Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Would Odell Beckham have been the same player with our QB's? CBF people I'm not saying we should have drafted Beckham , my point to the OP was that our 19th pick would be better than our 50th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Days before the draft GR talked non stop how he liked Beckham and how much he wanted to trade up for Watkins, since Watkins happened I believe the interest in Beckham was real as well. Whaley was asked at a function for season ticket holders whom he would have taken if he didn't move up in the draft to take Watkins. Without any hesitation he said Ebron. Edited January 6, 2015 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Interesting from Matt Miller with bleacher report (former nfl scout) @nfldraftscout: 2015 looks like a deep draft class, but weaker at the top @jasonmcmeekin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Whaley was asked at a function for season ticket holders whom he would have taken if he didn't move up in the draft to take Watkins. Without any hesitation he said Ebron. I heard that somewhere else as well, think it was a press conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm telling ya'll @Rand_Getlin: Multiple sources with insight on Jameis Winston's process indicate the QB is seriously considering staying in school for another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm telling ya'll @Rand_Getlin: Multiple sources with insight on Jameis Winston's process indicate the QB is seriously considering staying in school for another year. Serious question: do college players take some form of injury insurance? I'm all for "stay in school". But the potential cost to a player's earning potential if he stays in school and is injured, or even if he stays in school and his team sucks the following year - is huge. Especially to a QB, the most scrutinized position in football. It's not just the $$, which under the new rookie wage scale isn't as huge of a bonanza for a high 1st round pick. But a 1st round QB gets more benefit of the doubt. Consider Brohm, widely considered a 1st round pick if he'd come out his junior year. Fell to the 2nd round his Sr year and even got cut by Green Bay in training camp and signed to the practice squad. No way they take that chance on a 1st round pick. Winston, in terms of his life after football, personal maturity and football development, would be well-served to stay in school. As it stands, I have no doubt he's considering it, but the potential football and earnings downside has to be monumental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: do college players take some form of injury insurance? I'm all for "stay in school". But the potential cost to a player's earning potential if he stays in school and is injured, or even if he stays in school and his team sucks the following year - is huge. Especially to a QB, the most scrutinized position in football. It's not just the $$, which under the new rookie wage scale isn't as huge of a bonanza for a high 1st round pick. But a 1st round QB gets more benefit of the doubt. Consider Brohm, widely considered a 1st round pick if he'd come out his junior year. Fell to the 2nd round his Sr year and even got cut by Green Bay in training camp and signed to the practice squad. No way they take that chance on a 1st round pick. Winston, in terms of his life after football, personal maturity and football development, would be well-served to stay in school. As it stands, I have no doubt he's considering it, but the potential football and earnings downside has to be monumental. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Good post as always. When I have more time, I will post EJ's numbers compared to other young QBs. His numbers from his rookie year are almost on par with Flacco's rookie year and Flacco is a monster in the postseason now. Marrone screwed this franchise in so many ways. But at least Orton got us that win against NE's backups!!! C Biscuit are you taking the viewpoint EJ should have started the last game? 1. I don't think it hurt the psyche of this team to go out with a winning season. It wasn't just about Marrone and his job prospects 2. The line was so bad I was in favor of getting EJ out of there, and keeping him out of there this season. I didn't want to see him pull an "Trent Edwards" and get shell shocked and gun shy. 3. He got a chance to rest, have his knees fully healthy and healed, learn away from the bright lights, and hopefully get his best shot to succeed next year with a quality offense, OL, OC, and QB coach Of course I agree with the point that EJ's numbers are not that far off many quite capable NFL QBs as rookies, as well as other rookies of his year and this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: do college players take some form of injury insurance? I'm all for "stay in school". But the potential cost to a player's earning potential if he stays in school and is injured, or even if he stays in school and his team sucks the following year - is huge. Especially to a QB, the most scrutinized position in football. It's not just the $$, which under the new rookie wage scale isn't as huge of a bonanza for a high 1st round pick. But a 1st round QB gets more benefit of the doubt. Consider Brohm, widely considered a 1st round pick if he'd come out his junior year. Fell to the 2nd round his Sr year and even got cut by Green Bay in training camp and signed to the practice squad. No way they take that chance on a 1st round pick. Winston, in terms of his life after football, personal maturity and football development, would be well-served to stay in school. As it stands, I have no doubt he's considering it, but the potential football and earnings downside has to be monumental. Another reason he may be staying is that he is a potential first round pick in this spring's MLB draft, but only if he pitches well for FSU this spring. His earning potential in baseball is considerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 @Rand_Getlin: Receiving even more info on Jameis Winston's decision. Stay tuned. Things obviously change quickly, but he just might shock the world. @ProFootballTalk: Why would Jameis Winston wait until after Monday? Maybe he comes out only if Marcus Mariota doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Aand he already changed his mind Bruce Feldman @BruceFeldmanCFB 7m7 minutes ago Jameis Winston is leaving early for the NFL. The next 5 months of analysis of the #Noles QB's merits/issues will