EJ and an excellent dissection of what happened against Tampa

[Kelly the Dog]

Its not clear to me why fans would think anything posted on BuffaloBills.com as "journalism" would be objective. Its a public relations and marketing site, not a news site.

So his actually breakdown of plays, which are very detailed, and explain what happen, shouldering the blame on one player instead of another, which is easy to see on the replays, is flawed somehow and not to be trusted, because he's paid to be an analyst?

[26CornerBlitz]

Take a look at the posts in this thread and it will be easy to discern who listened to the Kelso segment objectively from those who did not or simply cannot.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

I saw EJ at FSU and never really saw him as a legitimate bigtime NFL QB. He always looked physically like he had the tools but never saw him show talent thar the Bills see inhim, that's for sure.

[rcatty]

blah, blah, blah....Kelso and Murphy are paid Bills employees (directly or indirectly). The bottom line is that the proof is in the pudding....he hasn't done it and until he does he be viewed as inept. Recall that just about every football analyst had him earmarked as a third or 4th round talent that would be a developmental, work in progress. The geniuses at One Bills Drive, those that have steered us to zero appearances in the playoffs for 14 years, who arguably are smarter and better versed than most of the league experts, picked him as their savior QB, 16th overall. Today, just about everyone would agree he has performed no better than a third or fouth round pick, and that he is a work in progress. You either make the plays or you don't. Period. So far he hasn't made his share of the plays.

 

Buddy Nix needed to draft a QB the year before he drafted Manuel. However he got suckered by Fitzsimmons by giving him a big contract, and then watching him crumble on the field. (BTW Fitzsimmons was able to get to the bank to cash his check jsut fine). A sharper GM would have drafted someone in the year when all of those QB prospects came out.

 

What about Whaley? Why pass up on Nassib last year? He looks a heck of a lot better than Manuel.Oh yeah, I forgot, One Bills Drive is smarter than evryone else, including Tom Caughlin (winner of some Super Bowls) !

[thebandit27]

blah, blah, blah....Kelso and Murphy are paid Bills employees (directly or indirectly). The bottom line is that the proof is in the pudding....he hasn't done it and until he does he be viewed as inept. Recall that just about every football analyst had him earmarked as a third or 4th round talent that would be a developmental, work in progress. The geniuses at One Bills Drive, those that have steered us to zero appearances in the playoffs for 14 years, who arguably are smarter and better versed than most of the league experts, picked him as their savior QB, 16th overall. Today, just about everyone would agree he has performed no better than a third or fouth round pick, and that he is a work in progress. You either make the plays or you don't. Period. So far he hasn't made his share of the plays.

 

Buddy Nix needed to draft a QB the year before he drafted Manuel. However he got suckered by Fitzsimmons by giving him a big contract, and then watching him crumble on the field. (BTW Fitzsimmons was able to get to the bank to cash his check jsut fine). A sharper GM would have drafted someone in the year when all of those QB prospects came out.

 

What about Whaley? Why pass up on Nassib last year? He looks a heck of a lot better than Manuel.Oh yeah, I forgot, One Bills Drive is smarter than evryone else, including Tom Caughlin (winner of some Super Bowls) !

 

I have no idea why this gets repeated with some level of frequency around these parts. It's simply not true.

 

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/3/7/4076876/mike-mayock-moves-ej-manuel-to-number-two-on-his-qb-board

 

(won't allow Bleacher Report link, so Google "why-florida-state-qb-ej-manuel-will-be-the-first-taken")

 

http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/04/24/draft-buzz-ej-manuel-on-the-rise/

[26CornerBlitz]

blah, blah, blah....Kelso and Murphy are paid Bills employees (directly or indirectly). The bottom line is that the proof is in the pudding....he hasn't done it and until he does he be viewed as inept. Recall that just about every football analyst had him earmarked as a third or 4th round talent that would be a developmental, work in progress. The geniuses at One Bills Drive, those that have steered us to zero appearances in the playoffs for 14 years, who arguably are smarter and better versed than most of the league experts, picked him as their savior QB, 16th overall. Today, just about everyone would agree he has performed no better than a third or fouth round pick, and that he is a work in progress. You either make the plays or you don't. Period. So far he hasn't made his share of the plays.

 

Buddy Nix needed to draft a QB the year before he drafted Manuel. However he got suckered by Fitzsimmons by giving him a big contract, and then watching him crumble on the field. (BTW Fitzsimmons was able to get to the bank to cash his check jsut fine). A sharper GM would have drafted someone in the year when all of those QB prospects came out.

