BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Fair enough. I obviously disagree. I don't think Orton is anymore fun to watch than Kelly Holcomb. At least with EJ, you didn't know what he could be. I know what Orton's ceiling is. .500 and average. EJ's could be worse, but it could be much better too. He was .500 after 4 games. Agree to disagree and hopefully Orton takes us to the playoffs. Otherwise, it's a waste of a year. Agree to disagree. I thought he was supposed to be a major upgrade since we stunted the develop of our young 1st round QB. IMO, I haven't seen it. I gave up arguing with the True Believers. As long as the Bills win games I won't complain. but if they lose ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I was for the move because EJ looked lost and was down right awful against the Texans and Chargers nor do I ever think EJ will develop into anything more then a marginal QB. Look at the teams that are either in control for the division or wild card. They all have top QB's. Some do: NE*, Denver, Indianapolis, Green Bay Would you call Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Brian Hoyer, Nick Foles/Mark Sanchez, Carson Palmer/Drew Stanton top QB? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I want to point out that Orton plays offense. He's never on the field at the same time as Brady, Rodgers, or Manning. It's up to the defense to limit their production, not our QB. The idea that QBs are going mano a mano like starting pitchers in baseball do, is exaggerated. All QBs want to win and they try their best when going up against a good opponent, but unless a QB really screws up and causes turnovers to give the other team short fields, it's not usually the case that a great QB on one team can neutralize a great QB on the other. The Jets beat the Steelers a couple weeks ago. I don't think Michael Vick was what gave Roethlisberger problems. Actually after yesterday I can't even imagine what it was on the Jets that gave Roethlisberger problems. But they must have figured something out. You have me convinced. Go Orton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) KO isn't the reason we've been losing games, but he's also not good enough to carry a bad OL, OC, and hurt RB corps. He lost us the KC game...missed several wide open TDs that would have turned it into a laugher Edited November 25, 2014 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinES3 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) KO isn't the reason we've been losing games, but he's also not good enough to carry a bad OL, OC, and hurt RB corps. I don't know why everyone else doesn't grasp this. He doesn't lose games. EJ does at this stage. Orton therefore is the starter. It's that simple. Edited November 25, 2014 by SmokinES3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Oh ,I thought it was more like Bryce Browns fumble,The receivers dropping balls and poor tackling.C`mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinES3 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Oh ,I thought it was more like Bryce Browns fumble,The receivers dropping balls and poor tackling.C`mon. Shhh, you'll ruin the narrative of the EJ's limitless potential crowd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He lost us the KC game...missed several wide open TDs that would have turned it into a laugher Of course the KC loss had nothing to do with the McKelvin fumble that led directly to the winning TD, or the Brown fumble that took 7 Bills points off the board. It was all on Orton. In case you only watch the Bills games, every QB in the league misses throws to open receivers every single week. It was not Orton that caused the KC loss it was turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) KO had a pretty mediocre game that day, no argument there.. but we still win that game if Brown and McKelvin hold on to the ball. (Basically, he's not good enough to make up for huge mistakes like that) Edited November 25, 2014 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) He is s**t in the Red Zone...where it matters. Great defense, average drive start field position is one of the best, and still Orton can't get into the end zone. Big problem, but everyone just wants to blame the sidelines. The Red Zone is what separates the men from the boys, the winners from the journeymen. Edited November 25, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The Bills haven't beaten any top QB's this season, (Stafford, Cutler....meh, guys that run hot and cold). Now they will face Manning, Rodgers, and Brady....Orton will fall short. This team just kinda scrums with the rest of the fodder of the NFL, winning some, and losing some...Orton doesn't cut it, and cannot raise the team above the middle of the pack. Orton is not playing Manning ,Rodgers ,or Brady he is going against the defenses of those teams . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I don't know why everyone else doesn't grasp this. He doesn't lose games. EJ does at this stage. Orton therefore is the starter. It's that simple. Um, EJ beat Miami and actually scored a td against them. Orton is not playing Manning ,Rodgers ,or Brady he is going against the defenses of those teams . Our defense is the only reason we have a prayer of the playoffs. They have to hold every opponent 17 points or less, or it's a loss. That's a lot of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I was pretty sure i was going to see a post to this effect today. As I watched the replays, a lot of the throws where woods had to "help him out" were actually thrown exactly where they needed to be, and the only place they could be to make the completion while a avoiding the defender or a pick. The touchdown and the short out route to the sideline were prime examples. On his Go route, if the defender doesn't take away his arm, woods doesn't have to make a circus catch and the ball is caught in stride (IIRC). Don't get me wrong, these were all great catches by woods, but they were also excellent throws that just needed to be placed in awkward spots because of the position of the defenders. Just because a receiver has to make an awkward catch doesn't mean the throw was "off". Obviously its best to hit a wide open receiver in stride, but sometimes that is not possible and you have to take what is available. I will give that he missed some open receivers including Sammy, but Sammy dropped