage control. And for good reason; look at the fallout since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Got a link to where Wawrow refuted the story, because I've never read about, as If I did I'd not even bring this up.

[Wayne Cubed]

I'd like to see those ten teams, and I gotta wonder if any have a winning record or are drowning in dysfunction? Some of the teams mentioned by ESPN Miami, Jets, Falcons now have a similar structure like Buffalo now has in place. The teams I see always in the playoffs every year have a defined structure, and the brand new owner doesn't have the final say in football decisions.

 

So, it wasn't really a collaborative effort by the HC, GM, finance / marketing guy if the HC didn't always agree?

 

Here ya go:

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/25/5343964/nfl-power-structures-who-really-runs-a-team

 

That's the Patriots*, Steelers, Jaguars, Chiefs, Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, 49ers(formally Harbaugh), Seahawks, Rams and now the Bills. All coaches report directly to the Owner. In some cases the coach has control over player personnel (Pats*, Chiefs, Seahawks and now Eagles) and in the others the GM is in control of the 53 man roster and the coach has input but is in charge of the 46.

 

The Jets, Falcons and Dolphins don't have a similar structure to the Bills at all.

 

As you can see there a plenty of successful teams in that mix, in fact the majority of them are.

[RealityCheck]

Now, Back in October we Bills fans thought we would be seeing a senior NFL adviser in the likes of Ron Wolf, Ernie Accorsi, or even Mike Holmgren.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749471/pegulas-looking-to-bring-on-a-consultant-to-help-with-bills-transition

 

Now none of this happened because the NY Jets hired Ron Wolf as an adviser (as Charley Casserly already hired by the Jets as senior adviser wasn't enough), and Holmgren didn't care to commit. The Bears hired Earnie Accorsi as their senior adviser.

 

-----------------------------

 

Now with those options off the table the new Bills owner must have reached out to Bill Polian. Then we heard that Bill Polian would be taking a job as the new football czar.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/12/buffalo_bills_will_hire_bill_polian_next_month_according_to_report.html

 

Bill Polian will be taking over as Bills team president/football czar but move may not be announced til late Jan, due to his commitments

— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) December 31, 2014

 

Terry Pegula wanted to hire Bill Polian as his czar, and then the idea for a team president of football operations went into the crap can after Marrone left. Mostly because as a parting shot St Doug told Polian that the people in the Bills FO were trashing him behind his back. (Gee, I wonder who that could have been?) The aftermath of this came out and the people in the FO shat themselves when they heard that Polian would have recommended hiring ex Charger GM AJ Smith. Which would have possibly removed Whaley entirely from the team, and moved Brandon permanently to the financial side. Then Polian mentioned he would have made changes to the scouting dept, and I can only think about how bad the offensive scouting has been the last two years.

 

Then we read of Terry Pegula doing all this behind Brandon's back http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/01/polian-confirms-that-bills-were-working-behind-brandons-back/

 

 

Brandon, Whaley convincing this new owner that he needs to be in command of his team just like the last owner was, and that is not the ideal situation I think most fans were looking for, as I think most wanted that football side czar- football side team president.

 

I know I wanted, and think most fans wanted to see a structure similar to the Ravens, Colts, et al. Like so many other successful teams in which the owner lets the football people make the decisions. Hence, now both Whaley, and Brandon stay in the loop for everything.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

"As was revealed by team president Russ Brandon during Wednesday’s news conference introducing Ryan as the Bills’ new coach, the Bills will operate under mostly the same system they had with their previous coach, Doug Marrone"

 

"All football decisions will be made by Coach and Doug Whaley,” Brandon said.

The only change from what was in place with Marrone is that Ryan will report directly to club owners Terry and Kim Pegula, as will Whaley and Brandon."

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/whaley-will-still-assemble-roster-20150114?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

But then i read this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/doug-whaley-not-worried-about-potential-power-struggle-with-rex-ryan/

 

 

From Whaley, “That’s an interesting question. I think the way we look at it is there’s going to be disagreements, and you want that. You want internal debate, external unity. Does it go to Terry? Does it go to Kim? Does it go to Russ?

 

Jeez, It looks like even Whaley doesn't know...great, so now its back to...

 

 

Probably why there was so much reported friction between Marrone, and Whaley, and it looks to still be dysfunctional.

 

Dunno about the rest of you, but from where I sit Whaley didn't do a very good job with the offensive side of things the last two years. He is only in his third year on the job, and very inexperienced to have the entire roster on his shoulders. The Bills need that senior adviser so Whaley doesn't trade anymore first round picks away for anything other then a QB. So when the team trades for players like WR Mike Williams, RB Bryce Brown they are actually utilized by the team. That when the team trades away a decent red zone threat in Stevie Johnson the team won't be last or 31st in red zone TD's all season.

 

That when we see a decent LG's leave like Andy Levitre, Chad Rinehart they aren't replaced by players outright cut off the team by week six inColin Brown, David Snow! Or grade as badly as backup C/G Doug legursky. Then the next year the team goes dumpster diving for player who is a known injury risk, and grades worse then any player currently on the roster in LG Chris Williams. Drafting a OT with a #2, and a #7, and the 7th becomes the starter, albeit a very average starter who looked lost at times.

 

 

 

Bottom line: I'm still hoping Terry Pegula hires that football czar, football team president who will help Whaley with the offense. (The Bills need to keep Whaley as he has done a near brilliant job with the defensive acquisitions). Someone that will make improvements to the offensive of the scouting dept even if it means hiring offensive scout specialists who can find top O line players, and that elusive franchise QB.

Are you speaking from any real life experience or are you just trying to create a dysfunctional model of the current FO in the hopes of selling that paradigm to other posters to set up future threads? I don't see evidence that the Pegula's need our help when it comes to handling their business. So far so good.

[TXBILLSFAN]

Structure is important, but competence is significantly more.

 

I don't care so much who reports to whom. If Pegula hires the right people, that are competent at their jobs, sets the right goals for them, provides them the resources to be effective, the Bills will become a winning organization. Something that hasn't been the case in 15+ years on the field, and some would argue never under Wilson as owner.

 

Competent includes the ability to communicate, collaborate, make good decisions consistently and operate with a high degree of integrity.

 

To win in the NFL, the Bills need to start with creating a highly functioning front office, all of us have to remember that there are 31 other teams with the same objective, to win the Super Bowl. The Bills have to build the best team to be the best team.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Here ya go:

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/25/5343964/nfl-power-structures-who-really-runs-a-team

 

That's the Patriots*, Steelers, Jaguars, Chiefs, Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, 49ers(formally Harbaugh), Seahawks, Rams and now the Bills. All coaches report directly to the Owner. In some cases the coach has control over player personnel (Pats*, Chiefs, Seahawks and now Eagles) and in the others the GM is in control of the 53 man roster and the coach has input but is in charge of the 46.

 

The Jets, Falcons and Dolphins don't have a similar structure to the Bills at all.

 

As you can see there a plenty of successful teams in that mix, in fact the majority of them are.

Thanks Wayne!! You are on top of it as usual. Edited January 17, 2015 by Kirby Jackson