thebandit27 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 You keep saying that Brady "can't win" with the current non-elite receivers he is throwing to, but the Pats now sit at 5-2 and just last year they made it to the AFC Championship game. I defy you to point to a single throw that he made against the Bills two weeks ago that demonstrated even the slightest decline in Brady's ability to play QB in the NFL. You also have not mentioned Brady's offensive line, which is as poor as its ever been, especially compared to Denver's. Manning was completely unmolested last night. Can't win a Superbowl...I felt that was intrinsically obvious from my original point; we are, after all, discussing elite QBs. Brady hasn't won a Superbowl in over a decade. As you well know, even non-elite QBs can have outstanding games, or even stretches of seasons. If we're taking the Bills game in a vacuum, then your point would be worth discussion...we're not (or at least, I'm not). I also put far more responsibility on the QB for beating a pass rush than I do the OL. Brady has high draft picks at both tackle spots, so it's not like he's playing with nobodies. Manning lost his pro bowl LT early last season, and still went on to have the best pass protection in the league. Is that because Chris Clark is an amazing LT (they picked him up as a street FA before last season), or because Manning still possesses an incredible ability to get rid of the football and negate the pass rush? I also point to Russell Wilson when it comes to the OL...Seattle's pass blocking was atrocious last season, and yet they won the Superbowl, in part because Wilson used his abilities to negate the pass rush. If you want examples of Brady's decline, watch the whole season, not just the Bills' game. He's had 2 very good games (against Buffalo and Cincinnati), and the rest were quite pedestrian. Now if you don't mind, since I've stated my opinion thoroughly enough, I'm going to let this point rest so that the Watkins discussion can resume...I'm sure you understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 @SInowLIVE WATCH: @buffalobills WR @sammywatkins is LIVE on #SINow! http://bit.ly/1tRbXcU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Can't win a Superbowl...I felt that was intrinsically obvious from my original point; we are, after all, discussing elite QBs. Brady hasn't won a Superbowl in over a decade. As you well know, even non-elite QBs can have outstanding games, or even stretches of seasons. If we're taking the Bills game in a vacuum, then your point would be worth discussion...we're not (or at least, I'm not). I also put far more responsibility on the QB for beating a pass rush than I do the OL. Brady has high draft picks at both tackle spots, so it's not like he's playing with nobodies. Manning lost his pro bowl LT early last season, and still went on to have the best pass protection in the league. Is that because Chris Clark is an amazing LT (they picked him up as a street FA before last season), or because Manning still possesses an incredible ability to get rid of the football and negate the pass rush? I also point to Russell Wilson when it comes to the OL...Seattle's pass blocking was atrocious last season, and yet they won the Superbowl, in part because Wilson used his abilities to negate the pass rush. If you want examples of Brady's decline, watch the whole season, not just the Bills' game. He's had 2 very good games (against Buffalo and Cincinnati), and the rest were quite pedestrian. Now if you don't mind, since I've stated my opinion thoroughly enough, I'm going to let this point rest so that the Watkins discussion can resume...I'm sure you understand. Seriously can y'all table your Brady/EliteQB/QB nonsense. You're polluting the Sammy thread. Thanks. @SInowLIVE WATCH: @buffalobills WR @sammywatkins is LIVE on #SINow! http://bit.ly/1tRbXcU SI Now is confusing. I have no idea what is going on and got zero Sammy videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Can't win a Superbowl...I felt that was intrinsically obvious from my original point; we are, after all, discussing elite QBs. Brady hasn't won a Superbowl in over a decade. As you well know, even non-elite QBs can have outstanding games, or even stretches of seasons. If we're taking the Bills game in a vacuum, then your point would be worth discussion...we're not (or at least, I'm not). I also put far more responsibility on the QB for beating a pass rush than I do the OL. Brady has high draft picks at both tackle spots, so it's not like he's playing with nobodies. Manning lost his pro bowl LT early last season, and still went on to have the best pass protection in the league. Is that because Chris Clark is an amazing LT (they picked him up as a street FA before last season), or because Manning still possesses an incredible ability to get rid of the football and negate the pass rush? I also point to Russell Wilson when it comes to the OL...Seattle's pass blocking was atrocious last season, and yet they won the Superbowl, in part because Wilson used his abilities to negate the pass rush. If you want examples of Brady's decline, watch the whole season, not just the Bills' game. He's had 2 very good games (against Buffalo and Cincinnati), and the rest were quite pedestrian. Now if you don't mind, since I've stated my opinion thoroughly enough, I'm going to let this point rest so that the Watkins discussion can resume...I'm sure you understand. I'm disappointed to see this argument coming from you. To use championships as the measuring stick for individual performance in the ultimate team sport that fields at least 24 starters defies all logic and is about as lazy as analysis gets. Is it really your argument that the reason the Pats haven't won more SBs is because Brady got worse after turning 27? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm disappointed to see this argument coming from you. To use championships as the measuring stick for individual performance in the ultimate team sport that fields at least 24 starters defies all logic and is about as lazy as analysis gets. Is it really your argument that the reason the Pats haven't won more SBs is because Brady got worse after turning 27? I'm sure you're only asking this because it would be a pain to read through the entire discussion. All I was saying was that Brady was no longer among the elite (at least not in the last 1-1/2 years). He can no longer put a team on his back and get them to the Superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm sure you're only asking this because it would be a pain to read through the entire discussion. All I was saying was that Brady was no longer among the elite (at least not in the last 1-1/2 years). He can no longer put a team on his back and get them to the Superbowl. I read the discussion, and I don't entirely disagree with your conclusion. I just don't like that rationale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The results of this poll probably depend on the week you ask it. If he caught the game winning TD as he did Sunday, the horde votes he is worth the trade. I it is after his dismal showing in ame4 he ain't. This question unfortunately needs t wi until after his third year in order o produce an answer not subject to radical change due to real unavoidable change due to the reality of what happens. To this point though the impressive thing is not simply his personal accomplishments but how he helps others perform better. : 1. Whether it is EJ or Orton, Watkins has excelled in a victory QB'ed by these players neither who whom is consistently adequate in their pay. He makes our QBs better payers with he separation he produces and his stickyhands 2. The OL clearly has its problems but this makes the ability he has shown to get quick separation all the more important. 3. Hackett has been learning at best on calling working plays. Watkins gave Hackett a chance to make a good call on the last play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 @nfl: 122 yards, 2 TDs in Week 7. Can Sammy Watkins replicate that type of success moving forward? http://t.co/zQWO28C24Y http://t.co/glW5QnzaFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Surprised no one compared this to the Julio Jones trade, also with the Browns. I think Bills gave up a lot less than Falcons. In that case, looks like Browns should have stayed pat. Of course with Orton playing QB, the pick should not be a top 10 either. So, risky move at the time of the trade, and is becoming more lopsided towards Buffalo as the year moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Surprised no one compared this to the Julio Jones trade, also with the Browns. I think Bills gave up a lot less than Falcons. In that case, looks like Browns should have stayed pat. Of course with Orton playing QB, the pick should not be a top 10 either. So, risky move at the time of the trade, and is becoming more lopsided towards Buffalo as the year moves on. Yeah on the original trade that "cornucopia of (crappy) draft picks" was pointed out. I think the Browns would take Julio Jones over the steaming pile of waste any day of the week. Edited October 24, 2014 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Surprised no one compared this to the Julio Jones trade, also with the Browns. I think Bills gave up a lot less than Falcons. In that case, looks like Browns should have stayed pat. Of course with Orton playing QB, the pick should not be a top 10 either. So, risky move at the time of the trade, and is becoming more lopsided towards Buffalo as the year moves on. It was brought up a few time numerous pages ago, like halfway through this thread. I don't think it's a good comparison only because the Falcons gave up sooo much more and had to move up a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It was brought up a few time numerous pages ago, like halfway through this thread. I don't think it's a good comparison only because the Falcons gave up sooo much more and had to move up a lot more. And they still came out ahead of the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 And they still came out ahead of the Browns. Yup. Mostly because the Browns were crappy drafters that year and the next. It was two number ones, a two and two fours I think. So it was an extra two and an extra four. Although they moved up from 27 to 6 or something like that. I was convinced the Watkins trade was a good one as soon as they made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) I'm sure you're only asking this because it would be a pain to read through the entire discussion. All I was saying was that Brady was no longer among the elite (at least not in the last 1-1/2 years). He can no longer put a team on his back and get them to the Superbowl. Yep, he's obviously slipping. Edited October 26, 2014 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Gotta bench Sammy for this: https://vine.co/v/OhLT7iguaFJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Um, he's good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 im not even mad, think he needed a little humbling - its a good lesson to learn in a game like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Rookie mistake. Actually probably better it happened in this game where we still scored a TD and blew them out, rather than a loss where it would be made into a huge deal by the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) But he did it again. The showboat. he was lucky those two defenders gave up on the play i dont like it one bit Edited October 26, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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