be interesting to observe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) people I'm not saying we should have drafted Beckham , my point to the OP was that our 19th pick would be better than our 50th I'm not saying we couldn't benefit from having our 1st, that's obviously not true, however.... If the last couple of years are any indications the guys who are going in the first aren't really spots we need. QB obviously but both of Jameis or Mariota will be long gone by 19 and everyone else is a major wildcard. Otherwise teams have been going almost exclusively with pass rushers, wide receivers, left tackles and corners in round 1. We are stocked up at all those positions. Our biggest needs appear to be interior line and TE and if the last few years are any indications there should be very good prospects in those positions available at pick 50. Edited January 7, 2015 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Aand he already changed his mind Bruce Feldman @BruceFeldmanCFB 7m7 minutes ago Jameis Winston is leaving early for the NFL. The next 5 months of analysis of the #Noles QB's merits/issues will be interesting to observe. I know you said his father said he was staying and baseball . . . but everything I am hearing was that this was completely expected by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I know you said his father said he was staying and baseball . . . but everything I am hearing was that this was completely expected by everyone. His dad did say all along he was coming back. I do think it was expected by everyone he would come out... but they had always said the opposite (no one believed them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 His dad did say all along he was coming back. I do think it was expected by everyone he would come out... but they had always said the opposite (no one believed them) I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. If he had a better head on his shoulders, he could be a star NFL qb. He still might be but I like my QBs to be the smartest guys on the team. Winston might be the dumbest. I'll glad we won't be in postion to draft him. He is the definition of a giant risk - too risky to trust and too risky to pass on because of his skill. The Titans should draft him because I forget they exist. Instant media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 You are way off. It would take a King's ransom to move up from #19 overall to #2 overall. I went back and got the actually traditional value. The Value of the #1 overall pick is 3000 points, the value of the #2 overall pick is 2600 points. The value of the #19 overall pick is 875. The value of every 19th pick from Rounds 1-7 is 1565 points. Basically to move up from #19 overall to #2 overall (and draft Winston) It would take the entire 2015 draft plus 2016 1st and 2nd. Usually future draft picks are discounted at 50%. To move up from #19 overall to #1 overall would probably take all the picks from 2015 draft, 2016#1, 2017#1 and probably a couple extra picks in either the 2016 or 2017 pick. This values are used to structure deals. You can go pack through actual NFL trades and do the point values and most are in line with these values that supposedly Jimmy Johnson put together. The Sammy deal did not "Mortgage the future" a deal like the ones it would take to move up from #19 to #2 would "Mortgage the future" and remember it would be to get Winston not Marriotta. Which would make people on this board lose their minds. "Very similar" does not mean exactly the same. And as hard as it would be to trade up from 19, trading up from the middle of the second round is going to be even harder. By trading down, we would have added a pick somewhere and who knows what could have been done with that? Wouldn't that 19th pick be useful if they want to take a shot with Hundley, or Mannion? Lastly, my point was that in hindsight we would have been better trading down and keeping our 2015 first round pick and even if we couldn't use that pick for a top 5 QB, and you are likely right about that, it would still be a great pick to have. The only downside is that we would have had to draft a WR other than Sammy and as it turns out, that wouldn't have been a problem. In hindsight, it would have been better if we did that than if we didn't, even if it didn't solve the QB problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 And this draft thread has turned into yet another Watkins trade thread. There are about a dozen to choose from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 would anyone here trade Sammy Watkins for CB Justin Gilbert & the 19th pick in the 2015 draft ? not me. we're not doomed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 "Very similar" does not mean exactly the same. And as hard as it would be to trade up from 19, trading up from the middle of the second round is going to be even harder. By trading down, we would have added a pick somewhere and who knows what could have been done with that? Wouldn't that 19th pick be useful if they want to take a shot with Hundley, or Mannion? Lastly, my point was that in hindsight we would have been better trading down and keeping our 2015 first round pick and even if we couldn't use that pick for a top 5 QB, and you are likely right about that, it would still be a great pick to have. The only downside is that we would have had to draft a WR other than Sammy and as it turns out, that wouldn't have been a problem. In hindsight, it would have been better if we did that than if we didn't, even if it didn't solve the QB problem. 1.)Draft Picks 2015 1-7 + 2016 1+2 is not "very similar" to the the deal that was made to move up #4 by any stretch of the English language. You're being dishonest by trying to make the assertion that the two deals are "very similar". 2.) Of Course having a 1st round pick in 2015 would be nice however the Bills weren't taking another WR at #1.09 in 2014. The story is very definitive, Whaley was taking Eric Ebron at 1.09. So we don't have to cherry pick examples of other successful rookie WRs. The equation is simple. Is Sammy Watkins > Eric Ebron + 2015 1.19. In my opinion I would rather have Sammy Watkins than Eric Ebron and 2015 1.10 (Which is what the Bills record would actually reap in the 2015 draft given the extra losses that Eric Ebron would generate.) In your opinion you appear to prefer Eric Ebron and 1.10. Thats great, that is your opinion. I'd take Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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