What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Big Blitz]

15 hours ago, B-Man said:

Culture is a powerful force for good. When good behavior is normalized and deviant destructive behavior is ostracized, shamed, and marginalized, you get more good behavior.

 

Considering evil in this debate makes some of you uncomfortable, but evil bathes all of these shootings.

 

The idea that guns caused the carnage we have faced is so intellectually bankrupt that it isn’t worth discussing.

 

Remembering where we were as a nation just 30 years ago makes it even more so. It’s time to ask what changed.

 

 

 

After 9/11 we were told we can't sacrifice our freedoms - we actually did and we're worse off.  

 

We created an entire new Department with more power.  We expanded a tool (Patriot Act) that might just indirectly make it possible for the government to spy on citizens that may just so happen to be running for president.  

 

 

As tragic and disgusting as it is, these actions do not require a response that puts inherent rights at risk.  Make no mistake banning the scary guns leftists have no clue what makes what gun what will eventually lead to banning them all.  So taking away rights is now ok with libs - they offer no other specifics just "blood on your hands!!" 

 

They'll tell you that's not the intent but the Court that hears the challenges to the law - if filled with the right number of Commies can very well say "you do not have a right to a gun."  

 

Amazing how the only law the libs think is forever settled in SCOTUS is abortion (and Obamacare now).

 

But the right you actually fundamentally have and is actually in the Constitution - that one ...... not so much.   

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Big Blitz

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

After 9/11 we were told we can't sacrifice our freedoms - we actually did and we're worse off.  

 

We created an entire new Department with more power.  We expanded a tool (Patriot Act) that might just indirectly make it possible for the government to spy on citizens that may just so happen to be running for president.  

 

 

As tragic and disgusting as it is, these actions do not require a response that puts inherent rights at risk.  Make no mistake banning the scary guns leftists have no clue what makes what gun what will eventually lead to banning them all. 

 

They'll tell you that's not the intent but the Court that hears the challenges to the law - if filled with the right number of Commies can very well say "you do not have a right to a gun."  

 

Amazing how the only law the libs think is forever settled in SCOTUS is abortion (and Obamacare now).

 

But the right you actually fundamentally have and is actually in the Constitution - that one ...... not so much.   

 

 

So your idea is to do nothing?  Instead of talking about banning them why don't we simply talk about the process to get them. Let's change that. We all want guns out of psychos and criminals hands. Lets try and do that instead of throwing up our hands and say whelp...nothing we can do. 

 

[Big Blitz]

5 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

So your idea is to do nothing?  Instead of talking about banning them why don't we simply talk about the process to get them. Let's change that. We all want guns out of psychos and criminals hands. Lets try and do that instead of throwing up our hands and say whelp...nothing we can do. 

 

 

 

Didn't say there was nothing we can do.

 

I'm a no at any ban.  Non starter. 

 

And I'm having a hard time qualifying "mentally ill" when 2022 Earth has completely lowered the bar to me for what I think can be seen as mentally ill or red flagged behavior.  

[B-Man]

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

56 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

The buyer pays for it. We already have red flag laws in I think half the states that bar people from having guns if they are deemed unsafe owners.  I'm not a psychologist but pretty sure we have people smart enough to figure that side out.  All those issues you mentioned yes I'd imagine. 

 

So we are back to punishing the 99% for the 1%

 

The FBI already has things in place to stop most people from buying a firearm that should not own one. It's not foolproof whatsoever, but not sure anything is. The Texas church shooting, the Navy failed to report his dishonorable discharge (which prevents you from buying a firearm). Holes do take place. 

 

But the BIGGEST problem I see is, criminals are still going to steal firearms. If that's breaking into a house or a gun/pawn store (happens often). 

 

My ideas? 

 

• Arm front office workers who are willing to provide that service following training (again, as a former member of the US Army and someone who is very proficient with firearms, I'd do it in a heartbeat). 
• Have single entry/exit access points at schools that are LOCKED at all times. We do that at my school, it's not difficult to do. 
• Have SRO at every school. 
• Require gun owners to lock up their firearms when they are not home (or in a vehicle). If a firearm is stolen, they could face criminal charges. 
• Require ALL stolen or missing firearms to be reported to LEO. This blows me away, if anyone stole ANY of my firearms I'm calling the Sheriff as soon as I can. 

This is a start... 

[muppy]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

you think discourse on chat boards can get testy.  I was flipping news channels earlier and CNN with their coverage in this shooting.  Can it be that This event, in the aftermath of what occurred in Buffalo where people are at breaking point?  The anger and disdain and blame flowing full force from media is to my ears anyway is  unprecedented.

