filthymcnasty08 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 We could have had joe Montana or Brady or Tebow ...lmao smh This is the logic I absolutely love: because all 32 teams passed on him twice (without factoring in individual team needs and pick values), everyone failed so singling out the Bills is ridiculous. Nobody saw Brady becoming what he is. Nobody. Conversely, 50+% of this board ahead of the draft were posting about taking Wilson with a mid round pick. Everyone agreed that the guy has intangibles off the charts (brains, leadership, drive, work ethic) and a highly-accurate arm. The only concern would be how his game translated to the pro level. We discussed that Wisconsin's line were similarly sized to a NFL line so it was a good indication that his height would not be the issue. We had a need at the position and we addressed other primary needs with picks 1-2, it was right there for us in the 3rd. If you read a transcript of the Shout Box at that time, it was a foregone conclusion by many of us that we had traded up to get him. It was another bizarre surreal draft day moment as a Bills fan when our pick came from left field. Same EXACT way we thought its 100% Orakpo….no way it's not Orakpo….this is it….can't wait to get Orakpo!……….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 This organization makes a lot of stupid moves that keep setting it backwards - like getting rid of Marshawn for CJ when we were in dire need of a QB. The TJ Graham pick when we need a QB to get the ball to a small WR first. Etc.. Etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 One of the biggest misconceptions is that a small guy isn't going to be good enough because of his size but if you look back at some players that were small in stature we can see that their size had nothing to do with their heart ... You cant look only at exceptions to a rule and then call the rule flawed. There will always be exceptions but on a large scale the rule holds. Just because some shorter guys have had good careers doesnt mean that you dont consider height when evaluating a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Are there actually Bills fans defending the failure to draft Russell Wilson? Are we really going to pretend it's 20/20 hindsight when half the board was completely stoked when they heard we'd moved up because we figured Wilson was the obvious pick? To me that blunder ranks right up there with benching Flutie, dropping Bledsoe, and drafting Maybin. It was !@#$ing stupid. Only the most irrationally blinded of ODB apologists could possibly defend that move. You assume that Russell Wilson is plug-n-play awesome and not the result of the players he's surrounded by. Yes, the Bills could have drafted Wilson and he could have stunk because at the time we did not have the level of talent that Seattle had to insulate Wilson. The Seahawks also gave him time to settle into the job. In Buffalo he would have been declared a bust in preseason. We seem to think that the NFL is like a Madden game. That every player comes with a magic number. Players don't win. Teams win. This organization makes a lot of stupid moves that keep setting it backwards - like getting rid of Marshawn for CJ when we were in dire need of a QB. The TJ Graham pick when we need a QB to get the ball to a small WR first. Etc.. Etc... You gloss over the fact that Marshawn hated it in Buffalo and wanted out. He loves playing on the west coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 You assume that Russell Wilson is plug-n-play awesome and not the result of the players he's surrounded by. Yes, the Bills could have drafted Wilson and he could have stunk because at the time we did not have the level of talent that Seattle had to insulate Wilson. The Seahawks also gave him time to settle into the job. In Buffalo he would have been declared a bust in preseason. We seem to think that the NFL is like a Madden game. That every player comes with a magic number. Players don't win. Teams win. You gloss over the fact that Marshawn hated it in Buffalo and wanted out. He loves playing on the west coast. See my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 See my point. And your point is what? That WIlson was instant gold all by himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Don't ruin a good story. What's wrong with you. As I've stated on more than one occasion here over the past couple decades...I'm a bad person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 And your point is what? That WIlson was instant gold all by himself? No offense dude, but the Bills could trade their D-line for a punter and you'd defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I wish it had worked out differently fit the Bills, but guess how many teams passed on Russell Wilson? 