 

What about Whaley? Why pass up on Nassib last year? He looks a heck of a lot better than Manuel.Oh yeah, I forgot, One Bills Drive is smarter than evryone else, including Tom Caughlin (winner of some Super Bowls) !

 

My reaction is ditto as in blah, blah, blah!

[NoSaint]

I also saw EJ go 10-10 for over 100 yards and a td pass...back to back td drives. yes it was against back ups, but it still happened. I also saw offensive linemen miss assignments and hold, receivers slip an drop passes also...but yeah, all falls on EJ. of course it does!

 

And I'll be the first to admit it's less impressive against backups, but he did what would expected and probably more- and that's a positive even if it's not earth shattering.

[rcatty]

I strongly suggest you re-read the first article you cited. There, it mentions the fact that EJ is considered a project.

[BigBuff423]

 

 

The internal inconsistency here is stark. You can not be a "very gifted QB" and also "not able to process NFL speed". EJ is blessed with the famouse "protypical size" and "arm strength". Much like Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell were.

 

None of them were able to "process NFL speed". Also Leaf and Russell did not have EJ's apparent work ethic. But in addition to those guys the historical NFL landscape is littered with guys who had prototypical size and arm strength. The mental aspect of the game, reading defense and processing NFL speed is what separates very gifted athletes from very gifted QBs. At this stage EJ has demonstrated that he is a gifted athlete, but not yet demonstrated that he is a gifted QB.

 

 

 

Its not clear to me why fans would think anything posted on BuffaloBills.com as "journalism" would be objective. Its a public relations and marketing site, not a news site.

 

Respectfully, to your first statement you are wrong, at least in my opinion as apparently I am wrong in yours. EJ not only *can* be a gifted QB, but in my assessment *IS* a gifted QB, but gifted does not translate to "perfect". In my mind it means the physical attributes and capabilities to be an NFL caliber QB are housed within his physical attributes and therefore, gifted due to the D.N.A. provided along with his long-term commitment to playing the game. The mental aspect of processing Defenses is merely another realm of "gifted", but does not require it to be inclusive to the terminology...as in, Chad Pennington: to me Pennington was extremely gifted in his accuracy and mental acumen for football while his arm strength was sub-par by NFL standards, it does not reduce his talent in certain areas, it merely means he's not "perfect", ala Peyton Manning....but to each his own, however, please do not offer your opinion in a way that trumps mine or attempt to reduce it a subservient role just because you disagree. And, I love debate and insight from all people because many times I find my opinion swayed or altered in some manner by listening / reading what others have to say, unless they are rude, dismissive, or juvenile...making it all the more difficult on this board, but I say that because I welcome diverging opinion from my own, it helps me refine my own or adjust my perspective, which again I like and welcome....

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

And I'll be the first to admit it's less impressive against backups, but he did what would expected and probably more- and that's a positive even if it's not earth shattering.

Yep, although according to the haters he had all day and open receivers in the first half but simply cannot process information quickly or throw accurate passes, and that really wouldn't matter whether they were first or second stringers.

 

He didn't have a good first half. He missed a couple throws he would like to have hit. A couple other throws that it looked like he missed he didn't actually miss. Everyone would have liked to have seen him do better. There is nothing he can do right now to make the people who just don't see it in him that will make them see it, and it is true. Until he does it consistently in the regular season games even the most ardent supporters cannot say he can.

 

The only difference is half the people think they already know, which they don't, it's just a guess, and half the people think we need to let him get some experience to know either way.

[CardinalScotts]

its a great listen and should knock a lot of guys of the panic button, except if you work at WGR

[26CornerBlitz]

And I'll be the first to admit it's less impressive against backups, but he did what would expected and probably more- and that's a positive even if it's not earth shattering.

 

I saw EJ make several impressive throws in the two second half drives. He processed information quickly and made decisive, accurate throws both in and out of the pocket. It's not the 1st time I've seen it in the preseason, but he certainly needs to do it on a more consistent basis. There have been several down field throws he has made to receivers before they've been out of their breaks and it represents real progress from last season.

 

Need to see much more of it as time moves forward. I'm looking forward to seeing him with the full playbook at his disposal and a full complement of available weapons. No excuses once the bullets begin to fly in earnest.

