Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The kickoff specialist was Marrone call I believe. I'm not sure what everyone's issue is with the KO specialist? Their goal was to have an elite ST and they did. They dressed 7 guys each week solely to play on ST (Gay, Carpenter, Schmidt, Sanborn, Thigpen, Dean and Easely). What did people want them to do with those spots dress a couple more slow TEs? If the answer is Mike Williams then they should have not dressed someone like Lee Smith because he wasn't ever going to contribute in a positive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Drafting a "project" QB like Manuel and giving him a rookie OC who was also his QB coach is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Not to mention an OL that couldn't stop a nosebleed, and an anemic to impotent run game  I agree that the jury is out on Whaley's QB-finding skills. We know Whaley was a consensus decision including Nix and Brandon, and I haven't seen anyone else in that draft light up the league (Geno? Nassib?) We also don't know whose decision it was to jettison Fitz in favor of TJax then Kolb. If Marrone came in and said "get me a WCO guy" that's not on Whaley.  The Bills real QB problems are strategic and far predate Whaley - persistant failure to pick up a QB through draft when a value player falls, clinging to one not-so-good player for too long, failure to build a quality group of players around a developmental QB, particularly OL.  Also, please keep in mind that historically, something like 50% of the QB drafted high in the 1st (1st 5, 1st 10 picks) bomb, only 30% of the QB drafted in the last half of the 1st round/first few picks of the 2nd make it (numbers vary depending upon where you draw the line and how you define "make it"). If Whaley drafts 5 QB and they all bomb, he sucks at QB. If he drafts 3 in the bottom of the 1st to top of the 2nd and they all bomb, I'm not sure that's statistically distinguishable from "average" Edited January 7, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. Being able to find QB talent requires that there actually be QB talent available. I don't think there was anyone worth a crap the last two seasons. I'm sure you can offer names of people you think will be good because you saw them complete a pass on a SportsCenter highlight, but noone proven that the Bills are realistically able to acquire are available. Players like Cutler and Bradford are lottery tickets. Edited January 7, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblax16 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but please get rid of that kickoff specialist... Â Â HAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 All indications look like it's all about EJ this year. He's now had 2 years in the league, one where he was forced into perhaps too much too soon and one where he sat almost the entire year. Now that we are past losing our pick, I'm completely fine riding EJ. I'd like to bring in a vet who will help him but not push him (like the Andrew Luck - Matt Hasselbeck) relationship and take a developmental guy in the 5th round. People act like they know Bradford or Cutler would surely put us in the playoffs and it's a ridiculous notion. Support EJ, get him a good coach and a vet to sit in the room with him and let him sink or swim. If he flames out we'll be in a position to get a new QB next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think it is fair to assume that Whaley can't evaluate QB talent. Where did he miss? By not taking Geno Smith over EJ? It is not like there has been a plethora of QB talent pouring into the league that he has missed on. There are not many elite QB's in the league, let alone ones that Whaley had a chance to get. I think he made a good effort to add serviceable veterans to the team in Kolb and Orton and the jury is still out on EJ. Just because we have not had the good fortune to add an Andrew Luck to the roster doesn't mean that Whaley doesn't recognize the talent when he sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I agree that Whaley creds to QB change, but credding to trade for QBs is misnomer. Yes he snaps all names in the bucket, but how many actually worked out? For that matter, the QB directly affects the cred, leaving a GM gasping! Absolutely gasping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think it is fair to assume that Whaley can't evaluate QB talent. Where did he miss? By not taking Geno Smith over EJ? It is not like there has been a plethora of QB talent pouring into the league that he has missed on. There are not many elite QB's in the league, let alone ones that Whaley had a chance to get. I think he made a good effort to add serviceable veterans to the team in Kolb and Orton and the jury is still out on EJ. Just because we have not had the good fortune to add an Andrew Luck to the roster doesn't mean that Whaley doesn't recognize the talent when he sees it. The only one that really bothers me is TJ Graham over Russell Wilson when we did not have a single young QB prospect on the roster. But Whaley wasn't making the calls yet on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I get that most everyone has come to the conclusion that Manuel is a bust... but with the horror stories that continue to come out about how dysfunctional the offensive coaching was on this team under Doug Marrone, I can't help but think that played some role in Manuels' struggles. Â Everyone says they knew, when they drafted EJ, they knew he was a "project", but it doesn't sound like anyone (or at least not the boss) had a clue as to how to proceed with the project. Instead of using Manuels' natural abilities to let him enjoy some success, and gradually round out his game, they harnessed him by taking away his greatest asset (throwing on the run), and trying to turn him into a robot, programmed to run out of bounds and to throw the ball away at the first sign of trouble. Â Manuel still has to improve his accuracy, and yeah, he does have to become a better pocket passer, to become a legit NFL starter. I am still not convinced that he can't do those things. It sounds as though Marrones biggest fear was turning the ball over, and it was drummed into the head of his young QB. I often thought EJ, particularly on the intermediate routes that require accuracy and a certain degree of arm strength, was throwing the ball not to get intercepted, rather than throwing the ball to complete the pass...it is kind of an extension of a head coach who coaches not to lose, rather than to win. Â I don't have any issue with the Bills, or Whaley, emphasizing that their new head coach being open to EJ Manuel as their starting QB. It may scare a potential coaching candidate or two off, but do we really want somebody who would be so deterred anyways? EJ may not, ultimately, be the answer, but at least in the short term, he may be the best answer.... Edited January 7, 2015 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The only one that really bothers me is TJ Graham over Russell Wilson when we did not have a single young QB prospect on the roster. But Whaley wasn't making the calls yet on that one. Agreed, I don't believe it was his call, that's why I didn't mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? Blake Bortles and Johnny Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Blake Bortles and Johnny Football. I'm not sure anyone can consider Manziel to be a sure thing. And wasn't Bortles taken before our pick? Or is the assumption that we should have traded the farm for him? Also, it looks like Bortles had a worse rookie year than Manuel... so I'm a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? this. That's my point, the premise of this post, that Whaley can't evaluate QB's is a very weak foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'm not sure anyone can consider Manziel to be a sure thing. And wasn't Bortles taken before our pick? Or is the assumption that we should have traded the farm for him? Also, it looks like Bortles had a worse rookie year than Manuel... so I'm a bit confused. We need the sacarasm font. Â Manuel's rookie year numbers are pretty much in line with every rookie QBs not named Luck or Wilson. But patience sucks. If you're aren't a pro bowler after 14 games as a NFL QB (maybe the hardest position in all of sports), you are a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sorry, it's hard to tell around here with some of the opinions thrown around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I agree that Whaley creds to QB change, but credding to trade for QBs is misnomer. Yes he snaps all names in the bucket, but how many actually worked out? For that matter, the QB directly affects the cred, leaving a GM gasping! Absolutely gasping. I have no idea what you're talking about, but, I think it's filthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I haven't read the whole thread so I do not know if this has been brought up or not but Whaley's confidence in EJ is as much a recruiting tool as it is his actual belief. Is he going to interview these candidates and say that "we have a 1st round QB that cant play" or is he going to say "the kid was coming along well but the inept coaching staff didn't know how to use him?" Of course he is going to play up EJ if he wants these guys to take the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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