metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) This is both willfully ignorant of how the WAR stat is applied in baseball, and it's making stuff up to apply a baseball stat to a football projection for an imagined scenario. Well done? Take it easy on metz, he has some inside info. i kind of liked BTTF 2 as a kid but man is it bad if you watch it now. Nice reference though. Cannot wait for the barrage of emails I get when Manuel develops into a franchise qb. Everybody will win. You guys can say I told you so and I will be happy that the bills have their guy. And also i understand exactly how WAR works in baseball. I felt it was a close enough concept to draw a comparison in this case. Especially with all the "they're both .500" clowns. Again, anyone who believes they win that game at Detroit with Manuel is willfully ignorant themselves. It's just that easy huh? What about if Watkins catches those drops he had in Houston? you mean in the first half- the first half we emerged with the lead out of? Yeah pretty sure we would've held on to the lead. Jesus Christmas have people forgotten how bad Manuel was in that game already!?! Edited October 14, 2014 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 i kind of liked BTTF 2 as a kid but man is it bad if you watch it now. Nice reference though. Cannot wait for the barrage of emails I get when Manuel develops into a franchise qb. Everybody will win. You guys can say I told you so and I will be happy that the bills have their guy. you mean in the first half- the first half we emerged with the lead out of? Yeah pretty sure we would've held on to the lead. Jesus Christmas have people forgotten how bad Manuel was in that game already!?! Yep. EJ threw a red zone pick six in a game that was in hand. The same kind of play that ended Jeff Tuel's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) i kind of liked BTTF 2 as a kid but man is it bad if you watch it now. Nice reference though. Cannot wait for the barrage of emails I get when Manuel develops into a franchise qb. Everybody will win. You guys can say I told you so and I will be happy that the bills have their guy. you mean in the first half- the first half we emerged with the lead out of? Yeah pretty sure we would've held on to the lead. Jesus Christmas have people forgotten how bad Manuel was in that game already!?! That's the problem. No one is saying he is the franchise QB. No one will let him develop either. They point to cases like Austin Davis and say "why can't we have that?" but are willfully ignorant of all the flaws of those QB's that we would be freaking out over. Until we get them that is. Then they are glaring flaws that the player could never recover from. Like I said, I am all for Manuel learning from the bench for now, while Orton does what he can, but you are all impatiently putting nearly 14 years of frustration on our young QB, and expecting some sort of magic pill solution. Which ushers in the "the guy on the bench, the guy on the bench!" hysteria. As for the pick six, I believe Orton fumbled and threw a pick which let the game against the Patriots get out of hand. But oh I forgot, those don't count against the QB's we are rooting for. Edited October 14, 2014 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 That's the problem. No one is saying he is the franchise QB. No one will let him develop either. They point to cases like Austin Davis and say "why can't we have that?" but are willfully ignorant of all the flaws of those QB's that we would be freaking out over. Like I said, I am all for Manuel learning from the bench for now, while Orton does what he can, but you are all impatiently putting nearly 14 years of frustration on our young QB, and expecting some sort of magic pill solution. Which ushers in the "the guy on the bench, the guy on the bench!" hysteria. ok we're getting closer here. Some people aren't even acknowledging that orton is better than Manuel right now, which i should just ignore and go to a different website but i am so fascinated with people's lack of the most rudimentary football analysis on this website that i can't turn away and let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) ok we're getting closer here. Some people aren't even acknowledging that orton is better than Manuel right now, which i should just ignore and go to a different website but i am so fascinated with people's lack of the most rudimentary football analysis on this website that i can't turn away and let it go. Right now is the key word. Manuel has much more upside than Orton, but you have the same type people on your side saying Manuel will never be or should never be an NFL QB. Edited October 14, 2014 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 ok we're getting closer here. Some people aren't even acknowledging that orton is better than Manuel right now, which i should just ignore and go to a different website but i am so fascinated with people's lack of the most rudimentary football analysis on this website that i can't turn away and let it go. Oh geez you added to your post. Yes Orton is good for a bad turnover a game, we all get that. But do we march down the field with authority and get that game within 8 with Manuel? Freaking of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 i kind of liked BTTF 2 as a kid but man is it bad if you watch it now. Nice reference though. Cannot wait for the barrage of emails I get when Manuel develops into a franchise qb. Everybody will win. You guys can say I told you so and I will be happy that the bills have their guy. And also i understand exactly how WAR works in baseball. WAR in baseball doesn't work in that you add Player X and pile on his wins. And it would be silly to apply it to football where you need 10 other guys working in concert with you. Individual performance is much more easily tracked in baseball than in the NFL. Regardless, you just can't chalk it up and say that Orton is worth those two wins. You may believe it, but it's very hard to substantiate that claim. Football is a game of so many variables that he could have been worse, depending on the game plan and the opposition's approach. The smart money says he'd be better, but that doesn't mean anything. By the way - read the post history and you'll see that I supported the move to Orton. I just don't think the book is closed on Manuel yet, though it may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Right now is the key word. Manuel has much more upside than Orton, but you have the same type people on your side saying Manuel will never be or should never be an NFL QB. that's the thing is i'm not even sure he does. Losman or Edwards never got to the level that Orton is playing at right now and Manuel has done zero to lead me to believe he'll ever be better than either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yep. That pick 6 on a potential game tying drive would have had the pitchforks and torches out for EJ. Those same posters will make some excuse for Davis. I wonder how many Rams fans are demanding that Davis be given 2-3 years as the unquestioned starter to "develop". that's the thing is i'm not even sure he does. Losman or Edwards never got to the level that Orton is playing at right now and Manuel has done zero to lead me to believe he'll ever be better than either of them. +1 I keep hearing this but I'm curious what the basis for it is. Other than being a faster runner I'm not sure what Manuel has that supposedly gives him greater upside than Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I