Marrone Hackett Seal Their Fate

[OCinBuffalo]

Show me where I ever said any of this. Once again you're arguing against yourself. And somehow, losing.

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

The coaches aren't responsible for getting the talent. That's the GM/Scout's job.

 

GreggyT, on 07 December 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

And Whaley has -- but there's no accounting for Marrone's decision to keep proven playmakers inactive.

 

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Names.

 

Dude, it's not like this is a 40 page PPP thread. You said this 2 pages ago. Now cut the crap. You brought this up, because I was making it clear to the dolt OP that it's not Marrone's job to put players on this team.

 

Own your own tangent.

[Deranged Rhino]

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

The coaches aren't responsible for getting the talent. That's the GM/Scout's job.

 

GreggyT, on 07 December 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

And Whaley has -- but there's no accounting for Marrone's decision to keep proven playmakers inactive.

 

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Names.

 

Dude, it's not like this is a 40 page PPP thread. You said this 2 pages ago. Now cut the crap. You brought this up, because I was making it clear to the dolt OP that it's not Marrone's job to put players on this team.

 

Own your own tangent.

 

You just made my case. I never said anything about getting fired. All I said was Marrone's keeping proven playmakers on ice. And he is. You're the only one who thinks what I said is somehow controversial.

[K-9]

That's flat wrong. Orton had a lot of time on a lot of passes. We had some decent runs up the middle. Urbik looked awful on that one sack they showed over and over.

 

Wasn't it Urbik called for the hold on Freddy's 25 yard catch and run? That was a 35 yard penalty and just killed us at the time.

 

But you are dead on about Orton. He has NO movement skills in the pocket whatsoever. Just a simple slide step here and there and he can extend a play to find the open guys he's routinely missing. Ugh! I can't even talk about Orton anymore.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[OCinBuffalo]

That's flat wrong. Orton had a lot of time on a lot of passes. We had some decent runs up the middle. Urbik looked awful on that one sack they showed over and over.

Oh, so is it that we should fire Marrone for playing Urbik, or fire him for not playing Urbik?

 

This argument keeps getting more hilarious....for me.

 

Urbik got a holding penalty, got blown up 3 times that I can recall on running plays, and should be washing Fred's car this week because Freddy saved his ass on a 3rd and 1 where Urbik was abused, but Fred squeaked by anyway.

 

Spare us the Urbik played "well", because it makes....some point....somewhere...that somehow overrides the point that Marrone caught hell from the nonsene brokers on this board, that not playing Urbik = mortal sin.

 

The fact is today demonstrated very clearly why Urbik found his ass on the bench, and why he will soon return.

Edited December 8, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Wasn't it Urbik called for the hold on Freddy's 25 yard catch and run? That was a 35 yard penalty and just killed us at the time.

 

But you are dead on about Orton. He has NO movement skills in the pocket whatsoever. Just a simple slide step here and there and he can extend a play to find the open guys he's routinely missing. Ugh! I can't even talk about Orton anymore.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Yes. He was called for that hold.

 

 

Oh, so is it that we should fire Marrone for playing Urbik, or fire him for not playing Urbik?

 

This argument keeps getting more hilarious....for me.

 

Urbik got a holding penalty, got blown up 3 times that I can recall on running plays, and should be washing Fred's car this week because Freddy saved his ass on a 3rd and 1 where Urbik was abused, but Fred squeaked by anyway.

 

Spare us the Urbik played "well", because it makes....some point....somewhere...that someone overrides the point that Marrone caught hell from the nonsene brokers on this board, that not playing Urbik = mortal sin.

 

The fact is today demonstrated very clearly why Urbik found his ass on the bench, and why he will soon return.

Wanna bet? Any amount of money?

[OCinBuffalo]

You just made my case. I never said anything about getting fired. All I said was Marrone's keeping proven playmakers on ice. And he is. You're the only one who thinks what I said is somehow controversial.