 

If we could harness all the disgust and anger and sadness into a positive direction wouldn't that be just peachy.............

 

pfft. I am sooo cynical that in the age of the NRA and gun lobbies and political factions .....can ANY solutions be attempted to help halt these events from happening.  We indeed live within the perfect storm of gun availibility, mental illness, social media and the dark web....what could Possibly go wrong??

 

SMH There is one topic that Noone has brought up. And that is gun Security. If these firearms are going to be in so many homes...Lock them Up fcol...not the people who own the guns THE GUNS THEMSELVES. Then perhaps they wouldnt be available to be used in a despicable manner?

 

its one thought in a feeble attempt to offer something tangible to the discussion. 

 

Gun culture in the USA......Fear Culture.....fractured government gridlock. Yay. @-@

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jimmy-kimmel-calls-out-cowardly-republicans-by-name-in-scathing-opener/ar-AAXK3gd?cvid=a5edda728f0c4b77be029d4aa1295fbf

 

Quote

Kimmel said most Americans support common-sense gun laws, but legislation had stalled “because our cowardly leaders just aren’t listening to us ― they’re listening to the NRA.” 

Then he went to town on those “cowardly leaders,” particularly Texas GOP lawmakers such as Sens. Ted Cruz and John Cornyn and Gov. Greg Abbott, who’ve called for more armed police and teachers in schools rather than gun control. 

“If your solution to children being massacred is armed guards, you haven’t been paying attention to what’s going on,” Kimmel said. “There was an armed guard in Buffalo. There was an armed guard in Parkland. There was an armed guard in Uvalde.” 

 

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

So we are back to punishing the 99% for the 1%

 

The FBI already has things in place to stop most people from buying a firearm that should not own one. It's not foolproof whatsoever, but not sure anything is. The Texas church shooting, the Navy failed to report his dishonorable discharge (which prevents you from buying a firearm). Holes do take place. 

 

But the BIGGEST problem I see is, criminals are still going to steal firearms. If that's breaking into a house or a gun/pawn store (happens often). 

 

My ideas? 

 

• Arm front office workers who are willing to provide that service following training (again, as a former member of the US Army and someone who is very proficient with firearms, I'd do it in a heartbeat). 
• Have single entry/exit access points at schools that are LOCKED at all times. We do that at my school, it's not difficult to do. 
• Have SRO at every school. 
• Require gun owners to lock up their firearms when they are not home (or in a vehicle). If a firearm is stolen, they could face criminal charges. 
• Require ALL stolen or missing firearms to be reported to LEO. This blows me away, if anyone stole ANY of my firearms I'm calling the Sheriff as soon as I can. 

This is a start... 

 

The issue is that 1 percent is the one who are ruining innocent people's lives. Again, we already have red flag laws. I agree there are always holes but there is a saying that goes...don't let perfect be the enemy of better. We're all trying to just make it better and we realize we can't make it perfect.  We don't just throw our hands up saying well since it won't be perfect we can't do anything oh well. 

 

Yesterday the school had an armed guard who failed to stop the guy from getting in.  I agree all schools should have them cause next time I hope the cop stops them. 

 

All your other ideas are great.  The mental health in this country is terrible. My dad killed himself using nitrous oxide and he'd be in and out of hospitals for years with multiple attempts. I don't say ban nitrous oxide.  Other countries do the mental health e v a l for guns we should do it as looking back on all these shootings they all have that in common. Just angry kids pissed at the world and want to go out guns blazing on the easiest targets.  

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

The issue is that 1 percent is the one who are ruining innocent people's lives. Again, we already have red flag laws. I agree there are always holes but there is a saying that goes...don't let perfect be the enemy of better. We're all trying to just make it better and we realize we can't make it perfect.  We don't just throw our hands up saying well since it won't be perfect we can't do anything oh well. 

 

Yesterday the school had an armed guard who failed to stop the guy from getting in.  I agree all schools should have them cause next time I hope the cop stops them. 

 

All your other ideas are great.  The mental health in this country is terrible. My dad killed himself using nitrous oxide and he'd be in and out of hospitals for years with multiple attempts. I don't say ban nitrous oxide.  Other countries do the mental health e v a l for guns we should do it as looking back on all these shootings they all have that in common. Just angry kids pissed at the world and want to go out guns blazing on the easiest targets.  

 

I don't disagree with "can't do anything" comment. 

 

As for the SRO, I don't believe he was in the school... but outside when it happened. But that said, there are countless stories of SRO stopping gunmen at schools in the United States. It's not fool proof, but they do work. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your father. I too lost a parent to suicide (my mother). 

