Azalin Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 This is just stupid. I was on topic, you guys are derailing this thread. I changed my name cause I wanted a new one. No secret about it. You are a joke You changed your name because you knew people had started putting you on "ignore". You suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Random, pre-coffee musing: Is it possible that a hike to $15 dollars minimum wage is what a lot of large companies want (not all of course, not even the majority)? Not because they intend to pay that, but because it will give them an excuse to automate a large percentage of their lower paid positions without suffering as big a hit in PR? Maybe they want it to put the smaller companies out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Random, pre-coffee musing: Is it possible that a hike to $15 dollars minimum wage is what a lot of large companies want (not all of course, not even the majority)? Not because they intend to pay that, but because it will give them an excuse to automate a large percentage of their lower paid positions without suffering as big a hit in PR? It also grants them a larger market share, as large corporations are more easily able to absorb costs and automate than small and medium sized businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 They will still need labor. The higher wages will INCREASE demand for other goods and services so labor might actually increase because of this. Understand that? Well sparky you failed to account for where the higher wages come from. For someone to get paid more someone else is going to have to pay more. So, for example, if a dollar raise means the buyer has to spend a dollar more for the same product the only thing that has changed is who has that dollar. The buyer now has a dollar less and the seller now has a dollar more. The supply of money hasn't changed and therefore neither has the demand. What part of that don't you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 You changed your name because you knew people had started putting you on "ignore". You suck. Thread derailer again. And now you read minds? You are a complete idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Well sparky you failed to account for where the higher wages come from. For someone to get paid more someone else is going to have to pay more. So, for example, if a dollar raise means the buyer has to spend a dollar more for the same product the only thing that has changed is who has that dollar. The buyer now has a dollar less and the seller now has a dollar more. The supply of money hasn't changed and therefore neither has the demand. What part of that don't you understand? Well thought out argument but there is a problem with it. You are taking on 18th century thinking about the money supply. There is no set amount of money. As a matter of fact the Fed is almost begging businesses to borrow more to put more in circulation. So you are wrong that the money supply doesn't change. Now, will increased minimum wage increase borrowing and thus have the money multiplier effect? We could see businesses with more customers borrowing more to cater to them. Consumers would also be able to borrow more with a higher income to back up the loans. Not saying this WILL happen, but it could, Jury is still out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 . What part of that don't you understand? Everything, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Well thought out argument but there is a problem with it. You are taking on 18th century thinking about the money supply. There is no set amount of money. As a matter of fact the Fed is almost begging businesses to borrow more to put more in circulation. So you are wrong that the money supply doesn't change. Now, will increased minimum wage increase borrowing and thus have the money multiplier effect? We could see businesses with more customers borrowing more to cater to them. Consumers would also be able to borrow more with a higher income to back up the loans. Not saying this WILL happen, but it could, Jury is still out An idiot by any other name... Please tell us how well it works for your company. Tell us how you pay all your labor a minimum $15/hour wage, and the positive effect it has had on the growth of your company and the economy of the area in which your company operates. Go ahead. We'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 An idiot by any other name... Please tell us how well it works for your company. Tell us how you pay all your labor a minimum $15/hour wage, and the positive effect it has had on the growth of your company and the economy of the area in which your company operates. Go ahead. We'll wait. First off, you are a complete POS idiot and prove it constantly, thank you. Now, we would have more willing employees who would work harder for the higher wage; depending on what we sell, we would sell more to our own employees and hopefully the new wage would improve the economy by bringing more marginal workers that would not work for the old wage into the economy thus increasing consumption all around. Also, the wage push or ripple effect: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/01/10-ripple-effect-of-increasing-the-minimum-wage-kearney-harriswould produce even more positive results. Not that I would see it as a cure all or anything. Just looking at it through the rose colored glasses of positive expectations Kiss Everything, obviously. Myopic man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Now, we would have more willing employees who would work harder for the higher wage; Who is this "we" you're talking about? Do you pay your employees a minimum wage of $15/hour or better? How many employees do you have? What percentage has your business grown since you raised their income? How has your elevated wages impacted your local economy? Oh, wait, you