In a pigs ass.

 

Look, I gave you the links, if you are having trouble with reading comprehension again, that's not my fault. The fact is the OP is the one who said Marrone should be fired for "not getting the right players". I corrected him, and then YOU started talking about not playing the right "players".

 

Still waiting for another name that turns Mike Williams from "player" into "players" and you can't use Urbik, as I already debunked that one.

 

But, I suppose, like in a specific thread on PPP right now, you'll ignore the response and just repeat yourself.

[Deranged Rhino]

In a pigs ass.

 

Look, I gave you the links, if you are having trouble with reading comprehension again, that's not my fault. The fact is the OP is the one who said Marrone should be fired for "not getting the right players". I corrected him, and then YOU started talking about not playing the right "players".

 

Still waiting for another name that turns Mike Williams from "player" into "players" and you can't use Urbik, as I already debunked that one.

 

But, I suppose, like in a specific thread on PPP right now, you'll ignore the response and just repeat yourself.

 

It doesn't matter how many times you explain it, you're still wrong.

 

[OCinBuffalo]

Wanna bet? Any amount of money?

I don't want to take your money dude. I already have more than I will ever need.

 

How about pushups? We can do the honor system, or, we can use youtube?

 

And, what's the actual bet? Urbik has to ride the pine all 3 games left, or he finds himself there for the first quarter next game, but makes a triumphant return, when whoever he replaces Fs up even worse than he did today?

 

You seem to be missing the point: 7 weeks ago not starting Urbik was considered by some to be proof that Marrone was a bad coach. Today, that looks awfully stupid. We need 2 competent guards, and we don't have them. Period. It's not like we didn't have a plan: signed a FA, drafted 2 O lineman. The plan didn't work.

 

Exactly none of that sticks to Marrone.

 

It doesn't matter how many times you explain it, you're still wrong.

 

Yeah. That's right, just like in the other thread. You're out of options/talking points, and this is what your argument boils down to:

 

"SHOMER SHABBAS!"

 

Same old, same old.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I don't want to take your money dude. I already have more than I will ever need.

 

How about pushups? We can do the honor system, or, we can use youtube?

 

And, what's the actual bet? Urbik has to ride the pine all 3 games left, or he finds himself there for the first quarter next game, but makes a triumphant return, when whoever he replaces Fs up even worse than he did today?

 

You seem to be missing the point: 7 weeks ago not starting Urbik was considered by some to be proof that Marrone was a bad coach. Today, that looks awfully stupid. We need 2 competent guards, and we don't have them. Period. It's not like we didn't have a plan: signed a FA, drafted 2 O lineman. The plan didn't work.

 

Exactly none of that sticks to Marrone.

The last three games he played our OL played better and he played far better than the disasters before him. I'll bet you $1000 he doesn't get benched. You have so much money you won't need it. I'll give it to the Daryl Talley fund.

[Deranged Rhino]

Yeah. That's right, just like in the other thread. You're out of options/talking points, and this is what your argument boils down to:

 

"SHOMER SHABBAS!"

 

Same old, same old.

 

You still haven't accurately understood or articulated my argument, which probably explains why you're still arguing with yourself about a tangent that only you seem to think is controversial.

 

I asked you to show me where I said Marrone should be fired, and you couldn't do it. What I did say was point out the limitations of your comment on the GM's role. Yes, GMs build teams but it's up to the coaches to use the talent their given properly. Marrone has not done that in my mind. When you asked me for a name, I gave you MW which you rejected because there's no way to know if he's truly better than Hogan.

 

Which is garbage.

 

But I haven't called for Marrone to be fired once... yet.

[OCinBuffalo]

You still haven't accurately understood or articulated my argument, which probably explains why you're still arguing with yourself about a tangent that only you seem to think is controversial.