32, including his own. Twice. Their plans A and B consisted of Matt Flynn and Charlie Whitehurst. So, there's that. I mean, you may as well complain that we didn't end up with Brady, because the odds on those picks aren't high. The one takeaway from the Wilson story is that maybe NFL talent evaluators will reconsider the importance of height relative to other factors. But it certainly won't eliminate it, and it should be noted that Wilson is an ultra-rare case in most respects. Also, no one in the universe underrated Barry Sanders, FWIW. He was recognized as a baller from the get go. Putting Flutie or Kenny Davis in his company (or Wilson's) is kind of a joke. The part that bothers me the most is this mid round flyer that everyone was so for doesn't state that they knew he would be great. These people are angry that there wasn't a stab in the dark for Wilson and that they are oh so knowledgeable. Yet there are so many mid round misses. In fact almost all of the mid round qb picks are misses. So yes great for any of you that liked Wilson before the draft. All I ask is that you are honest with yourself about how many QBs you liked in other years that didn't work out. So Russell Wilson is not really a great young QB and if EJ just had that defense..... Facts: Wilson tied Manning's rookie TD passing record. Wilson has had a QB rating of over 100 both years he has been in the league. Wilson is the only QB other than Cunningham to rush for 1000+ yards and throw for 50+ TD in his first two seasons. Wilson led his team to a Super Bowl win his 2nd season. Wilson is a smart, dual threat QB who is extremely athletic and can beat you in many ways. EJ is a hardworking and likeable guy who cannot complete simple NFL throws on a consistent basis. The truth hurts. Facts: In his last 4 regular season games last year he passed for less than 200 yds in all but 1 (206). This included a game where he threw for 108 yards. In his first playoff game against the saints last year he threw for 103 yards. His high yards in a game last playoffs where HE (lol) led the team to the Super Bowl was 215. All of last year he had 2 games where he threw for more than 300 yards. He had 3 games where his completion % was less that 50 He had 3 more games in the 50s for completion % He threw a pick in all but 5 games last season. See I can play this game too. You have to be blind watching these games to think it is WIlson winning these games and not their Defense and Running Game. I have plenty more stats too if you would like to continue... There is no debate. Russell Wilson IS one of the top young QBs in the game. Trying to argue otherwise is a waste of time. Yes he is one of the top YOUNG qbs in the game. He also has the benefit of not being asked to do too much. This is a plan that I hope the Bills are planning on following. His development is as much a credit to Wilson as it is to that team around him including the coaches. Absolutely he does, but hes also a very good QB. Top 10 in the league no question. Just watch him play. He has all the intangibles EJ doesn't have. Yet Buddy and teams passed on him because he's 5' 10". EJ's got big hands though.... Why single out Buddy? Everyone did it. Also if you dig around Seattle took him a full round ahead of where they originally planned because they knew/thought that the Bills were going to take him in the 4th. Words out of my own mouth. Wilson ok maybe he is over rated maybe not. I qualify that because he has only been 3 years. But no one will argue that Aaron Rodgers is top 3 in this league. I saw everything that people on this board complain about happen in that game. How many passes were off target; under thrown, over thrown, almost intercepted. How may times did we see a drink and dunk. I remember specifically in the 4th qtr the analyst said Rodger has goneb11-14 on throws under 11 yards... WITH NO YAC. Then only huge difference between what they do and what we do is they throw the ball down field to keep the defense honest. But lets face it. Unless Watkins is something like Percy Havin, expecting this team to be able to do what we saw on thursday night is insane. EJ is a west coast offense qb so he will not be airing it out 5-10 times a game. If the offense had a self determined identity, they would play much better. I just put this in here to say good post! I think Wilson is over rated. I don't thikn he is bad by any stretch I just don't think he is an amazing talent capable of strapping a team on his back. Once he gets that big contract the Hawks will go the way of the Ravens ala Flacco. You assume that Russell Wilson is plug-n-play awesome and not the result of the players he's surrounded by. Yes, the Bills could have drafted Wilson and he could have stunk because at the time we did not have the level of talent that Seattle had to insulate Wilson. The Seahawks also gave him time to settle into the job. In Buffalo he would have been declared a bust in preseason. We seem to think that the NFL is like a Madden game. That every player comes with a magic number. Players don't win. Teams win. This is exactly where I fall. I think he would have failed in Buffalo. He would have been asked to do too much. He is the benefactor of short fields, tired defenses, phenomenal run game, and excellent coaching. Which of those would have applied to him here? If you check out there stats through their first 10 games I think most ppl would be shocked at how similar they are. Manuel threw for more yard (1972 to 