DC Greg Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Syracuse was 29th in passing and 17th in offense in Doug's final year there with a QB who was drafted fairly high and a left tackle who went in the 1st round. That doesn't exactly stand out as innovative or cutting edge. Chip Kelly nearly made stars out of Nick Foles and Riley Cooper, no one is confusing them with Andrew Luck and Dez Bryant anytime soon. A good coach is able to work with what he's given, a bad coach throws is hands up and says "the players aren't capable". Mike Singletary famously declared he couldn't win with the same players Jim Harbaugh took to 3 straight NFC title games. Mike Singletary likely isn't getting another head coaching job anytime soon while Harbaugh was hired instantly after things turned south in San Fran. Which one does Marrone sound more like? I refuse to believe running Spiller up the middle or using Sammy as a blocker on a screen for Chris Hogan or Fred Jackson is the best use of a player's talent. St. Doug is inflexible and far from innovative, sitting in the same room while Sean Payton and Drew Brees worked doesn't make someone a genius. Great post. Couldn't agree more. Happy to see him go. I just hope we find a Kelly-esq coach who can figure out how to get more out of what we do have. Understood there are glaring weaknesses on the o-line and at QB. Still think there were areas we could have done much, much better, some of which you have pointed to here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Who care how he leaves? Whether he texted his departure or whether he held an inauthentic sobbing press conference what difference does it make? The notion that the fans and players feelings are hurt are non-sensical. The NFL is a business in which players, coaches, front office staff members are constantly on the move. People who do not conduct themselves like professionals when they are in mildly trying circumstances and those who display that they give zero craps about people they just called "family" for two years can indeed succeed, but they usually don't. Their rude behavior is usually masking a gargantuan self doubt. To me, this seems the most logical explanation of Greggo Marrone's unusual departure behavior. IMO, it does not bode well for his future that he can't even hide his personality issues long enough to not stomp his feet on the way out of town. I have no issue at all with him utilizing his contractual rights to their fullest extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Syracuse was 29th in passing and 17th in offense in Doug's final year there with a QB who was drafted fairly high and a left tackle who went in the 1st round. That doesn't exactly stand out as innovative or cutting edge. Chip Kelly nearly made stars out of Nick Foles and Riley Cooper, no one is confusing them with Andrew Luck and Dez Bryant anytime soon. A good coach is able to work with what he's given, a bad coach throws is hands up and says "the players aren't capable". Mike Singletary famously declared he couldn't win with the same players Jim Harbaugh took to 3 straight NFC title games. Mike Singletary likely isn't getting another head coaching job anytime soon while Harbaugh was hired instantly after things turned south in San Fran. Which one does Marrone sound more like? I refuse to believe running Spiller up the middle or using Sammy as a blocker on a screen for Chris Hogan or Fred Jackson is the best use of a player's talent. St. Doug is inflexible and far from innovative, sitting in the same room while Sean Payton and Drew Brees worked doesn't make someone a genius. This!! On a side note you are the best new poster to hit this board in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sean Payton thinks the world of Ryan Pace. Pace has played a HUGE role in building that Saints roster over the last decade. Payton has been a Marrone supporter (at least publicly). If Payton actually feels about Marrone as it seems he will be a strong candidate. If the 91 year old owner was "pissed off" at the Trestman (over Arians) disaster, no way she's going to be on board with a guy like MArrone, with his sudden baggage questionable value. She wants a home run now. MArrone is the least likely home run candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If the 91 year old owner was "pissed off" at the Trestman (over Arians) disaster, no way she's going to be on board with a guy like MArrone, with his sudden baggage questionable value. She wants a home run now. MArrone is the least likely home run candidate. I hope that you are right. I kind of want him out of football for a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Marrone is going to have to swallow his pride and be an assistant this season (which he probably will not do) or be out of football for a year. If he is dumb enough to sit out a year, he's finished as a HC. He might already be anyway after how he handled himself. Edited January 9, 2015 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Marrone is going to have to swallow his pride and be an assistant this season (which he probably will not do) or be out of football for a year. If he is dumb enough to sit out a year, he's finished as a HC. He might already be anyway after how he handled himself. I actually think that he'd be better off sitting out than having his outdated offense scheme exposed. He may land a job if he takes the Lovie Smith route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I guess it's possible... it just seems like a guy who apparently treats everyone like garbage, apparently has never called plays, and has mediocre success is not going to be any more in demand after a year off than he would be now, fresh of his 9-7 season. Next year will have its hot names... plus eventually someone is going to hire the Seattle guys (maybe that happens this year). Marvin Lewis could be out there, as could Jason Garrett. Probably Pettine after Manziel implodes. I just can't see what Marrone brings to the table that will entice anyone unless there are like 10 openings and someone like Jacksonville takes a flier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I guess it's possible... it just seems like a guy who apparently treats everyone like garbage, apparently has never called plays, and has mediocre success is not going to be any more in demand after a year off than he would be now, fresh of his 9-7 season. Next year will have its hot names... plus eventually someone is going to hire the Seattle guys (maybe that happens this year). Marvin Lewis could be out there, as could Jason Garrett. Probably Pettine after Manziel implodes. I just can't see what Marrone brings to the table that will entice anyone unless there are like 10 openings and someone like Jacksonville takes a flier. Your 1st paragraph is why I think the OC route would be a disaster as well. Ha ha, hopefully he blew his 1 opportunity!