 

I asked you to show me where I said Marrone should be fired, and you couldn't do it. What I did say was point out the limitations of your comment on the GM's role. Yes, GMs build teams but it's up to the coaches to use the talent their given properly. Marrone has not done that in my mind. When you asked me for a name, I gave you MW which you rejected because there's no way to know if he's truly better than Hogan.

 

Which is garbage.

 

But I haven't called for Marrone to be fired once... yet.

Jesus. Do you not even read your own posts? You didn't ask me where you said Marrone should be fired, you asked me where you brought up Marrone not playing players. Now, you've conveniently jumped from one thing to another, and are sitting here all "Who me? "

 

As I said, cut the crap. You brought up Marrone not playing players....in response to me telling a clown that marrone has nothing to do with getting players.

 

I expect the "out of context" excuse in 5...4...3...Oh wait....that's what this already is, isn't it?

 

This entire thread is about "fates being sealed". That is the context under which we are currently operating in this thread. By definition, if you aren't talking about firing/not firing Marrone, then you are on a tangent. (I love it when they walk right into it. Entirely too easy this time GreggyT) So, remind us all who is on a tangent here?

 

 

If you want to start a thread about not playing your favorite player, Mike Williams, go elsewhere and do that. I don't think anybody will care, but, hey you never know.

[Rocky Landing]

My prediction for next season:

Marrone, and Orton will stay.

Hackett, and Manuel will be gone.

[Fixxxer]

My prediction for next season:

Marrone, and Orton will stay.

Hackett, and Manuel will be gone.

 

WTF will he be gone? There is no plausible reason for him to be gone except wishful thinking by some fans.

[OCinBuffalo]

The last three games he played our OL played better and he played far better than the disasters before him. I'll bet you $1000 he doesn't get benched. You have so much money you won't need it. I'll give it to the Daryl Talley fund.

I already asked: what does "benched" mean specifically? Benched for the season? Benched for a game? Come on.

 

You know what? Forget it. I'm not gonna bet you anything. I'm just going to sit here, meditate, and try to convince(BS) myself that Kyle Urbik is a actually a competent NFL guard. Somehow you've been able to accomplish that. I want to figure out how you've done that. Besides, I'm interested in pushing my BS tolerance, which I'm told is very low, to a higher level. Perhaps some day I can aspire to be at your level, but I know it will be a long, hard journey.

 

After all, it's guys like you that are always clamoring for more tolerance, right? Mike Vick's Culture. We should be tolerant! (Now how's that for a tangent?)

Edited December 8, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Deranged Rhino]

Jesus. Do you not even read your own posts? You didn't ask me where you said Marrone should be fired, you asked me where you brought up Marrone not playing players. Now, you've conveniently jumped from one thing to another, and are sitting here all "Who me? "

 

I'm beginning to think I'm the only one doing any reading at all:

 

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Sorry, but, the only tangent that's going on here is yours: there's no way in hell Marrone should be fired because one player isn't playing(and even that is questionable)....when the other starting ~30, on all 3 units, are doing more than any other Bills units have in 10 years.

Show me where I ever said any of this. Once again you're arguing against yourself. And somehow, losing.

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

The coaches aren't responsible for getting the talent. That's the GM/Scout's job.

 

GreggyT, on 07 December 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

And Whaley has -- but there's no accounting for Marrone's decision to keep proven playmakers inactive.

 

OCinBuffalo, on 07 December 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Names.

 

Like I said. You're not even paying attention to what you're trying to argue against. It's hilarious.

 

I already asked: what does "benched" mean specifically? Benched for the season? Benched for a game? Come on.

 

You're the one who said he'd be benched and then you're arguing about the definition as if Kelly was the one who said it!

 

You need more of these, loosen up!

[OCinBuffalo]

I'm beginning to think I'm the only one doing any reading at all:

Like I said. You're not even paying attention to what you're trying to argue against. It's hilarious.

