Stopping Manning - STL Blueprint UPDATED w/JW's All-22 Review

[boyst]

I don't disagree with the concept at all. But to me the way to beat the Broncos is to bang on the receivers and jam things up at the line. Seattle combined pressure from their front 4 (something we can do) with heavy physical play on the receivers (I'm not sure we can do that). NE did pretty much the same thing. Crowd the box to stop the run and if the receivers get off the line clean, Manning will pick the D to pieces.

I agree that we need to stop them, but I am primarily concerned with our ability to beat them on offense. We need to beat them on offense and stop them with defense.

 

I have expectations we can stop them on D. On offense, I am not so sure.

 

i know it was several weeks ago, but did you happen to see the jets- broncos game? I did not see it, but I know geno was driving for a winning TD when he threw a pick 6. They must have held the WRs somewhat in check. And the Jets have a horrible secondary. Just wondering how they did it.

To beat the Broncos you have to score points. The Jets were able to score points and I am more interested in how they scored points and if we can do what they did.

[YoloinOhio]

 

I agree that we need to stop them, but I am primarily concerned with our ability to beat them on offense. We need to beat them on offense and stop them with defense.

 

I have expectations we can stop them on D. On offense, I am not so sure.

 

 

To beat the Broncos you have to score points. The Jets were able to score points and I am more interested in how they scored points and if we can do what they did.

get Bradley Robey in single coverage and throw at him all day.watkins would be good but pretty much anyone. Edited December 2, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Kelly the Dog]

I did not like the bills defense in the Patsies game one bit. But IMO the charger game was a fluke. The first pass for 50 yards was a pick play where Robey got caught, and the first TD was also a pick. The rest of the game Rivers would be pressured and he would throw just ridiculous passes right on the money. If you played those exact same plays against Rivers again, he would not complete several of them. He was just insanely accurate that day even with rushers in his face.

[ndirish1978]

I truly hope the Bills defense does replicate what the Rams and Seahawks were able to do. However, the Bills defense has played two upper tier QBs this year: Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers. They went a combined 45-62 (72%) for 617 yards, 6 TDs, no interceptions, and a QB rating of over 135. We lost those games by a combined score of 59-32...and both games were at home. I don't say this to be negative or to say that there is no way the Bills can beat Denver. My point is that great QBs typically make plays and that tremendous defensive performances against them, such as the ones cited, are rare.

 

I believe the key for the Bills to beat a team with an upper tier QB is for their offense to step up its game and help the defense by playing consistent, putting together time consuming drives, scoring touchdowns in the red zone, and not turning the ball over. If they do that, then the defense does not have to have one of those rare performances - just a very solid one. This defense is very, very good. But, to beat a team like Denver (not to mention Green Bay and New England), then the offense is going to have to play far better than they did earlier this year against San Diego and New England.

 

Agreed, we've been pretty poor against good competition

[thebandit27]

JW's All-22 Review focuses on this exact topic:

 

http://www.wgr550.com/JW-All-22-Bucking-the-Broncos/20438318

[YoloinOhio]

@RQUINN619: In 3 Broncos L's (SEA, NE, STL) they've allowed 44 pressures (14.6pg). In their 9 W's, they've allowed 59 (6.5pg). Bills avg 19.25 per GAME!

[Manther]

I truly hope the Bills defense does replicate what the Rams and Seahawks were able to do. However, the Bills defense has played two upper tier QBs this year: Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers. They went a combined 45-62 (72%) for 617 yards, 6 TDs, no interceptions, and a QB rating of over 135. We lost those games by a combined score of 59-32...and both games were at home. I don't say this to be negative or to say that there is no way the Bills can beat Denver. My point is that great QBs typically make plays and that tremendous defensive performances against them, such as the ones cited, are rare.

 

I believe the key for the Bills to beat a team with an upper tier QB is for their offense to step up its game and help the defense by playing consistent, putting together time consuming drives, scoring touchdowns in the red zone, and not turning the ball over. If they do that, then the defense does not have to have one of those rare performances - just a very solid one. This defense is very, very good. But, to beat a team like Denver (not to mention Green Bay and New England), then the offense is going to have to play far better than they did earlier this year against San Diego and New England.

Totally agree....the offense needs to move the ball!

[Deranged Rhino]

I am not impressed by the Broncos run game

 

You should take a look at their last few games. CJ Anderson is legit within this scheme and Gase has completely flipped his pass first philosophy after the debacle in St. Louis. They've upped their zone blocking and it's working on the inside well.

 

That said, they haven't played a front four like ours before. But we shouldn't overlook the improvement CJ Anderson and Gase have brought to the Donkey's running attack. It's night and day from the first half of the season.

[eball]

great OP, as usual.. but i can't get excited scheming our D when the outcome of the game is truly in the hands of our O.

we will have a very difficult time run and pass blocking the Denver D, and getting free from their press-cover CBs and the SS they have roaming back there.

 

hope you guys figure out how to pitch a shut out.

 

Truer words never spoken. I'm not worried at all about our defense. The offense needs to show up.

[YoloinOhio]

I think our team is just as good as Miami and they took Denver to the wire in Denver. I think our D and coaches are better than Miami's. I do think Tannehill has been playing better than Orton, but it's not a huge gap. I also think the Bills have big play ability and a great kicker. This gives me hope that this game will be competitive.

Edited December 3, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Metal Man]

I except the D to be able to hang in there and compete for a while.

