Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 In order: Not necessarily Typically Let's see the evidence. Both Peyton an Brady has season-ending injuries as well-established vets Same answer as the last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yet another compelling argument rife with facts and logical justification. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yet another compelling argument rife with facts and logical justification. Oh wait... I tried to illustrate there are many factors that can increase the chance of getting a player injured. I also tried to show some players are simply more durable then otheres. Cam Newtons big, but still defies the odds of injury because hes also very durable. small players can also be durable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I tried to illustrate there are many factors that can increase the chance of getting a player injured. I also tried to show some players are simply more durable then otheres. Cam Newtons big, but still defies the odds of injury because hes also very durable. small players can also be durable... If you're trying to show that, then why are you asking me to agree with your correlation between size and injury? Injuries can happen to any player at any time. The greatest modifiable factor is playing style. QBs that spend more time outside the pocket get hurt more often than those that stay in as a rule. The more Johnny puts himself in that position, the more likely he is to get hurt. I'm yet to see/hear any compelling argument against that. The idea that he's smaller and therefore less likely to get hurt doesn't ring true for me. The Vick example is just one reason why. Drew Brees is roughly the same size as Vick, and Brees had one major injury (which occurred while he was scrambling outside the pocket). The reason Brees is so durable is that he stays home and delivers the ball quickly. That's not Manziel's game, and thus I don't expect him to be nearly as durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) If you're trying to show that, then why are you asking me to agree with your correlation between size and injury? Injuries can happen to any player at any time. The greatest modifiable factor is playing style. QBs that spend more time outside the pocket get hurt more often than those that stay in as a rule. The more Johnny puts himself in that position, the more likely he is to get hurt. I'm yet to see/hear any compelling argument against that. The idea that he's smaller and therefore less likely to get hurt doesn't ring true for me. The Vick example is just one reason why. Drew Brees is roughly the same size as Vick, and Brees had one major injury (which occurred while he was scrambling outside the pocket). The reason Brees is so durable is that he stays home and delivers the ball quickly. That's not Manziel's game, and thus I don't expect him to be nearly as durable. You do agree by being elusive, it cuts down on the number of hits, no? You do agree a QB without mobility can get injured because of it, no? Edited August 10, 2014 by Donald Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) You do agree by being elusive, it cuts down on the number of hits, no? You do agree a QB without mobility can get injured because of it, no? As much as you want to turn the discussion into a series of absolutes that results in there being no significant injury risk to his style of play, that simply is not the case. Does being elusive help? Sometimes, yes. Why not all the time? Because nobody is elusive enough to avoi all hits. Even a guy like Vick, who is an unquestionably better athlete than Manziel, took too many hits. Sometimes a lack of mobility can get a QB hurt. Doesn't always. Peyton is one of the least mobile QBs ever to play--he's played 16 games every season in which he's stepped on the field. Style of play matters more than size or athleticism. I'm not backing off that idea. Edited August 10, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) That is one determined, stubborn Duck. JF has been defying people and odds and record books for two full years. No one knows whether he is going to be able to continue this defiance. I think he has a decent chance. If I HAD to bet on it I guess I would say no but it wouldn't be by much. Mike Vick is the closest thing and Mike Vick played 10 years, made it into playoffs and signed $100m contracts. Actually, I think Doug Flutie is the closest parallel in terms of skillset and style of of play. And he missed very few games due to injury. Edited August 10, 2014 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 This thread greatly resembles a shoutbox conversation I know I have seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I wondered where he ended up. Nice gig a mil or two a year for holding a clipboard and taking a pass to the head every so often. other than pre season he is well rested. Honestly, its hard to believe he's in the league yet. So judging by some comments since Johnny football is not a Bill he automatically sucks? His Vegas personality is weird, but like others said he can take a pounding. unlike other QB's in the league. he also shows an extreme desire to win. I hope grows up and wish him the best. I saw some highlights.... One thing that stuck out is that his throwing motion looks like it requires a lot of "ass" behind