Names. Still wating for you to make "name" plural, as I've already proven your "switcheroo" to be, well, exactly what it is. You know what else is funny? I just proved that this is the GreggyT Tangent, and you've just confirmed it. IF you aren't talking about firing Marrone....then basically, WTF are you doing in a thread entitled "Marrone and Hackett Seal Their Fate", and telling other posters they are "on a tangent", at the same time?

 

Buddy, you stepped in it. No amount of dissembling is going to get you out of it. After all, you are dealing with OCinBuffalo, this handle is(in public) a pitbull, and you know that.

 

But, go ahead, try some more dissembling. I've got about 30 more minutes here before I hit the sack. The real me has a real meeting in 4 hours.

[thewildrabbit]

I usually hate Hackett, and dislike the way Marrone runs his offense. This game I can't complain about anything other then the knuckle bumping refs who gave the game to Denver.

 

The Bills found it impossible to beat the broncos at Denver, and beat the bad calls at the same time. Mysterious invisible calls on the two INT returns.11 penalties for 98 yards.

 

Orton looked like crap, but then he out played Manning. Speaking of Manning his uni was as clean at the end of the game as when it started, as he never even got touched....much less hit.

[Deranged Rhino]

Names. Still wating for you to make "name" plural, as I've already proven your "switcheroo" to be, well, exactly what it is. You know what else is funny? I just proved that this is the GreggyT Tangent, and you've just confirmed it. IF you aren't talking about firing Marrone....then basically, WTF are you doing in a thread entitled "Marrone and Hackett Seal Their Fate", and telling other posters they are "on a tangent", at the same time?

 

Buddy, you stepped in it. No amount of dissembling is going to get you out of it. After all, you are dealing with OCinBuffalo, this handle is(in public) a pitbull, and you know that.

 

But, go ahead, try some more dissembling. I've got about 30 more minutes here before I hit the sack. The real me has a real meeting in 4 hours.

 

We've hit the "I meant to mess up, and knew what I was doing this whole time" section of the OC playbook, folks! Right on schedule!

[mannc]

 

No. The worst thing you can do is give Peyton Manning the ball on our 20 yard line, and have him score another TD, or merely a FG....

 

...which would have sealed our fate...

 

...regardles of the time on the clock.

The game was over as soon as the punter walked on to the field. They gave themselves close to zero chance of winning by punting the ball back to Peyton manning, down by 14 points with six minutes left. Punting in that situation is a fireable offense.

[Rocky Landing]

WTF will he be gone? There is no plausible reason for him to be gone except wishful thinking by some fans.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not an EJ hater, and I know there are plenty on this board. But, I don't think we are going to find a viable FA QB to replace Orton, I don't believe anyone at OBD has enough faith in EJ to start him, and I don't believe that OBD is going to sit on our QB situation as is. They have to be seen as moving forward on the position. The only way I see them holding onto EJ, is if they find another vet in FA that will replace Orton, and Manuel remains as backup. Otherwise, we draft a different prospect (and I have no idea who that would be), or we upgrade the back up position in FA, and wait until 2016 to draft a rookie.

 

And, again, this is just my prediction.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Rocky Landing

[Bills Realist]

Marrone and Hackett and Pettine/Schwartz have made the Bills relevant in December(and we still have a 41.6% chance if we win out) for the first time in 10 years.

 

And that means they've sealed their fate? :lol: Yet another dude trying to disprove the "Bills fans are the most knowledgeable in the NFL" adage.

 

Seriously. The go in as 9.5 dogs, and not only cover, but make it a game after making all sorts of execution(not coaching) errors, and you're talking about 4th down calls? If Chandler goes up and gets the ball on 4th and 6? This is a different game. That was a great call, and we have to expect Chandler to make that play. Meanwhile with the game on the line, you want us to take a chance that if we miss, we have 0 chance, rather than punt, and still have a chance? We scored a TD right after punting.