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If the 91 year old owner was "pissed off" at the Trestman (over Arians) disaster, no way she's going to be on board with a guy like MArrone, with his sudden baggage questionable value. She wants a home run now. MArrone is the least likely home run candidate. I think you're right on that. As far as Payton and Pace liking Marrone, I imagine they did. But those guys were in a position of power. Marrone was an underling. He was Curtis Modkins at that point, although Payton did say he was responsible for some good stuff. But I think it was only when he got in charge and had the power and became the man that he started to be a bully. And then when he got the success at Cuse he got worse, then he became St Doug, then he got an NFL HC job and became even bigger. I doubt he's the same guy that Payton and Pace knew, or that Curtis Martin knew on the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I've come to the conclusion Marrone severely overestimated how much "sympathy" he would receive around the league for being in such a "horrible" situation in Buffalo. If you read Mojo44's posts in this forum, they're all about lack of respect -- how dare anyone expect more than what the Bills accomplished "with what I had to work with." It turns out NFL owners and GMs aren't very sympathetic to guys who were handed a top 5 defense and new rich owner, yet decided to take a $4M buyout and walk out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 It doesn't matter what your football philosophy is on offense if the quality of your players is at a dismal level. Our OL and qb were atrocious. The problems they encountered had little to do with strategy and everything to do with their talent level. It is very difficult to game plan for inept players competing against vastly superior players going against them.you are taking the point of view that a weak QB & o-line require a non-innovative offense. I'd argue the opposite. If you don't have the horses you get creative to compensate. Doing a turtle does you no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 you are taking the point of view that a weak QB & o-line require a non-innovative offense. I'd argue the opposite. If you don't have the horses you get creative to compensate. Doing a turtle does you no good. Great point. Innovation means doing something different to overcome an obstacle or solve a problem. It's as if Saint Doug just threw up his hands in despair, as if there was nothing else to be done. I'm sure Hackett had some ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Great point. Innovation means doing something different to overcome an obstacle or solve a problem. It's as if Saint Doug just threw up his hands in despair, as if there was nothing else to be done. I'm sure Hackett had some ideas...chan is a great example to use. He made it appear that Kordell Stewart was an NFL QB for a couple seasons. HS teams went to crazy spread offenses, why? Because the didn't have the horses. Mike Leach scared the crap out of UT. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 chan is a great example to use. He made it appear that Kordell Stewart was an NFL QB for a couple seasons. HS teams went to crazy spread offenses, why? Because the didn't have the horses. Mike Leach scared the crap out of UT. Why? Yeah, I said it a couple of days ago...give us Chan this past season with this defense and the Bills would have made the playoffs -- with EJ. Ok, maybe that's a little bold, but I do believe he would have coached EJ up in the "right" way and we'd have seen something significantly different on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah, I said it a couple of days ago...give us Chan this past season with this defense and the Bills would have made the playoffs -- with EJ. Ok, maybe that's a little bold, but I do believe he would have coached EJ up in the "right" way and we'd have seen something significantly different on the field. Yeah, I said it a couple of days ago...give us Chan this past season with this defense and the Bills would have made the playoffs -- with EJ. Ok, maybe that's a little bold, but I do believe he would have coached EJ up in the "right" way and we'd have seen something significantly different on the field. your last sentence is the important one. Would have found a way to make the QB work & would have done something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 your last sentence is the important one. Would have found a way to make the QB work & would have done something different. Yup. Chan was as much about masking deficiencies as utilizing strengths, and was pretty great at it. Marrone was terrible at both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yup. Chan was as much about masking deficiencies as utilizing strengths, and was pretty great at it. Marrone was terrible at both.I don't know KTD Marrone did a pretty good job of getting his TEs snaps in his power running scheme. I'm surprised that the defensive coordinators were able to make the necessary adjustments to account for Lee Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I don't know KTD Marrone did a pretty good job of getting his TEs snaps in his power running scheme. I'm surprised that the defensive coordinators were able to make the necessary adjustments to account for Lee Smith. Good point. I heard from more than one reliable source that pretty much every defensive coordinator facing the Bills would get a Fat Head of Lee Smith and put it up on the walls in the film room all week before playing the Bills and start off the week saying, "Do you know this man? Well get used to him. Because your lives will be nothing but Lee Smith every moment until Sunday at 1:05 pm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) you are taking the point of view that a weak QB & o-line require a non-innovative offense. I'd argue the opposite. If you don't have the horses you get creative to compensate. Doing a turtle does you no good. What creative strategy would you have employed to compensate for linemen who couldn't block and move and a qb who couldn't play? If you are in a race with a horse that is lame how do you compensate for its limitations? The results you get are attributable to the horse's deficiencies not the instruction the jockey got before the race. Marrone took the best strategy under the circumstances he was subjected to. He took a more conservative approach on offense and relied on his defense to keep his team in games. Some may consider it an uncreative response but in reality it was a prudent approach to take. What could be more foolish tha asking your OL and qb to do things that they are incapable of? No matter what creative strategy you advocate for it will not work unless the OL and qb positions are dramatically upgraded. Success in this league is predicated on talent level, not about genius strategy concocted by some svengali coach who magically devises a plan to compensate for his team's glaring weaknesses. Doug Marrone got a team with the worst OL in the league and the worst starting qb in the league to a 9-7 record. What more do you want? He got the team to play to its talent level. For that accomplishment many people are characterizing him as a befuddled fool. Yet the same HC who is unmercifully being maligned is the person that the organization wanted back. Edited January 10, 2015 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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