it.... Doesn't look effortless... Will have to watch more to see if that was a one time thing or if that's "him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) As much as you want to turn the discussion into a series of absolutes that results in there being no significant injury risk to his style of play, that simply is not the case. Does being elusive help? Sometimes, yes. Why not all the time? Because nobody is elusive enough to avoi all hits. Even a guy like Vick, who is an unquestionably better athlete than Manziel, took too many hits. Sometimes a lack of mobility can get a QB hurt. Doesn't always. Peyton is one of the least mobile QBs ever to play--he's played 16 games every season in which he's stepped on the field. Style of play matters more than size or athleticism. I'm not backing off that idea. Matching a players skill set/ style of play with the scheming/ Offense they run is very important and helps prevent injury IMO. Edited August 10, 2014 by Donald Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Actually, I think Doug Flutie is the closest parallel in terms of skillset and style of of play. And he missed very few games due to injury. He also played very few nfl games. He only started 16 once. Only started 10 or more 3 times. You do agree by being elusive, it cuts down on the number of hits, no? You do agree a QB without mobility can get injured because of it, no? You would likewise have to concede that running the ball 1.5 times per drive would expose him to a lot more potential hits, even if he can dodge some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 He also played very few nfl games. He only started 16 once. Only started 10 or more 3 times. You would likewise have to concede that running the ball 1.5 times per drive would expose him to a lot more potential hits, even if he can dodge some of them. yes, I do concede the amount of times JF runs the ball increases his chance of injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 1st pass was complete. Tried a run- a designed play- at 3rd and 1 and was denied. Looks poised. Sad thing is in the end he looked more poised and in command than EJ does even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I didn't say Johnny football was too small. I said he is going to get absolutely !@#$ed up by THE BILLS on November 30th. And by !@#$ed up I mean the defense is going to hit him over and over and over and over again until he is too traumatized to ever pick up a football again. November 30th is going to be a joyous day when Buffalo absolutely smashes the Browns and the legend of Johnny football into oblivion. I like ur style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 As much as you want to turn the discussion into a series of absolutes that results in there being no significant injury risk to his style of play, that simply is not the case. Does being elusive help? Sometimes, yes. Why not all the time? Because nobody is elusive enough to avoi all hits. Even a guy like Vick, who is an unquestionably better athlete than Manziel, took too many hits. Sometimes a lack of mobility can get a QB hurt. Doesn't always. Peyton is one of the least mobile QBs ever to play--he's played 16 games every season in which he's stepped on the field. Style of play matters more than size or athleticism. I'm not backing off that idea. Johny will be fine, in a couple of years he will fill out and be able to take the blows more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Johny will be fine, in a couple of years he will fill out and be able to take the blows more Please re-read the final paragraph of the post to which you responded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Johny will be fine, in a couple of years he will fill out and be able to take the blows more Or he won't be be fine because in a couple more years he will do more blow and fill out too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Kids tougher then most folks give him credit and after watching his highlights its obvious to me JF is going to pick up right where he left off at the collegiate level IMO. Might take a few games to get comfortable with the Offense/supporting cast, but I expect JF to start tearing up the league just like he said he would this season. Odds don't agree with you as far as JF tearing up the league in his rookie year. Only a few have ever done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Let's see Johnny Football tear up some second-stringers and begin his march to a 10-6 OROY season. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT ! I dont think so ! I like ur style! +2 GreggyT is the Man with the right attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I thought the announcer got that play all wrong. When the Fb was open he had the other defender right in his face that was trying to kill him. IMO there was no way he could have got that pass off even if it was five yards. By the time he got by the first guy I would doubt that the Fb was wide open like that and he didn't throw it. He looked like he was looking for anyone before he darted to the yard marker. I agree with this. The angle at which the play was run live looked like the FB was wide open, but the angle of the replay told a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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