mean the universal "we" that you somehow thinks applies to everyone, but actually only applies to the people who own companies and have to make payroll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Who is this "we" you're talking about? Do you pay your employees a minimum wage of $15/hour or better? How many employees do you have? What percentage has your business grown since you raised their income? How has your elevated wages impacted your local economy? Oh, wait, you mean the universal "we" that you somehow thinks applies to everyone, but actually only applies to the people who own companies and have to make payroll? Economic growth raises all the boats....at least in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gator just stfu. All small business owners might as well close their doors if this goes anywhere. Eff them right ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Gator just stfu. All small business owners might as well close their doors if this goes anywhere. Eff them right ?? It's going up, and small business will probably be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Economic growth raises all the boats....at least in the long run You didn't answer my questions. Let's do this one at a time to make it really simple for you. How long ago did you raise all of your employees' salaries to minimum $15/hour and above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Economic growth raises all the boats....at least in the long run What you and other liberals are proposing is a wealth distribution scheme on the private sector by federal fiat. If A has the money, lets mandate them to share more of the pie to B. Which should equal more economic growth, right? Considering that A will just horde their money and stuff it away somewhere in Panama, doing no good for the overall well being of the economy. Whereas if they just shared the wealth by mandate, B the deserving party will actually use that money and pump it back into the economy. That's the thinking, right? I say this in all seriousness, liberal economic orthodoxy is so linear and full of holes. Anyone thinking that the government is going to help drive the economy through some sort of minimum wage scheme really has no grasp of the economy. The minimum wage is there in my view to help stop abuses by some employers, not as some sort of economic panacea. It's a regulatory measure to help around the edges, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) The minimum wage is there in my view to help stop abuses by some employers, not as some sort of economic panacea. It's a regulatory measure to help around the edges, nothing more. Nowadays it's used more as a wedge issue, as well as a tool for the feds to reap more tax revenues. Edited April 19, 2016 by Azalin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 What you and other liberals are proposing is a wealth distribution scheme on the private sector by federal fiat. If A has the money, lets mandate them to share more of the pie to B. Which should equal more economic growth, right? Considering that A will just horde their money and stuff it away somewhere in Panama, doing no good for the overall well being of the economy. Whereas if they just shared the wealth by mandate, B the deserving party will actually use that money and pump it back into the economy. That's the thinking, right? I say this in all seriousness, liberal economic orthodoxy is so linear and full of holes. Anyone thinking that the government is going to help drive the economy through some sort of minimum wage scheme really has no grasp of the economy. The minimum wage is there in my view to help stop abuses by some employers, not as some sort of economic panacea. It's a regulatory measure to help around the edges, nothing more. No. Way more complicated than that Consumer spending is 2/3 of economic activity so putting more wealth in consumers hands and making work more worth doing--incentivising it will have some affect. I'm not claiming it will be a miracle but I'm willing to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Nowadays it's used more as a wedge issue, 100%. Both sides do it. No. Way more complicated than that Consumer spending is 2/3 of economic activity so putting more wealth in consumers hands and making work more worth doing--incentivising it will have some affect. That's what I implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Consumer spending is 2/3 of economic activity so putting more wealth in consumers hands and making work more worth doing--incentivising it will have some affect. I'm not claiming it will be a miracle but I'm willing to try it. If you're willing to try it, why don't you try it? I mean, you seem to believe it's a great plan so why won't you raise the salary of your employees to over $15/hour? It would seem like a win-win for you, your company, your employees and your local economy. What is keeping you from raising their pay to $15/hour? What could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 No. Way more complicated than that Consumer spending is 2/3 of economic activity so putting more wealth in consumers hands and making work more worth doing--incentivising it will have some affect. I'm not claiming it will be a miracle but I'm willing to try it. You're an idiot. Economists of all stripes agree that for the demand side stimulous to work, that demand has to be propped up for a long time. That's why nobody likes short term stimulous plans. Raising the minimum wage by $15 may sound great to economic troglodytes, because it doesn't take into account the long term effect on employers. So, yes, you may get a short term consumption bump, which will be followed by a long term consumption squeeze, as employers adjust the labor costs (ie fire more people) to maintain their profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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