 

Like others in this thread though I believe the game comes down to how many good drives can the O put together.

 

No matter how good the D is playing they will eventually tire out if the Bills are going 3 and out multiple times in a row and against Denver's offense that could quickly lead to a blow out.

[Agent 91]

 

With Schwartz's scheme and Hughes out wide we should expect the DL to blanket the pocket. Hughes responsibilities this week we be different then normal and he will have to stay home setting the edge and expect the SLB to fill the hole. I don't see the running game working well between the OG's and see a lot of bounce outs to the LB cleaning up - hopefully that is Spikes.

 

 

I am fine with this as long as Spikes is on the field when those guys are. I expect the Broncos to try and go no huddle with quick substitutions. In this case I hope Marrone and Co know the rule that if the offense makes a substitution the defense must be able to make a substitution.

 

 

Agreed. We have been slow to get rolling on D recently. Throughout the game I hope Spikes is in on running downs and when the RB's are in but not in spread offenses or units without a RB. Elsewise the first series we need to march Spikes up the middle a few times in the first few series.

 

 

If he is playing MLB in a nickel or dime package he will not be covering anyone and will just end up spying on the backfield or TE.

 

Bingo. Big nickel.

 

Line up:

 

Hughes - Dareus - Kyle Williams

Bradham - Spikes - MWilliams

Gilmore - Robey - Graham

AWiliams - DWilliams

 

Put Hughes on the weak side, Mario on the strong side to play LB/DE.

We can also play Lawson in Mario's place as a WLB similar to the position he played last year. I am fine with Lawson on the TE.

 

Why no Searcy? You put duke over Searcy?

 

Weather Weather Weather!

 

Mother Nature please give wind and snow.

 

Peyton Manning is a living Legend--but can he spin it through high winds like he used too? Orton has a rocket as we know.

 

If it's mild out-- we're getting outscored.

 

Orton has a rocket? I dont know if I agree with that

[Dorkington]

Am I the only one that is less concerned about Manning, and more concerned about their run game? We can get pressure on Manning, and he'll make some throws, but I don't expect him to pick us apart. I am worried about the run game, especially since we haven't been overly strong against it in recent weeks, while the Broncos have started gutting people.

[thebandit27]

Am I the only one that is less concerned about Manning, and more concerned about their run game? We can get pressure on Manning, and he'll make some throws, but I don't expect him to pick us apart. I am worried about the run game, especially since we haven't been overly strong against it in recent weeks, while the Broncos have started gutting people.

 

I think that's more perception than reality.

 

KC got one big run from Charles and managed to put up 127 yards, while Miami seemed to do well in gaining 125. Other than that, it's been a mere 74 yards allowed to Cleveland and 92 to the Jets. Not a huge downward trend really.

 

I do agree that Denver getting a running game going can be scary, but keep in mind that KC's defense is historically bad against the run. I still say you sell out to stop Manning; I don't think CJ Anderson can beat us.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I think that's more perception than reality.

 

KC got one big run from Charles and managed to put up 127 yards, while Miami seemed to do well in gaining 125. Other than that, it's been a mere 74 yards allowed to Cleveland and 92 to the Jets. Not a huge downward trend really.

 

I do agree that Denver getting a running game going can be scary, but keep in mind that KC's defense is historically bad against the run. I still say you sell out to stop Manning; I don't think CJ Anderson can beat us.

i was not concerned with their running success against KC. Even the Bills and Raiders were gashing KC in the run game. I was concerned that they also ran all over Miami who I thought had a good run D. Then I saw what the NYJ did to Miami's run D.

[Dorkington]

I think that's more perception than reality.

 

KC got one big run from Charles and managed to put up 127 yards, while Miami seemed to do well in gaining 125. Other than that, it's been a mere 74 yards allowed to Cleveland and 92 to the Jets. Not a huge downward trend really.

 

I do agree that Denver getting a running game going can be scary, but keep in mind that KC's defense is historically bad against the run. I still say you sell out to stop Manning; I don't think CJ Anderson can beat us.

 

Probably true, just seemed like runs have been longer the last few weeks. Probably should review the box score before speaking >.>

[Thunderstealer]

Truer words never spoken. I'm not worried at all about our defense. The offense needs to show up.

 

If the pass rush isn't effective up the middle. The ends should pull up--not over pursue--but make themselves big by waving their arms, knock down passes. Manning is the very best at using your momentum against you. And I feel like we are prone to fall into such a trap.

[thebandit27]

Probably true, just seemed like runs have been longer the last few weeks. Probably should review the box score before speaking >.>

 

Not necessarily; the first half against Cleveland the LBs gave too much ground in the run game, so you're not way off base. I just meant that I don't think it's as big an issue as it may seem to be at first glance.

[Pirate Angel]

Swartz says rush with 3 down linemen vs franchise qbs works well

[Luxy312]

While I love all of the in depth analysis of edge pass rushing, filling the middle, etc., there's only one thing that really matters to me. Every team that has beaten the Broncos this year has won the turnover battle (+1, +1, +2). The Broncos overcame turnovers versus Arizona, who was +2 in that game, but that's it. Miami was in the game, because they were even in turnovers and scored 36 points. If the Bills offense turns the ball over, I don't really care what the defense does. They probably lose the game. If the Bills defense doesn't generate turnovers, I really don't care what the offense does. They probably lose the game. Both sides need to bring their "A: game. Getting to Manning with just 4 guys is a must. If they blitz, they get shredded.