The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It'd be nice if Ruben elaborated considering guys are getting open and Kyle is missing them. I don't see any rhyme or reason behind which throws he can make and which he can't right now. Hes pretty erratic. What plays should Hackett call where you can still throw 8 feet behind the guy, into the dirt, or 10 yards past your WR and still be successful? These were my thoughts exactly. Uh oh. I'm sure that if you just keep beating us all over the head with your un-nuanced perspective, eventually some of us morons will start to see the light. I, for one, am very grateful for you. The sooner you guys come around, the happier we'll all be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 As long as 70 and 79 keep getting pushed back into Orton's face he will keep missing those wide open receivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 As long as 70 and 79 keep getting pushed back into Orton's face he will keep missing those wide open receivers As a counterpoint and an example symbolic of Orton's ineptitude, yesterday he started to scramble, sees a wide open Jackson and misses the easiest pitch and catch with no one within a 5-10 yard radius of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Isn't it possible that we need to upgrade at QB AND guard AND OC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I have to add that the wr did not help Orton these last few weeks. Again yesterday passes were dropped that should have been caught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Isn't it possible that we need to upgrade at QB AND guard AND OC? Sure, just not in that order. We could also use an upgrade at DE, LB, S and CB. Doesn't mean we'll prioritize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO, The thing that is limiting Orton is his own limitations. Orton is not only not a gunslinger type player, he never was. Right from the start of his career he was a game manager type of qb. Now he is at a stage of his career where his mediocre skills are quickly eroding. It's dispiriting to witness. Many people are blaming the coaching staff, mostly Hackett, for inhibiting him. What is limiting the playcalling is his own inability to execute basic plays. Kyle Orton is a veteran qb who has experienced a lot of situations. Even when he was young and more physically vibrant he was never asked to do too much because he was a limited qb. Those pedestrian skills have eroded to the point where those skills which were never abundant in the first place have diminished to the point where he is incapable of making basic plays. If the coaching staff is emphasizing to him not to screw it is for good reason. He is not capable of making impactful plays on his own. As it stands we are stuck with him. If he is brought back next year as a starter the front office should be charged with malfeasance. I have been a long time Bills fan. I know what ugly qb play is. This is beyond that: This is grotesquely bad qbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think we can all agree (or maybe not) that this thread is really just a slap fest about who is crappier, Hackett or Orton. How about they both suck and we need to have new people in those roles next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think we can all agree (or maybe not) that this thread is really just a slap fest about who is crappier, Hackett or Orton. How about they both suck and we need to have new people in those roles next year. Well, for starters, going into next season with Marrone, Schwartz, Hackett and Crossman would only be the fifth time this century that this organization has achieved that kind of continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think part of the problem is that Marrone and Hackett have neutered him. He is more of the gunslinger type. he will make mistakes but will throw a bunch of good passes too. That's what he did when he first came here. Since that time, and partly because the defense is so good, I think Marrone and Hackett are not letting him be himself. They say don't make mistakes so many times that he has no confidence throwing and he falls to the ground instead of making plays. They took the gunslinger mentality away from him and tries to make him a game manager and now he is scared to throw anything. He looks completely lost. He is missing 5 yard passes. Thats as much on them as it is him, IMO, I agree. I just re-watched the first half of the game. Our offense was given the ball 7 times (not counting the Thigpen runback) and totaled 3 points. Orton was probably directly responsible for 1 of those drives ending -- the one with the INT. Every other drive was stymied with the run getting completely stuffed, penalties, receivers slipping and falling down, dropped passes, or missed blocks resulting in sacks/pressure. There was an ugly 5 yd incompletion to Freddie, but that was on a 3rd and 18 and it didn't look like he was going to get the 1st even if he caught it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I agree. I just re-watched the first half of the game. Our offense was given the ball 7 times (not counting the Thigpen runback) and totaled 3 points. Orton was probably directly responsible for 1 of those drives ending -- the one with the INT. Every other drive was stymied with the run getting completely stuffed, penalties, receivers slipping and falling down, dropped passes, or missed blocks resulting in sacks/pressure. There was an ugly 5 yd incompletion to Freddie, but that was on a 3rd and 18 and it didn't look like he was going to get the 1st even if he caught it. The botched Woods throw/drop on a critical third down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 When Orton first came in, he was much better and progressively gotten worse and more scared back there. This describes every offensive player we have under Marrone/Hackett. It is so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The botched Woods throw/drop on a critical third down? I didn't see that in the first half. Woods dropped a ball that hit him in the hands on 1st and 10, then the next play was an INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I didn't see that in the first half. Woods dropped a ball that hit him in the hands on 1st and 10, then the next play was an INT. Ah my bad, I didn't realize you were focused only on the first half. It was in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Dear Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Isn't it possible that we need to upgrade at QB AND guard AND OC? Ding ding ding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) Well, for starters, going into next season with Marrone, Schwartz, Hackett and Crossman would only be the fifth time this century that this organization has achieved that kind of continuity. Marrone and Hackett have continuously sucked since they got here. Marrone has been caught in lies weekly. That's the wrong kind of continuity. Crossman needed us to sign about 40 special teamers for his stuff to work....it has worked but it has cost us roster spots. Edited December 15, 2014 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 As long as 70 and 79 keep getting pushed back into Orton's face he will keep missing those wide open receivers Might help if Orton learned how to sidestep in the pocket. Can't keep a play alive to save his life. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Well, for starters, going into next season with Marrone, Schwartz, Hackett and Crossman would only be the fifth time this century that this organization has achieved that kind of continuity. The Bills had continuity with Jauron, Fewell, Fairchild, and April from 2006 to 2007. Or Gailey, Modkins, and DeHaven in 2011-12. Neither coaching alignment worked out. Continuity is overrated. Five times in 15 seasons. Sounds like they just hired a lot of bad coordinators, not that those coordinators didn't hang around long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I have to add that the wr did not help Orton these last few weeks. Again yesterday passes were dropped that should have been caught Ahh yes now its the receivers fault. Orton is making the same mistakes EJ was with a much longer leash from the fans. He was an improvement in October. Since then he's been pretty rough. Yesterday, i'm not sure he wasn't better than Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 More and more this has been my take on the whole OC debacle this season, and it was reinforced yesterday by my buddy--who loves to hate Hackett--who texted from the game what I've feared to be true this whole time: Orton has been so bad, that it's virtually impossible to fairly evaluate the OC and the offense he's trying to run. I'm repeating what I've heard every single coach, scout and player say on this. Also, how do you explain the way EVERY new quarterback regresses back to the mean? Some things are really complicated, and running a successful offense in the NFL likely falls into that category. Some things are not that complicated, like consistently stuggling to score touchdowns in the NFL. When KO underthrew for the kick yesterday, and overthrew Sammy later in the game, it was not the first time those two events happened. I want the guy to succeed, but he seems to be a guy who earned the right to be on his 5th team in the league. I don't know that Hackett is the problem here--and I'll say this--Marrone should be held accountable for the teams w/l record and mistakes he makes. He should also get credit for both the Petine and Schwartz hires, and for sticking by Crossman because he thought his plan was a good one. Players have to execute at some point, and while I'm just a guy watching the Bills, I've seen a fair amount of poor exceution on the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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