GoBills808 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Not really. In a real business, you wouldn't expect a goat to do a horse's job, or vice versa. So whoever came up with that quote is an unmitigated moron. You never read Looking Backwards? Duuuuuude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Completely different. His profit motivation is angelic, wholesome, and pure as the driven snow. Heh. I'm responsive to the same market forces we all are, no different at all. But is it possible that maybe, just maybe, paying better wages can have a positive effect on the bottom line if managed properly even in accordance with the immutability of today's capitalist philosophies ? Because that's what we're talking about, right? I realize my experience isn't representative or necessarily indicative of any larger argument than what works for a single entity in isolation, and who knows if the results are replicable. I'm not really advocating for anything here except a dialogue, because I find it a truly fascinating subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Heh. I'm responsive to the same market forces we all are, no different at all. But is it possible that maybe, just maybe, paying better wages can have a positive effect on the bottom line if managed properly even in accordance with the immutability of today's capitalist philosophies ? Because that's what we're talking about, right? I realize my experience isn't representative or necessarily indicative of any larger argument than what works for a single entity in isolation, and who knows if the results are replicable. I'm not really advocating for anything here except a dialogue, because I find it a truly fascinating subject. Employee morale is a capital investment. So raising wages can increase production, the same way buying a more efficient MPG van can reduce shipping costs. You're still using the same capitalist system to run your business, even if it also gives you an excuse to be smug. Now try increasing everyone's wages regardless of their production/attitude (ie: a Union). I want to see a real profit sharing system survive for a long period of time. It doesn't even work in Farmer's markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Heh. I'm responsive to the same market forces we all are, no different at all. But is it possible that maybe, just maybe, paying better wages can have a positive effect on the bottom line if managed properly even in accordance with the immutability of today's capitalist philosophies ? Because that's what we're talking about, right? I realize my experience isn't representative or necessarily indicative of any larger argument than what works for a single entity in isolation, and who knows if the results are replicable. I'm not really advocating for anything here except a dialogue, because I find it a truly fascinating subject. You're absolutely entitled to run your business as you see fit, and to pay your employees whatever you wish. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. We were discussing wages and compensation in the context of a national minimum wage of $15 per hour, which many people see as a completely arbitrary and artificially high wage for what is mostly unskilled labor. My disagreement with you was with regard to the imposition of such an inflated wage on a national level. But again, your business is yours to run, and I believe what you pay your employees is strictly up to you, and should not be subject to further regulatory control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I walked by a small gathering on the way to the ferry after work today. 4 or 5 Mexicans standing/sitting around doing not much....except wearing "Fight for $15" tees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Heh. I'm responsive to the same market forces we all are, no different at all. But is it possible that maybe, just maybe, paying better wages can have a positive effect on the bottom line if managed properly even in accordance with the immutability of today's capitalist philosophies ? Because that's what we're talking about, right? I realize my experience isn't representative or necessarily indicative of any larger argument than what works for a single entity in isolation, and who knows if the results are replicable. I'm not really advocating for anything here except a dialogue, because I find it a truly fascinating subject. I expect what you see as above market wages are actually price of labor valuations dictated by the market. You pay a wage that the market allows and apparently get a good return on your investment due to increased retention, loyalty, and hiring options. The wages you pay are an example of how the market pushes up wages for labor that is naturally in demand. You're absolutely entitled to run your business as you see fit, and to pay your employees whatever you wish. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. We were discussing wages and compensation in the context of a national minimum wage of $15 per hour, which many people see as a completely arbitrary and artificially high wage for what is mostly unskilled labor. My disagreement with you was with regard to the imposition of such an inflated wage on a national level. But again, your business is yours to run, and I believe what you pay your employees is strictly up to you, and should not be subject to further regulatory control. It's also not feasible because the value is drastically different across regions. For example, in the area where I work $15/hr at 40 hrs/wk can barely get you an efficiency while an hour and a half away you could live comfortably on it. A one size fits all minimum wage is an absurdity of monumental proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Not really. In a real business, you wouldn't expect a goat to do a horse's job, or vice versa. So whoever came up with that quote is an unmitigated moron. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 You never read Looking Backwards? Duuuuuude... Obviously not. And if I had, I'd have the same comment on the stupid analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 A one size fits all minimum wage is an absurdity of monumental proportions. Yep, that's the way I see it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Doing just fine, actually! My guys get paid well above prevailing wages and production is up.a goat is worth about $30. You paying then $15 an hour is ludacris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 a goat is worth about $30. You paying then $15 an hour is ludacris Being able to buy 4 goats per day (assuming 8 hours/day) is a darn good living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Being able to buy 4 goats per day (assuming 8 hours/day) is a darn good living. Boyst has no need for more than one goat. Any more and he might have a jealousy problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Boyst has no need for more than one goat. Any more and he might have a jealousy problem. I think that's why he's diversifying into sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The real world analogy would be the business owner getting rid of the goat and buying another horse. The goat would then demand that he be treated like a horse, because he identifies as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The real world analogy would be the business owner getting rid of the goat and buying another horse. The goat would then demand that he be treated like a horse, because he identifies as one. And a certain subset of very noisy donkeys would bray about the business owner being a capraphobic hippoist. #EquinePrivilige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The real world analogy would be the business owner getting rid of the goat and buying another horse. The goat would then demand that he be treated like a horse, because he identifies as one. we are talking about goats. Take you to tasker stopped reading at anal and smiled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I expect what you see as above market wages are actually price of labor valuations dictated by the market. You pay a wage that the market allows and apparently get a good return on your investment due to increased retention, loyalty, and hiring options. The wages you pay are an example of how the market pushes up wages for labor that is naturally in demand. It's also not feasible because the value is drastically different across regions. For example, in the area where I work $15/hr at 40 hrs/wk can barely get you an efficiency while an hour and a half away you could live comfortably on it. A one size fits all minimum wage is an absurdity of monumental proportions. I like this. How would you feel about an area adjusted minimum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I like this. How would you feel about an area adjusted minimum? It's only the third worst idea you've supported in this thread, so... an improvement I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I like this. How would you feel about an area adjusted minimum? I don't like price controls in any form, and the regional solution has logistical difficulties all its own, so I don't think it would achieve the desired effect either, but at least conceptually it would be an improvement over this current nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I don't like price controls in any form, and the regional solution has logistical difficulties all its own, so I don't think it would achieve the desired effect either, but at least conceptually it would be an improvement over this current nonsense. Market forces should determine what the minimum wage should be in each area. $9 an hour isn't going get the Micky D's franchisee any help in Manhattan but it might work in Gowanda, NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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