wonder how many Rams fans are demanding that Davis be given 2-3 years as the unquestioned starter to "develop". +1 I keep hearing this but I'm curious what the basis for it is. Other than being a faster runner I'm not sure what Manuel has that supposedly gives him greater upside than Orton. when i watched youtube videos of Manuel coming out of fsu i was drawn to his scrambling abilities. At this point he is nowhere near the scrambler Fitzpatrick was. He is so freaking timid and afraid to take off, it was driving me freaking nuts. But yes Orton is Bledsoe-esque back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 when i watched youtube videos of Manuel coming out of fsu i was drawn to his scrambling abilities. At this point he is nowhere near the scrambler Fitzpatrick was. He is so freaking timid and afraid to take off, it was driving me freaking nuts. But yes Orton is Bledsoe-esque back there. It's funny you mention that because a week or 2 back I pulled a youtube video from his FSU days and I was surprised to see how well he played. I remember watching him before we drafted him and thinking he might be okay so I was curious why I had thought that. When I watched it I was kind of shocked to see how well he played. It was nothing that screamed surefire NFL QB, but a lot more promising that what we saw this year and most of last. He played like he was having fun, made a lot of big plays with his feet, and seemed to even be a bit more accurate with his throws. It made me think that if he played more wide open and used his legs he might be an effective QB. Sadly, he's hiding his greatest asset and playing to his weaknesses. I doubt he'll even try to be that QB again, and given his limitations I doubt he'll ever be successful as a pocket passer. It's unfortunate, but I believe that to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 There have been a lot of obvious franchise qbs after 4 games. Very few after 4 seasons. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 love when people start threads during games and then things change. Davis is so superior to Manuel that it's not even funny. It's sad actually...for us... Davis is a very good QB and the Rams long term starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Davis is so superior to Manuel that it's not even funny. It's sad actually...for us... Davis is a very good QB and the Rams long term starter. It's adorable how much you want to crush on any QB that isn't EJ Manuel. Did the dude run over your dog and steal your girlfriend or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) This kid is an undrafted rookie and went into tonight's game with a 96.9 QB rating, completing over 67% of his passes and had a healthy 7.9 YPA to go along with 6 TDs and 3 INTs... Sadly in 4 games, it is blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched him play he is miles better than EJ...dude reminds me a lot of a young Mark Brunell---mobile, very accurate and makes smart decisions throwing the ball... St. Louis might have gotten lucky that their first 2 QBs got hurt because he is playing better than either one of them would be right now...looks like Bradford probably is going to be done in St. Louis and he's set to be an UFA after this season. The question what do the Rams do? It's reminds me of what the Bears had to do with Luke McKnown this offseason and looks like they made a wise decision. Now the question is should the Bills pursue Davis since we don't have a 1st Round pick? Edited October 15, 2014 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Austin Davis was born in Ringgold, GA. Ringgold, GA. Sounds a lot like Reingold. Reingold? Chester Reingold, our former OL. We really missed out on manifestdestiny. The cosmic forces of combining a player from Ringgold with Chester Reingold would have been as powerful as 9000 suns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) and he's set to be an UFA after this season. The question what do the Rams do? It's reminds me of what the Bears had to do with Luke McKnown this offseason and looks like they made a wise decision. Now the question is should the Bills pursue Davis since we don't have a 1st Round pick? I'd guess the more realistic qb the bills take a shot at would be Bradford, if you asked me to take a shot in the dark I wonder how many Rams fans are demanding that Davis be given 2-3 years as the unquestioned starter to "develop". +1 I keep hearing this but I'm curious what the basis for it is. Other than being a faster runner I'm not sure what Manuel has that supposedly gives him greater upside than Orton. I don't think anyone has said 3 years. I think I've been about as vocal as they come and I'm simply frustrated that due to injury last year and the benching this year we are potentially shelving him without ever having played 5 consecutive games (hurt week 5 last year as his longest stretch). Sometimes guys with hot starts get figured out, occasionally those that start slow figure out routines and habits and grow into it. It's hard to say what becomes of a guy like ej if given more than a month - odds are he doesn't make it, but i would've been curious to see. With the size, arm, work ethic.... I'd be more curious about his long term development than most guys floating out there. Edited October 15, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Davis has some skills, but durability is a huge question mark. Dude looks like he's twelve years old. How many hits can he seriously take with that frame, no matter how tough of a guy he is? By the way - read the post history and you'll see that I supported the move to Orton. I just don't think the book is closed on Manuel yet, though it may be. I definitely wanted EJ out, but he still has a chance to be a decent backup for a long time IMO,which as we all know is an important position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I don't think anyone has said 3 years. I think I've been about as vocal as they come and I'm simply frustrated that due to injury last year and the benching this year we are potentially shelving him without ever having played 5 consecutive games (hurt week 5 last year as his longest stretch). Sometimes guys with hot starts get figured out, occasionally those that start slow figure out routines and habits and grow into it. It's hard to say what becomes of a guy like ej if given more than a month - odds are he doesn't make it, but i would've been curious to see. With the size, arm, work ethic.... I'd be more curious about his long term development than most guys floating out there. Most did not but there were some who did. And lots and lots of people wanted to give him 2 years as the unconditional starter. That's not really what gets me. I just find it amusing how many in the crowd that said you have no idea what kind of QB you have before he's played two full seasons are ripping other guys to shreds who have all of a half dozen starts under their belts with no sense of irony whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The jury is still out on Davis. He has been much better than he should be given where he was drafted and how he bounced around in the league. But I think he could just be another average to below average QB. He has struggled at times but being young that's to be expected. Overall I think that Davis has shown promise but the sample size is way too small. Let him play out the season and see how he does before he even gets the starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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