 

So tired of this broken record/non-thinking about Marrone/Hackett. The man has done a hell of a job with at best average(right now) QBs and losing both his stud RBs for much of the season, and is playing WRs who haven't played for 3 years(used to be the rule that it takes that long for a WR to learn the game).

 

I don't know where in WNY this non-thinking originates, but if I find it, I will respond. Perhaps I will pay a farmer to drop 1 ton of manure there.

 

 

This is what I mean when I say "The Bills are not your problem".

 

EDIT: We go in and give the best team in the league, and the best QB to ever play the game, hell, and his worst rating in 6 years, and that seals fates? Patently retarded.

 

Actually, it was the defense that gave Manning hell. The offense sure as hell didn't give Denver's defense any problems.

 

I love seeing obvious fanboy posts like yours. It really shows just who is "patently retarded".

[Big Gun]

I am firmly not with any group calling for Hackett +/or Marrone being fired..any successful NFL franchise requires continuity and stability for the coaches and front office..fire them for what? To get whom? Really am frustrated at the he Bills loss today but equally frustrated at the calls to let these guys go..How about giving them the minimum 3 to 5 years it takes to turn around this perpetually broken and losing franchise? Count me in the apparent minority of Bills fans who know we are definitely moving in the right direction.. 14 years of non playoff appearances are not fixed by dumpling the O coordinator and Head Coach every other year!!!!!

 

+1 A effing men brother I hear ya!

[xsoldier54]

This game turned on two early calls. The phantom illegal contact that allowed Denver to score a touchdown instead of a field goal and the illegal block in the back on the INT return. That ended up being a 40 yard penalty. It took us from the Denver 20 to our own 38. If those two calls had not been made, I firmly believe we would have gone up 7-3 instead of being down 14-3 and that makes for a whole different ball game. Those two calls resulted in a possible 11 point swing in a game that we lost by 7. There were other calls that were similar, but it was clear from the very beginning that the NFL was not going to allow Buffalo to win this game. Every single time they did something good, the officials took it away. Make no mistake, it was not the HC or OC that lost this game for the Bills. It was a done deal from the first quarter on. The fix was in. I know this won't be a very popular opinion, but I have been watching the NFL long enough that I could see very early on where this game was headed. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[section122]

That is a 37.3% chance of ending the game right then and there. Terrible odds

 

Yes. What people are missing is that a fg for Den was a formality at that point if the Bills don't convert. That puts them down 17 or 3 scores for those bad at math. The way the Bills played it gave them a chance to get the ball back and win. How can anyone question this?!?!!?

 

Look at what a kitty McCoy and Reich are punting from midfield down 9 with 6 minutes to go.

 

Only Marrone does it though.

 

Well therein lies the rub Cat. You are assuming that these people watch any other games. More and more lately I'm getting the feeling that people don't watch ANY other teams.

 

Wasn't it Urbik called for the hold on Freddy's 25 yard catch and run? That was a 35 yard penalty and just killed us at the time.

 

But you are dead on about Orton. He has NO movement skills in the pocket whatsoever. Just a simple slide step here and there and he can extend a play to find the open guys he's routinely missing. Ugh! I can't even talk about Orton anymore.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Twice Orton just turned his back in the pocket and waited for contact. Once it never came and he was caught off guard. This guy is the worst. I feel bad for Hackett, I seriously do. Thad and Tuel don't belong on the field, EJ is a project, and Orton is a career backup. This guy has been given garbage at the most important position in sports and it will likely cost him his job. For all the whining about the redzone offense, I can think of 2 Orton picks in the endzone, a Hogan fumble in the redzone, and a Bryce fumble in the red zone just off the top of my head. He called a very good game yesterday and has been for the last few weeks. He has just been getting Ortoned.

