Bills Power structure

[thewildrabbit]

Now, Back in October we Bills fans thought we would be seeing a senior NFL adviser in the likes of Ron Wolf, Ernie Accorsi, or even Mike Holmgren.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749471/pegulas-looking-to-bring-on-a-consultant-to-help-with-bills-transition

 

Now none of this happened because the NY Jets hired Ron Wolf as an adviser (as Charley Casserly already hired by the Jets as senior adviser wasn't enough), and Holmgren didn't care to commit. The Bears hired Earnie Accorsi as their senior adviser.

 

-----------------------------

 

Now with those options off the table the new Bills owner must have reached out to Bill Polian. Then we heard that Bill Polian would be taking a job as the new football czar.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/12/buffalo_bills_will_hire_bill_polian_next_month_according_to_report.html

 

Bill Polian will be taking over as Bills team president/football czar but move may not be announced til late Jan, due to his commitments

— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) December 31, 2014

 

Terry Pegula wanted to hire Bill Polian as his czar, and then the idea for a team president of football operations went into the crap can after Marrone left. Mostly because as a parting shot St Doug told Polian that the people in the Bills FO were trashing him behind his back. (Gee, I wonder who that could have been?) The aftermath of this came out and the people in the FO shat themselves when they heard that Polian would have recommended hiring ex Charger GM AJ Smith. Which would have possibly removed Whaley entirely from the team, and moved Brandon permanently to the financial side. Then Polian mentioned he would have made changes to the scouting dept, and I can only think about how bad the offensive scouting has been the last two years.

Then we read of Terry Pegula doing all this behind Brandon's back http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/01/polian-confirms-that-bills-were-working-behind-brandons-back/

 

Brandon, Whaley convincing this new owner that he needs to be in command of his team just like the last owner was, and that is not the ideal situation I think most fans were looking for, as I think most wanted that football side czar- football side team president.

 

I know I wanted, and think most fans wanted to see a structure similar to the Ravens, Colts, et al. Like so many other successful teams in which the owner lets the football people make the decisions. Hence, now both Whaley, and Brandon stay in the loop for everything.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

"As was revealed by team president Russ Brandon during Wednesday’s news conference introducing Ryan as the Bills’ new coach, the Bills will operate under mostly the same system they had with their previous coach, Doug Marrone"

 

"All football decisions will be made by Coach and Doug Whaley,” Brandon said.

The only change from what was in place with Marrone is that Ryan will report directly to club owners Terry and Kim Pegula, as will Whaley and Brandon."

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/whaley-will-still-assemble-roster-20150114?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

But then i read this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/doug-whaley-not-worried-about-potential-power-struggle-with-rex-ryan/

 

 

From Whaley, “That’s an interesting question. I think the way we look at it is there’s going to be disagreements, and you want that. You want internal debate, external unity. Does it go to Terry? Does it go to Kim? Does it go to Russ?

 

Jeez, It looks like even Whaley doesn't know...great, so now its back to...

 

 

Probably why there was so much reported friction between Marrone, and Whaley, and it looks to still be dysfunctional.

 

Dunno about the rest of you, but from where I sit Whaley didn't do a very good job with the offensive side of things the last two years. He is only in his third year on the job, and very inexperienced to have the entire roster on his shoulders. The Bills need that senior adviser so Whaley doesn't trade anymore first round picks away for anything other then a QB. So when the team trades for players like WR Mike Williams, RB Bryce Brown they are actually utilized by the team. That when the team trades away a decent red zone threat in Stevie Johnson the team won't be last or 31st in red zone TD's all season.

 

That when we see a decent LG's leave like Andy Levitre, Chad Rinehart they aren't replaced by players outright cut off the team by week six inColin Brown, David Snow! Or grade as badly as backup C/G Doug legursky. Then the next year the team goes dumpster diving for player who is a known injury risk, and grades worse then any player currently on the roster in LG Chris Williams. Drafting a OT with a #2, and a #7, and the 7th becomes the starter, albeit a very average starter who looked lost at times.

 

 

 

Bottom line: I'm still hoping Terry Pegula hires that football czar, football team president who will help Whaley with the offense. (The Bills need to keep Whaley as he has done a near brilliant job with the defensive acquisitions). Someone that will make improvements to the offensive of the scouting dept even if it means hiring offensive scout specialists who can find top O line players, and that elusive franchise QB.