1827) and was close in completion % (61.91 to 58.82) He was also close in td:int (15:8 to 11:9). Wilson did perform better from a W-L perspective but we all have to be smart enough to know you can't view QB performance (especially Wins and Losses) in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Polian got fired because he had an explosive blowup with people in Ralph's inner circle. The decision was made during his final season but he stayed on so as not to cause a disruption to the season. He was NOT "run out of town" by the fans as you suggested. And there is no reason to argue that a guy who tied the rookie passing TD record, has a career QB rating over 100, and won a Super Bowl in his 2nd season is not one of the top young QBs in this league. Bills fans have a warped idea of reality. Wilson is a star in this league, and is respected by his peers for his intelligence, athleticism and leadership. You're entitled to try to diminish the guy but he is a straight up winner and the Bills passed over him because they were hell bent on proving that Fitzpatrick was a real QB. Finally, nobody is saying Wilson wins alone. How come Matt Flynn didn't play after signing that big contract up there when Wilson was a rookie? After all, all they do is run the ball and play defense anyway. But you guys are right: that dummy Pete Carroll CLEARLY doesn't understand football! Edited September 5, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 But you guys are right: that dummy Pete Carroll CLEARLY doesn't understand football! I haven't seen one person in this thread make this claim. In fact many of us have alluded to the fact that the coaching is a big part for his success in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 According to what? They had nearly identical YPC to the Bills and allowed just as many QB hits. You say "ended up 9th"...in what metric? I stand corrected. My results were for the offensive ranking not the offensive line that I was looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Russell Wilson doesn't need to throw for 300 yards. He can run (and makes big plays with his feet) and he stays healthy as well, unlike most of these new running type QBs. I do think that some of you are correct to wonder how well he would have done with the coaching the Bills have had. What would "Saint Doug" do with him, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I stand corrected. My results were for the offensive ranking not the offensive line that I was looking at. Ok that makes sense then...I wasn't trying to give you a hard time; just didn't know what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 You do not amass a 100+ QBR over your first 2 years courtesy of your defense. You can easily amass high QB ratings by not having to do much because of a stout defense. Take a look at the number of attempts and yardage for Wilson and compare to other tob QBs such as Brees, Brady, Manning. He was asked to do a lot less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 So Russell Wilson is not really a great young QB and if EJ just had that defense..... Facts: Wilson tied Manning's rookie TD passing record. Wilson has had a QB rating of over 100 both years he has been in the league. Wilson is the only QB other than Cunningham to rush for 1000+ yards and throw for 50+ TD in his first two seasons. Wilson led his team to a Super Bowl win his 2nd season. Wilson is a smart, dual threat QB who is extremely athletic and can beat you in many ways. EJ is a hardworking and likeable guy who cannot complete simple NFL throws on a consistent basis. The truth hurts. You add all of this to what he did in his very first preseason to take the job away from the veteran QB they had (which wasn't that great) it tells the tape right from the get go on just what kind of QB Wilson was going to be . The same thing i think is happening this year in Oakland & possibly Jacksonville only time will tell but those 2 rookies are putting it out there for all to see & our second year guy that has two years in this offense can't score but 1 TD in the preseason . Red Flag ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 No offense dude, but the Bills could trade their D-line for a punter and you'd defend it. Not defending not drafting Wilson "DUDE!" Just saying Wilson wouldn't make the Bills a winner by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Hey, remember that time we missed on that guy named Tom Brady? Hey, remember that time when the kick went wide to the right? Hey, remember that time the officials screwed up the replay review and didn't call it a forward pass? Look, every franchise can turn around. Tampa did it, Seattle did it. The Bills can do it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Ok that makes sense then...I wasn't trying to give you a hard time; just didn't know what you meant. Not a problem bandit. I know your intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Not a problem bandit. I know your intentions. So I should put away that slab of bacon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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