 

This game turned on two early calls. The phantom illegal contact that allowed Denver to score a touchdown instead of a field goal and the illegal block in the back on the INT return. That ended up being a 40 yard penalty. It took us from the Denver 20 to our own 38. If those two calls had not been made, I firmly believe we would have gone up 7-3 instead of being down 14-3 and that makes for a whole different ball game. Those two calls resulted in a possible 11 point swing in a game that we lost by 7. There were other calls that were similar, but it was clear from the very beginning that the NFL was not going to allow Buffalo to win this game. Every single time they did something good, the officials took it away. Make no mistake, it was not the HC or OC that lost this game for the Bills. It was a done deal from the first quarter on. The fix was in. I know this won't be a very popular opinion, but I have been watching the NFL long enough that I could see very early on where this game was headed. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

My "favorite" was the bs call on Gillmore on the Sanders hit. That wasn't pass interference. The refs got bailed out though by Hughes drawing yet another personal foul flag but that conversation belongs in a different thread. I agree though 11 points were gifted to the Broncos in this game. All game long I kept thinking about how differently it would be playing out.

[Pondslider]

Yes. What people are missing is that a fg for Den was a formality at that point if the Bills don't convert. That puts them down 17 or 3 scores for those bad at math. The way the Bills played it gave them a chance to get the ball back and win. How can anyone question this?!?!!?

 

 

Well they punted and everything worked out for them about as well they could have planned for it and they still lost because the offense only got the ball back once when they needed two scores. So maybe that's why people question it? Being down 2 scores is the same as being down 3 scores if you only score once.

 

Why didn't they punt the ball on 4th and 16? There were still over 3 minutes left. If they hadn't converted it Denver could have scored a TD and 2 point conversion and then where would they have been!?!

[ProcessAccepted]

I actually think Orton/Ej have been told to check down. How do you explain two completely different QBs playing the same way? Granted EJ culdnt hit an open reciever, But both seem to have Trent Edwards disease. Today was the most innovative we have seen this offense. And they rode those plays all day.

 

The most important word here is "think". We keep coming up with thoughts and believe them to be fact. Could it simply be that we do not have a good option at QB? Teams that win consistently have an solid answer at that position. We are an 8-8 team that could have been 10-6 if we hadn't blown games like the Texans and Chiefs. Better QB play would have gotten us those two wins.

 

Another thing I'm finding funny is how many people want to keep Schwartz as DC and the call to hire Harbaugh as HC. If those things were to happen I'm sure it would make for some interesting handshakes

[section122]

Well they punted and everything worked out for them about as well they could have planned for it and they still lost because the offense only got the ball back once when they needed two scores. So maybe that's why people question it? Being down 2 scores is the same as being down 3 scores if you only score once.

 

Why didn't they punt the ball on 4th and 16? There were still over 3 minutes left. If they hadn't converted it Denver could have scored a TD and 2 point conversion and then where would they have been!?!

You can't be serious with this. Sure the Bills only got the ball back once but they had a chance to get it back twice. Now if they had a chance to get it 3 times your argument would hold merit. They lost by 1 score and had a chance to get the ball back to tie it. It didn't work out but how is that worse than getting the ball once and losing by 2 scores? 6 minutes left and 3 minutes left are 2 totally different things. You can't be serious thinking they are the same idea can you?

[Pondslider]

You can't be serious with this. Sure the Bills only got the ball back once but they had a chance to get it back twice. Now if they had a chance to get it 3 times your argument would hold merit. They lost by 1 score and had a chance to get the ball back to tie it. It didn't work out but how is that worse than getting the ball once and losing by 2 scores? 6 minutes left and 3 minutes left are 2 totally different things. You can't be serious thinking they are the same idea can you?

 

They had a minuscule chance of getting the ball back twice. An onside kick with less than a minute technically counts as a chance I guess? They would have had a better chance if they hadn't punted. And that's the point I've been making.

 

That and in the end it doesn't matter whether they lose by 1 score or 3 scores. I don't give them credit for making it close.

[TheFunPolice]

4th and short is much more favorable than recovering an onside kick and it isn't even close

 

Either way...if you fail you are going to lose