[Captain_Quint]

 

That when we see a decent LG's leave like Andy Levitre, Chad Rinehart they aren't replaced by players outright cut off the team by week six inColin Brown, David Snow! Or grade as badly as backup C/G Doug legursky. Then the next year the team goes dumpster diving for player who is a known injury risk, and grades worse then any player currently on the roster in LG Chris Williams. Drafting a OT with a #2, and a #7, and the 7th becomes the starter, albeit a very average starter who looked lost at times.

 

Good post, and I agree with this part especially. But I feel like it was more Marrone who was in charge of players on the line. He thought that he could bring anyone in, work his magic, and resurrect their careers (Brown, Legursky, and Williams last year).

 

And also, it's Chas Rhunblast, not Rinehart.

[Jmsbills]

Not sure they are even thinking football czar at this point. It sounds like Terry was impressed with the way Russ and Doug handled the Marrone departure - did not panic and had a plan already in place. That is what good management does and is always ready to deal with. Within days they were on the interview trail - to look at everyone. Terry made it sound like the had a couple of possibilities in mind before the Rex interview - but Rex blew the roof off. It was significant that Terry indicated - "Doug was doing all the football stuff and Russ told me not to let him out of the building". They are all on the same page - I believe that and when it comes down to choice A or B - football wise -doug makes the call - but even Rex said - just keep drafting and fining players like you have in the past and we will be fine. I do not think that Doug is a hard headed " it's my decisions" type of person - as was the case with Marrone - and we see how well Marrone decision has worked out. So I am fine we have a young and energetic management team and coaching staff ( ( yes Rex is only in his early 50's) - let's let them take the ball and run with it.

[GunnerBill]

I don't much care for the idea of the football czar idea myself. I think you can over complicate things with excessive layers of management myself. Hire the right people and trust them to do their jobs. To my mind we have the right General Manager and I hope we now have the right Head Coach. The new structure seems clear to me.....

 

Setting aside the non-football operations for a second it looks relatively simple -

 

Budgets are Brandon (so presumably Overdorf reports to him)

Responsibility for the 53 is Whaley

Responsibility for the 46, the coaching staff and ultimately the product on the field is the Head Coach.

[Boolay]

How does a Guy who gives a mediocre college coach from a mediocre conference a 4 million dollar out on a team owned by a 95 year old man who has stated for years that his family has no intention of running the team after he is gone? Maybe I missed the many teams clamoring for his services and it was this was a deal breaker. Brandon has needed to go for the last 10 years. I know many will claim he is a genius marketing guy even though this genius included putting the team at a competitive disadvantage playing 9 road games for years. Seriously folks consider for a second marketing the Buffalo Bills to rabid Western New York football fans. This task seems about as hard as marketing free beer to the same fans at a Buffalo Bills tail-gate party.

How does a Guy who gives a mediocre college coach from a mediocre conference a 4 million dollar out on a team owned by a 95 year old man who has stated for years that his family has no intention of running the team after he is gone? Maybe I missed the many teams clamoring for his services and it was this was a deal breaker. Brandon has needed to go for the last 10 years. I know many will claim he is a genius marketing guy even though this genius included putting the team at a competitive disadvantage playing 9 road games for years. Seriously folks consider for a second marketing the Buffalo Bills to rapid Western New York football fans. This task seems about as hard as marketing free beer to the same fans at a Buffalo Bills tail-gate party.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Boolay

[BillnutinHouston]

Seriously folks consider for a second marketing the Buffalo Bills to rapid Western New York football fans. This task seems about as hard as marketing free beer to the same fans at a Buffalo Bills tail-gate party.

Here's what I consider - the marketing task is harder than you think. The Billls have a season-ticket base of only around 42,000 and their ticket prices are the lowest in the league. More than likely, premium seat and suite revenues are in the lowest tier in the league. The interest is there, but the dollars are not.

 

If I owned the team, I would not accept a complacent marketing staff.

[nucci]

GM Doug Whaley and his staff...

Coach Rex Ryan and his staff...

