Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) "We have a saying," Brandon said. "Internal debate, external unity. We had debate throughout the process." Whaley said these same four words, too. I totally understand it. I guess I agree with it. But I can't see how it is wise that they say those four words in public. It's basically admitting we're lying to you some or a lot of the time. Even if we know that happens, and I totally understand why they have to. It seems to me that it's not very smart to say it. Now granted, sometimes the internal debate will create unity. Or since all five - let's say, between Rex, Doug, Terry, Kim and Russ - may come to a group decision this is definitely what's best for The Bills and for us, then the external unity is genuine. But there is going to be a lot of times when it will not be internal unity. Terry and Kim, or Doug, or Rex, are going to have to put their foot down and say, "This is what needs to happen." And Rex won't get the draft pick he wants because Doug has the final say. Or Doug won't get the free agent he wants because Rex wants a different guy and Terry intercedes. That's inevitable. But then when they say it was all of our decision they are lying to us. It doesn't matter of course. It doesn't affect what's on the field. Unless it does. The "external unity" concept was in place last year. They all said they wanted the Watkins trade. It seems that Marrone didn't. It added to the disconnect, then the arguments, the tension, and to the players that played in the games. Maybe to wins and losses and the playoffs. And ultimately, to the opt-out. (Thank the Lord!!!) So the lie of "external unity" which wasn't unity at all, did affect the team. I don't think it's a good idea to do it. How can we believe a lot of what they say about, say, top draft picks. Discuss. P.S. I shouldn't say "the lie" affected the team, because of course it didn't. But the internal discord did affect the team. And they lied to us about it. And now are announcing they are going to do it again. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I take it you haven't worked in a large organization a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I take it you haven't worked in a large organization a lot? I said at the beginning I totally understand it. It has to happen and happens all the time. My point is they shouldn't admit they are doing it, they should just do it. Admitting to the public you're lying to them is not good business. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If fans can't even handle the "lie" why on earth would they give fans the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think we had a coach not on board with public screaming matches, and comments like "I'm making the decision unless someone forces something else on me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) If fans can't even handle the "lie" why on earth would they give fans the truth? I'm not advocating telling the truth either. that would be even more dumb. I'm saying they shouldn't say anything about how they reached the decision, after doing it last year and then we now know it wasn't true. just shut up about "external unity." That's the equivalent of "We're lying." I think we had a coach not on board with public screaming matches, and comments like "I'm making the decision unless someone forces something else on me" Yeah, that was brilliant. That actually played a small part in him not getting a job I think. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an honest individual with no passion for deceit. He's probably a huge fan of the large and often polarizing debate that takes place about his status as a team President. I'm sure he's just keeping internal decisions close to the vest because he feels there's inherent value in that, and certainly not because he has anything to hide./s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an honest individual with no passion for deceit. Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an disingenuous individual with no passion for anything remotely resembling the truth. He's a walking TV commercial. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an disingenuous individual with no passion for anything remotely resembling the truth. He's a walking TV commercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg17 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Seriously, how much of the "reporting" this off-season has been accurate? That Marrone got his panties twisted about the Sammy pick seems likely to be as accurate as Rex to Atlanta, Quinn to Jets, etc. Regarding your main point on this topic, my thought is that is much ado... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Whaley said these same four words, too. I totally understand it. I guess I agree with it. But I can't see how it is wise that they say those four words in public. It's basically admitting we're lying to you some or a lot of the time. Even if we know that happens, and I totally understand why they have to. It seems to me that it's not very smart to say it. Now granted, sometimes the internal debate will create unity. Or since all five - let's say, between Rex, Doug, Terry, Kim and Russ - may come to a group decision this is definitely what's best for The Bills and for us, then the external unity is genuine. But there is going to be a lot of times when it will not be internal unity. Terry and Kim, or Doug, or Rex, are going to have to put their foot down and say, "This is what needs to happen." And Rex won't get the draft pick he wants because Doug has the final say. Or Doug won't get the free agent he wants because Rex wants a different guy and Terry intercedes. That's inevitable. But then when they say it was all of our decision they are lying to us. It doesn't matter of course. It doesn't affect what's on the field. Unless it does. The "external unity" concept was in place last year. They all said they wanted the Watkins trade. It seems that Marrone didn't. It added to the disconnect, then the arguments, the tension, and to the players that played in the games. Maybe to wins and losses and the playoffs. And ultimately, to the opt-out. (Thank the Lord!!!) So the lie of "external unity" which wasn't unity at all, did affect the team. I don't think it's a good idea to do it. How can we believe a lot of what they say about, say, top draft picks. Discuss. P.S. I shouldn't say "the lie" affected the team, because of course it didn't. But the internal discord did affect the team. And they lied to us about it. And now are announcing they are going to do it again. "Debate" and "dissent" are two different things. "Debate" and "unity" are not incompatible, and it is entirely possible, if everyone's an adult and gets along, to debate internally, present a unified position externally, and not lie about it. It's fairly easy, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Do you expect them to come out and say "Well, I wanted Joe Smith, but Rex wanted Dave Jones so Rex cried to Kim and she made us pick Dave Jones.". Its never going to happen. I wouldn't expect them to always agree. But good leadership builds consensus and moves the team forward for the greater good. Grown ups can disagree but still understand why a decision makes sense. It's only a problem if you are a childish turd like Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That actually played a small part in him not getting a job I think. I think that was just a symptom of the disconnect. Jordan Palmer is someone who is a good mentor and would not push as much for playing time while was Orton less of mentor and more of a challenge. Which I assume the screaming means that Marrone was not happy with what Monos/Whaley did when Marrone asked for a veteran qb. So DM wants someone who will be able to play because EJ can't win games and DW stills wants EJ to play. Hence the screaming, which is okay behind closed doors is not great out in the open because it means they were not resolved behind closed doors. With the way Rex operates and the org structure, we're probably going to have some similar situations. It will be interesting to see how T/KP handles anything that isn't "external unity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What was the "lie" part? I missed that in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an disingenuous individual with no passion for anything remotely resembling the truth. He's a walking TV commercial. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 They're expecting fans to be realistic and okay with not always getting the truth. For example, if they announce that EJ is the starter next season and the entire braintrust agreed that this was in the Bills best interest, we'd know that there might not have been 100% agreement necessarily, but we'll go along with it for obvious reasons. I guess what I'm say is, us realizing that we're going to be fed lies sometimes about agreement is a feature, not a bug. They're training us to be realistic and okay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This discussion is giving me a headache. But you guys have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think you're looking for things to be bother by. Terry has said the same about the Sabres front office. He doesn't want Yes men. He doesn't want people to be afraid to voice an opinion, to make a mistake or to be wrong. But in the end, he wants people who are on board with what is right for the best interest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Russ Brandon is very transparent, and strikes me as an disingenuous individual with no passion for anything remotely resembling the truth. He's a walking TV commercial. He IS a marketing guy after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I said at the beginning I totally understand it. It has to happen and happens all the time. My point is they shouldn't admit they are doing it, they should just do it. Admitting to the public you're lying to them is not good business. They are not lying, they just are not sharing the full color picture. I have no problems with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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