Edited August 27, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[CardinalScotts]

its a great listen and should knock a lot of guys of the panic button, except if you work at WGR

 

I love how we point out each individual missed throw, no one is completing 100% but listening to others you would think all qb's besides EJ are 100% accurate with every throw of every game.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Yep, although according to the haters he had all day and open receivers in the first half but simply cannot process information quickly or throw accurate passes, and that really wouldn't matter whether they were first or second stringers.

 

He didn't have a good first half. He missed a couple throws he would like to have hit. A couple other throws that it looked like he missed he didn't actually miss. Everyone would have liked to have seen him do better. There is nothing he can do right now to make the people who just don't see it in him that will make them see it, and it is true. Until he does it consistently in the regular season games even the most ardent supporters cannot say he can.

 

The only difference is half the people think they already know, which they don't, it's just a guess, and half the people think we need to let him get some experience to know either way.

 

Your trying to hard. By NFL standards EJ is not "gifted", unless you are saying the 20 QBs who have had far more demonstrated success at the NFL level are also gifted.

[thebandit27]

I strongly suggest you re-read the first article you cited. There, it mentions the fact that EJ is considered a project.

 

In return, I strongly suggest that you re-read your post to which I responded, which indicated that every analyst saw him as a 3rd or 4th round talent. Indeed, that was not even close to correct.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Good listen. Basically line was bad, WRs ran some bad routes, guys slipped, some balls were thrown on the wrong hip or shoulder....

 

This was a team loss not an indictment of the QB...

 

Interesting to me there was only one real WTF throw when I looked at the game again. Turned out throw was where it should have been and woods was not based on Kelso. Maybe EJ isn't the worst QB on the face of the earth just yet...

 

Also, if the line is lousey, the running game isn't going and the WRs run the wrong routes, no young QB is going to win the game on his own.

 

There are a few that can overcome this, but certainly not Manuel... Not now, maybe never....I absolutely don't think that makes him a lousey QB.

 

You've got Brady, Peyton... And then everyone else. Even Rodgers and Brees haven't been able to carry weaker teams to the playoffs yeah after year.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Dragonborn10]

I realize it is a home opener for the Bears. But there defense is awful. This is a bit of hyperbole, but if EJ fails in game one we should prepare for 4-12. There is every reason for EJ to put up great numbers against the Bears.

Same thing can be said for the OL with maybe Seantrel getting a pass for inexperience.

[Kelly the Dog]

Your trying to hard. By NFL standards EJ is not "gifted", unless you are saying the 20 QBs who have had far more demonstrated success at the NFL level are also gifted.

That may or may not be true, if I ever said he was gifted, which I didn't.

 

The termed gifted is also often, if not most often, used to describe god-given physical attributes and skills, and not intangibles. You are not usually "gifted" with accuracy although you usually have it or you don't. EJ is gifted with great size and athletic ability and arm strength.

[Buftex]

I think stories of Manuels suckiness have been completely overblown the last two weeks... and I will take it a step further, despite the awful first half for the offense agaisnt the Bucs, I liked a lot of what EJ did. I think he is making progress. True, it isn't as fast, perhaps, as some would like...but he is making good decisions.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I realize it is a home opener for the Bears. But there defense is awful. This is a bit of hyperbole, but if EJ fails in game one we should prepare for 4-12. There is every reason for EJ to put up great numbers against the Bears.

Same thing can be said for the OL with maybe Seantrel getting a pass for inexperience.

 

Wait there defense is aweful means, when the bills are there, their defense will be aweful too?

 

If you look at the bills last year it was simple. If the couldn't get running game going they struggled. When they did, they did pretty ok.

 

This year it should be a similar on that side of the ball, with perhaps the passing offense being able to shoulder a little more. They also have been running screens a lot in preseason which I thought we saw too infrequently last year... (Granted the steelers blew it up every time)

 

Here's my observation d is going to be different this year.

 

Run d far better, passing d.... Not so sure.

 

Spikes can't cover a back out of the backfield (see first tampa TD) and teams with good underneath passing will cause problems.

 

Also, they are going to need to get better at safety. After AW I am not so sure they have pass coverage ability. Here is hoping Graham can play safety. In the case you keep McK and Gilmore outside, run Robey in the slot and aw and Graham in the back.

 

Swap Robey for duke or searcy and flip around only if you need a bigger nickel.

 

C'mon Gilmore.... You are the lynchpin that will allow this thing to make or break.