What else do you need on the football side...If what is said about what Polian wanted to do is true I'm glad he's not here...also if Polian was going to bring in his own GM and replace the whole scouting department, wouldn't that be part of the heavy lifting he didn't want to do?

[bananathumb]

Looks a bit like Target Canada and we now know how that worked out.

[Kirby Jackson]

I was fine either way. The Bills management is and has been strong IMO. They are very well respected around the league. With that being said if you have an opportunity to get even stronger I am all for that as well.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

The Generals Pegula are at the top making decisions based on their 3 Lieutenants

the Lieutenants then control their respective troops

GM Doug Whaley and his staff...

Coach Rex Ryan and his staff...

What else do you need on the football side...If what is said about what Polian wanted to do is true I'm glad he's not here...also if Polian was going to bring in his own GM and replace the whole scouting department, wouldn't that be part of the heavy lifting he didn't want to do?

[Kirby Jackson]

Here's what I consider - the marketing task is harder than you think. The Billls have a season-ticket base of only around 42,000 and their ticket prices are the lowest in the league. More than likely, premium seat and suite revenues are in the lowest tier in the league. The interest is there, but the dollars are not.

 

If I owned the team, I would not accept a complacent marketing staff.

I have alluded to this in many threads. It's WAY harder than people think. I am just going to chalk it up to the poster's ignorance. The arms and legs of a business operation in pro sports would make one's head spin. This all while doing so with a product that people are connected to emotionally unlike any other. It is also done on a very, very public stage. The business model in sports is EXTREMELY complicated. That is why you see so many talented business execs popping up throughout the world of sports.

The Generals Pegula are at the top making decisions based on their 3 Lieutenants

 

the Lieutenants then control their respective troops

I think that this is really well put. Edited January 16, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

That is why you see so many talented business execs popping up throughout the world of sports.

 

 

And why some of them as talented as they are cannot crack sports, because that emotional link to which you alluded doesn't exist in their usual experience and it is harder to reconcile that with the sound business sense than it may first appear.

[eball]

I'll only say this -- after his experiences with the GMs in New Jersey, does anyone think Rex would have accepted this job if he thought he was going to have difficulties w/ Whaley and Pegula?

[Wayne Cubed]

I'll only say this -- after his experiences with the GMs in New Jersey, does anyone think Rex would have accepted this job if he thought he was going to have difficulties w/ Whaley and Pegula?

 

I think that's part of the reason he didn't like or want to wait around for the Atlanta job. You got Dimitroff as GM and Pioli as Assistant GM and then Blank. Apparently they all have a say on personnel. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Add to that there was a lot of disagreement between Mike Smith and Dimitroff on how to build the defense. Sounds like a mess.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Cute picture, "Fear".

 

In context, all Whaley was saying is that he and Rex will thrash things out (as Gailey and Nix did) and if they can't agree, they will not hesitate to take it to the appropriate level of higher authority. I wouldn't infer from that statement that he doesn't know where different decisions should go. Then the question becomes does their higher level of authority have the appropriate expertise to referee? That's a fair question. I'm just not sure a Football Czar would automagically fix things, especially if he were the wrong guy. No guy > wrong guy IMO.

 

What I would like to understand is this notion that Whaley was the decision maker behind letting Levitre and Rhinehart walk, trading SJ, the FA and draft decisions that were made?

 

Are we just basing this off a couple of media snippets about how there was friction between Whaley and Marrone? If that's the case, can we also pay attention to other media snippets about how St Doug was a control freak and would "go off" at small things - chew out reporters whose piece he didn't like, control video clips on buffalobills.com? That he "held grudges" such as benching Goodwin because he was injured? Maybe the friction because Whaley didn't say "yes sir" and salute?

 

I'd like to point out, that the sort of players drafted for offense changed dramatically when Gailey was fired and Marrone brought in. Previously we had fast, waterbug type guys, Spiller and Graham, who cares if they can play, Gailey can "coach them up" but you can't coach speed. Guards were smaller and more nimble - Levitre is only 6'2". The physical type sought in the draft and FA changed under Marrone - as another poster said, "big lumbering behemoths". I think the probability is very high that they didn't want Levitre and Rinehart because they don't fit the physical prototype Marrone wanted. Henderson and Kouandijo are 6'7". Marrone can "coach them up" on OL. LOL.

