D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A common theme amongst the Haters! Threw a pick yesterday and he fumbled, has thrown a pick in three games, EJ was better at protecting it. BS!!!!! He has handled the ball on 2647 plays in his career and has a 7% turnover rate. This puts him 16th out of 62 active QBs with 500 or more ball control plays. Ahead of EJ who is 30th. Orton ranks between Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton. He is ahead of Aaron Rodgers 8% and Roehtlisberger 9%. He trails Tom Brady 6%, Andruw Luck 6%, and Peyton Manning 4%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Can we KO this redundant KO thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 INto the abyss we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A common theme amongst the Haters! Threw a pick yesterday and he fumbled, has thrown a pick in three games, EJ was better at protecting it. BS!!!!! He has handled the ball on 2647 plays in his career and has a 7% turnover rate. This puts him 16th out of 62 active QBs with 500 or more ball control plays. Ahead of EJ who is 30th. Orton ranks between Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton. He is ahead of Aaron Rodgers 8% and Roehtlisberger 9%. He trails Tom Brady 6%, Andruw Luck 6%, and Peyton Manning 4%. What's his turnover rate this year? Taking stats from teams that aren't the Bills doesn't mean much to me. And the day Orton is as good as Rivers, Newton, Rogers or Big Ben is the day I overlook some of these turnovers. He doesn't make enough plays to offset them. And why is it that anybody who doesn't say Orton a fantastic QB a "hater?" The guy is a middling QB who needs to hold onto the ball. Stating this does't make me a "hater", it makes me honest. That said, he's better than EJ at this point in their careers so I have no issue with him getting the starting nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 What's his turnover rate this year? Taking stats from teams that aren't the Bills doesn't mean much to me. And the day Orton is as good as Rivers, Newton, Rogers or Big Ben is the day I overlook some of these turnovers. He doesn't make enough plays to offset them. And why is it that anybody who doesn't say Orton a fantastic QB a "hater?" The guy is a middling QB who needs to hold onto the ball. Stating this does't make me a "hater", it makes me honest. That said, he's better than EJ at this point in their careers so I have no issue with him getting the starting nod. Sample Size! What's his turnover rate this year? Taking stats from teams that aren't the Bills doesn't mean much to me. And the day Orton is as good as Rivers, Newton, Rogers or Big Ben is the day I overlook some of these turnovers. He doesn't make enough plays to offset them. And why is it that anybody who doesn't say Orton a fantastic QB a "hater?" The guy is a middling QB who needs to hold onto the ball. Stating this does't make me a "hater", it makes me honest. That said, he's better than EJ at this point in their careers so I have no issue with him getting the starting nod. Sample Size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What's his turnover rate this year? Taking stats from teams that aren't the Bills doesn't mean much to me. And the day Orton is as good as Rivers, Newton, Rogers or Big Ben is the day I overlook some of these turnovers. He doesn't make enough plays to offset them. And why is it that anybody who doesn't say Orton a fantastic QB a "hater?" The guy is a middling QB who needs to hold onto the ball. Stating this does't make me a "hater", it makes me honest. That said, he's better than EJ at this point in their careers so I have no issue with him getting the starting nod. Why is it that people always inserts words like "fantastic" or "great" into people who defend ortons comments ? because without those obvious exaggerations your claims would be frivolous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why is it that people always inserts words like "fantastic" or "great" into people who defend ortons comments ? because without those obvious exaggerations your claims would be frivolous Why is it every individual who comments on Orton struggling or not playing great as a hater? Same logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why is it that people always inserts words like "fantastic" or "great" into people who defend ortons comments ? because without those obvious exaggerations your claims would be frivolous Because they can't admit that they are wrong and he is no where near the biggest issue with this team. He ranks way down the list behind such things as guard play, coaching the line, coordinating the offense etc. This team has talent and is succeeding IN SPITE of the problems. Why is it every individual who comments on Orton struggling or not playing great as a hater? Same logic. The guy had had an 88,94 and 96 passer rating with a 2-1 record. Why do the EJ lovers not accept that replacing him with Orton has removed and excuse for the coaching staff. We have much bigger issues than Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I have no problems with Orton throwing INTs as the more chances you take to throw downfield, you are also going to get picked off more often. Brett Favre was a great example. What I didn't like from Orton was the Fumble. There is really no reason to not take the sack there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Unfortunately, if the Bills don't fix their OL, we won't be seeing much more of Orton. He usually only has 2 seconds to throw and is gonna get killed out there. How can our OL be so terrible for 15 years?!? Tom Brady has all day to throw, and I can't even name more than 2 of their linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I have no problems with Orton throwing INTs as the more chances you take to throw downfield, you are also going to get picked off more often. Brett Favre was a great example. What I didn't like from Orton was the Fumble. There is really no reason to not take the sack there. +1 And if you are going to take the sack he had enough time to tuck that ball up safe. My worry with both the strip sacks is he doesn't seem to prioritise holding on to the football. Yesterday he tried to force something and against the Patriots he just dropped it. If he can clear up the fumbles I have no problem with 1 or 2 INTs per game trying to make a play down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I can accept the interceptions, they are part of the game but the careless fumbles are inexcusable...why on earth would he try passing that ball with the defender all over him, just take the sack and get the FG Orton and a lot of other players on this team need to play a lot smarter than they have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A common theme amongst the Haters! Threw a pick yesterday and he fumbled, has thrown a pick in three games, EJ was better at protecting it. BS!!!!! It's not BS. One has 2 fumbles and 3 picks with 137 combined touches (non handoffs) one has zero fumbles and three picks on 153 combined touches on the season. Same o line, same oc, same playbook. It is definitely something that can be factually asserted. That means based on well over 100 touches one has almost twice the giveaway rate as the other. The real argument is protecting the football is ok, but can't be a priority over taking calculated risks to win games. The subargument is then of course are all turnovers equal? A bomb on third down picked on the opposing 5 is much less detrimental than a fumble in your own end zone. When and how turnovers are committed mean everything in the game and are hidden in the stats. The other argument is asking if comparing Orton to a guy with 14 games experience is the benchmark for being a turnover machine or not. Also in general folks should careful about using words like sample size unless you really know what it means. There is a bunch of math needed to determine a correct sample size for comparing outcomes. If you did that in the background, please... Share... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Because they can't admit that they are wrong and he is no where near the biggest issue with this team. He ranks way down the list behind such things as guard play, coaching the line, coordinating the offense etc. This team has talent and is succeeding IN SPITE of the problems. The guy had had an 88,94 and 96 passer rating with a 2-1 record. Why do the EJ lovers not accept that replacing him with Orton has removed and excuse for the coaching staff. We have much bigger issues than Orton. It's funny how you completely ignored my question. Are we all supposed to bow down and chant about how great Orton is? No, he's been better than EJ, but that's where I draw the line. This "HATER, AND EJ LOVER" crap is idiotic. We're all Bills fans, and the fact is if someone is rooting for one player to be better than another on our team, then that person isn't a fan, they just want to be right. Bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) you can forget what he did 8 yrs ago Here and NOW he's a turnover machine. Orton's TD to INT ration is 1:1 For very good QB's that turnover ration should be something like 4-1 Edited October 20, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Dude, he has no pass protection. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers would be turning the ball over if they were behind that line.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Dude, he has no pass protection. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers would be turning the ball over if they were behind that line.. The Putz also have problems on the OLine until they faced the Bills. Yet - Tom Terrific has a TD to INT ratio of ... 13 - 2 add to that 5 fumbles Edited October 20, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I am getting to the point where I expect Orton to throw a pick a game....the thing is he also backs that up with SEVERAL excellent throws per game. The more we pass...the more picks we are gonna have. He is a gunslinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Lies, damned lies, and statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's not BS. One has 2 fumbles and 3 picks with 137 combined touches (non handoffs) one has zero fumbles and three picks on 153 combined touches on the season. Same o line, same oc, same playbook. It is definitely something that can be factually asserted. That means based on well over 100 touches one has almost twice the giveaway rate as the other. The real argument is protecting the football is ok, but can't be a priority over taking calculated risks to win games. The subargument is then of course are all turnovers equal? A bomb on third down picked on the opposing 5 is much less detrimental than a fumble in your own end zone. When and how turnovers are committed mean everything in the game and are hidden in the stats. The other argument is asking if comparing Orton to a guy with 14 games experience is the benchmark for being a turnover machine or not. Also in general folks should careful about using words like sample size unless you really know what it means. There is a bunch of math needed to determine a correct sample size for comparing outcomes. If you did that in the background, please... Share... It's not BS. One has 2 fumbles and 3 picks with 137 combined touches (non handoffs) one has zero fumbles and three picks on 153 combined touches on the season. Same o line, same oc, same playbook. It is definitely something that can be factually asserted. That means based on well over 100 touches one has almost twice the giveaway rate as the other. The real argument is protecting the football is ok, but can't be a priority over taking calculated risks to win games. The subargument is then of course are all turnovers equal? A bomb on third down picked on the opposing 5 is much less detrimental than a fumble in your own end zone. When and how turnovers are committed mean everything in the game and are hidden in the stats. The other argument is asking if comparing Orton to a guy with 14 games experience is the benchmark for being a turnover machine or not. Also in general folks should careful about using words like sample size unless you really know what it means. There is a bunch of math needed to determine a correct sample size for comparing outcomes. If you did that in the background, please... Share... It's not BS. One has 2 fumbles and 3 picks with 137 combined touches (non handoffs) one has zero fumbles and three picks on 153 combined touches on the season. Same o line, same oc, same playbook. It is definitely something that can be factually asserted. That means based on well over 100 touches one has almost twice the giveaway rate as the other. The real argument is protecting the football is ok, but can't be a priority over taking calculated risks to win games. The subargument is then of course are all turnovers equal? A bomb on third down picked on the opposing 5 is much less detrimental than a fumble in your own end zone. When and how turnovers are committed mean everything in the game and are hidden in the stats. The other argument is asking if comparing Orton to a guy with 14 games experience is the benchmark for being a turnover machine or not. Also in general folks should careful about using words like sample size unless you really know what it means. There is a bunch of math needed to determine a correct sample size for comparing outcomes. If you did that in the background, please... Share... Orton has handled the ball through passes, sacks or runs 2,647 times in his career. On 7% of the plays he either has a fumble or an interception. This is good for 17th place out of 62 eligible QBs-(500 plays to be eligible). EJ has handled the ball 540 times with an 8% turnover rate. Lower is better-obviously. As for sample size, people shouldn't look at 2-3 games worth of data and give it more weight than someone who has handled the ball over 2600 times. Lies, damned lies, and statistics! That is moronic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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