several of those "hard to catch" passes, was often double covered, and Woods was hot, so I am sure that Orton's eyes just drifted to the receiver who was making plays more often. Nonetheless if the all 22 shows frequently wide open receivers that could have been hit in stride than we have a legitimate gripe. The only caveat would be that if they were the 4th receiver on the progression, it may have not been feasible to get through all the reads to get the ball to them. Well I honestly did not expect to see a post like yours, which is fine. I certainly hope your right, and it did occur to me at the time that maybe he was just putting it completely out of harm's way. However, after his KC and Finns game the presumption in my mind is that he was only generally accurate, that Woodsie was able to bail him out and Sammy wasn't Liked the toss to Chandler tho. Anyway my view right now is that he needs to sharpen up his accuracy if he is going to have any success against the better secondaries he will soon be facing. Kyle said when he first got here that it would take some time to develop chemistry with this young corps of WRs. I fully take him at his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He is s**t in the Red Zone...where it matters. Great defense, average drive start field position is one of the best, and still Orton can't get into the end zone. Big problem, but everyone just wants to blame the sidelines. The Red Zone is what separates the men from the boys, the winners from the journeymen. pure drivel his numbers are right there with other Qbs despite not really He is s**t in the Red Zone...where it matters. Great defense, average drive start field position is one of the best, and still Orton can't get into the end zone. Big problem, but everyone just wants to blame the sidelines. The Red Zone is what separates the men from the boys, the winners from the journeymen. Getting into the endzone has never been about ONE Guy . getting into the end zone is about execution but also about the ability of players to consistently win individuals in the passing game or being able to run the ball. Look at the td by Odell and try argue that the Qb is all that matters when getting into the endzone . Th teams who have the highest success rates are the teams that have skill positions players that sleep,eat and live tds like Forte,Marshall,jeffery,Bennett,Murray,Bryant,Thomas ,Sanders,Julio,Roddy,Gronk, We are trying to develop those types of players and attitudes and this LALA land that some of you live in where we have some seasoned groomed offensive machine instead of the young work in progress is hysterically funny and embarrassing at the same time. Um, EJ beat Miami and actually scored a td against them. Our defense is the only reason we have a prayer of the playoffs. They have to hold every opponent 17 points or less, or it's a loss. That's a lot of pressure. They have been great at times but they have also failed to close the deal on occasion as well . Playoff games are typically tight team who makes the fewest mistakes win types of situations and we have been the team to blink first and not just on the offense but the defensive and special teams well . I don't consider this team a finished product though but they are in the hunt and you want to see how they perform as the pressure mounts the next few weeks . One other thing I will mention about our post bye play is thats its as if we went into bye and decided just don't make a mistake on offense and the defense will in it for us but the defense is not that caliber we need the offense to be productive so I was glad to see the offense get back to being aggressive . In such an offense driven league you can no longer play in the fear of taking a sack or having a turnover if it comes at the sacrifice of making big plays offensively . The rules dictate aggressiveness you just need to be as smart as possible with it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Some do: NE*, Denver, Indianapolis, Green Bay Would you call Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Brian Hoyer, Nick Foles/Mark Sanchez, Carson Palmer/Drew Stanton top QB? Really? This is really not a good year for the "franchise QB" argument. As you note, quite of few of the teams in the thick of it do not have franchise QBs. I would add KC to that list of don't haves and Pittsburgh to the do haves. Several franchise QBs will not even make the playoffs this year. In the running: Blue Drees, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, RGIII, either Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick probably, Cam Newton, and Eli Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is really not a good year for the "franchise QB" argument. As you note, quite of few of the teams in the thick of it do not have franchise QBs. I would add KC to that list of don't haves and Pittsburgh to the do haves. Several franchise QBs will not even make the playoffs this year. In the running: Blue Drees, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, RGIII, either Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick probably, Cam Newton, and Eli Manning. Thats because the league is changing away from just one guy being the absolute difference. With the new rules good coaching and talent can have success even if you don't have a HOF player at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thats because the league is changing away from just one guy being the absolute difference. With the new rules good coaching and talent can have success even if you don't have a HOF player at QB. I thought the new rules made your team more dependent on good QB play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 what i like about Orton is if the screen pass isnt set up he has no problem throwing it in the ground not worrying about comp %..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Um, EJ beat Miami and actually scored a td against them. Our defense is the only reason we have a prayer of the playoffs. They have to hold every opponent 17 points or less, or it's a loss. That's a lot of pressure. Yes, keeping down Vick, geno, Tannehill, Teddy whatshisname, Fitz, and Kansas City Smith must keep these guys up at night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Get back to me when the Bills make the playoffs with Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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