 

I think the evidence that St Doug had major input into the FA and draft process is right there in the type of players. SJ is an unconventional route runner and a free spirit - I don't think it's a surprise that Doug wanted him gone. Levitre - too short and light. Rinehart - too light and borderline on height only 6'5". Colin Brown is 6'7". Chris Williams is 6'6". There are only so many guard prospects who are > 6'5" and can actually play. I don't think they were looking for the best draftee or FA guard, I think they were looking for the best FA "big lumbering behemouth" guard. Why? because St Doug wanted it so, and Whaley was attempting to deliver what he wanted.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Hopeful

[Lurker]

does anyone think Rex would have accepted this job if he thought he was going to have difficulties w/ Whaley and Pegula?

Well, there are 27.5 million reasons he might have considered.

 

I found it interesting that he talked so openly about a TV gig, which I assume he'd land a nanosecond after he was out of a HC job. Since coaching salaries are guaranteed, he actually has nothing to lose (and a lot to gain) by coming to Buffalo...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'll only say this -- after his experiences with the GMs in New Jersey, does anyone think Rex would have accepted this job if he thought he was going to have difficulties w/ Whaley and Pegula?

 

Quite the contrary, I think Rex was interviewing GMs and owners and after the interview decided Whaley >>> Dimitroff.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

And why some of them as talented as they are cannot crack sports, because that emotional link to which you alluded doesn't exist in their usual experience and it is harder to reconcile that with the sound business sense than it may first appear.

Exactly!! Here's a quick anecdotal story on that topic. Scott O'Neil who was the president of MSG and is now the CEO of the group that owns the Devils and 76ers did a talk with fans a couple of months back. He was speaking with about 50 season ticket holders of the 6ers. The team was coming off of a tough loss and he started by saying something to the tune of "hopefully this chalk talk will be better than the end of that game last night." As soon as he said that and gave a light chuckle the people jumped down his throat. "It's not funny!! Do you think this is funny?!? Do you think that it is funny that we pour out $5K a year to watch this team?!? Is it funny to you?!?"

 

Here is a guy that had one of the most prestigious jobs in all of sports under siege from the fan base. When you are losing the hot dogs are cold and the beer is warm. That's just the way that it is. Many of these talented execs leave sports for the exact reasons that you mentioned. If you are the CEO of Rich Products you rarely have people yelling at you that your cheese sticks aren't cheesy enough. The emotional part is way underrated.

[eball]

 

Quite the contrary, I think Rex was interviewing GMs and owners and after the interview decided Whaley >>> Dimitroff.

 

That's not contrary, it's exactly what I'm saying. Rex wouldn't have taken this job if he thought Whaley would be a problem.

[GunnerBill]

Exactly!! Here's a quick anecdotal story on that topic. Scott O'Neil who was the president of MSG and is now the CEO of the group that owns the Devils and 76ers did a talk with fans a couple of months back. He was speaking with about 50 season ticket holders of the 6ers. The team was coming off of a tough loss and he started by saying something to the tune of "hopefully this chalk talk will be better than the end of that game last night." As soon as he said that and gave a light chuckle the people jumped down his throat. "It's not funny!! Do you think this is funny?!? Do you think that it is funny that we pour out $5K a year to watch this team?!? Is it funny to you?!?"

 

Here is a guy that had one of the most prestigious jobs in all of sports under siege from the fan base. When you are losing the hot dogs are cold and the beer is warm. That's just the way that it is. Many of these talented execs leave sports for the exact reasons that you mentioned. If you are the CEO of Rich Products you rarely have people yelling at you that your cheese sticks aren't cheesy enough. The emotional part is way underrated.

 

Couldn't agree more. You can be running your business superbly off the sports field and all people care about is the result on Saturday / Sunday etc. My soccer club Arsenal has the same issue. It is run as a model club, self funding, not relying on handouts from a sugar daddy owner, stable management, with a new state of the art stadium and training complex and continually competing at the top of the Premier League. Clubs all around Europe are copying large elements of their operating model.... and yet they haven't won the league in 10 years so the fans think the board of directors are rubbish and should all be replaced. All fans care about is the bit that happens on the grass and many of them think it is as simple as "win and everything else you are doing must be right." Not as simple as that. Not by half.