[aristocrat]

13 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I don't disagree with "can't do anything" comment. 

 

As for the SRO, I don't believe he was in the school... but outside when it happened. But that said, there are countless stories of SRO stopping gunmen at schools in the United States. It's not fool proof, but they do work. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your father. I too lost a parent to suicide (my mother). 

 

It just takes one lapse in security and next thing you know this happens. But we can't have schools which are the favorite target of these mass shooters be that vulnerable to this.  Like, oops one mistake and 21 people die. We'll get him next time. This kid had such a bad childhood that he dropped out, got a job, saved his money just to do this and nobody noticed. Let's have a system that works better. We can all blame mental health let's do something about it.  

[Tiberius]

54 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

So we are back to punishing the 99% for the 1%

 

The FBI already has things in place to stop most people from buying a firearm that should not own one. It's not foolproof whatsoever, but not sure anything is. The Texas church shooting, the Navy failed to report his dishonorable discharge (which prevents you from buying a firearm). Holes do take place. 

 

But the BIGGEST problem I see is, criminals are still going to steal firearms. If that's breaking into a house or a gun/pawn store (happens often). 

 

My ideas? 

 

• Arm front office workers who are willing to provide that service following training (again, as a former member of the US Army and someone who is very proficient with firearms, I'd do it in a heartbeat). 
• Have single entry/exit access points at schools that are LOCKED at all times. We do that at my school, it's not difficult to do. 
• Have SRO at every school. 
• Require gun owners to lock up their firearms when they are not home (or in a vehicle). If a firearm is stolen, they could face criminal charges. 
• Require ALL stolen or missing firearms to be reported to LEO. This blows me away, if anyone stole ANY of my firearms I'm calling the Sheriff as soon as I can. 

This is a start... 

Ban 18 year olds from buying guns? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Ban 18 year olds from buying guns? 

I just disagree with this one. Serve your country at 17 (yes, you can be 17) yet can’t own a hunting rifle. Maybe have more expectations with backgrounds for under 21 buyers?

 

But the SCOTUS already overturned all the min 21 age limit. A legal precedent has been established. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

I just disagree with this one. Serve your country at 17 (yes, you can be 17) yet can’t own a hunting rifle. Maybe have more expectations with backgrounds for under 21 buyers?

 

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

I just disagree with this one. Serve your country at 17 (yes, you can be 17) yet can’t own a hunting rifle. Maybe have more expectations with backgrounds for under 21 buyers?

I think its crazy they can/ 18 is such a young age. Following orders in military after rigorous training: yes.

 

Allowing any 18 year old that wants  a gun, no way. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

The issue is that 1 percent is the one who are ruining innocent people's lives. Again, we already have red flag laws. I agree there are always holes but there is a saying that goes...don't let perfect be the enemy of better. We're all trying to just make it better and we realize we can't make it perfect.  We don't just throw our hands up saying well since it won't be perfect we can't do anything oh well. 

 

Yesterday the school had an armed guard who failed to stop the guy from getting in.  I agree all schools should have them cause next time I hope the cop stops them. 

 

All your other ideas are great.  The mental health in this country is terrible. My dad killed himself using nitrous oxide and he'd be in and out of hospitals for years with multiple attempts. I don't say ban nitrous oxide.  Other countries do the mental health e v a l for guns we should do it as looking back on all these shootings they all have that in common. Just angry kids pissed at the world and want to go out guns blazing on the easiest targets.  

S. Texas Regional Director, Dept of Public Safety (officer) just stated that there was NOT a SRO at the school. The shooter came into an unlocked school with no officer. 

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

S. Texas Regional Director, Dept of Public Safety (officer) just stated that there was NOT a SRO at the school. The shooter came into an unlocked school with no officer. 

 

there have been reports three officers engaged but did not fire at him and he just went in the school.  this keeps changing

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

there have been reports three officers engaged but did not fire at him and he just went in the school.  this keeps changing

 

I'm just reporting what was just said by the Texas DPS director. But he made it clear, there was no SRO on the scene when he entered and started shooting. I'm sure things are fluid with information. 

[BillStime]

Thank you Republicans - you haven’t killed enough ppl have you?

 

 

[BillStime]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

I don't know.  

 

But because secular country that doesn't value life - it values likes - has created a culture of "what's the point" definitely means we should ban all guns.  

 

And that's what they want.  

 

 

 

 

 

Don't ask questions just blame the gun.  

[Tiberius]

Gun, ammunition stocks jump after Texas school massacre

Return to menu

By Aaron Gregg8:05 a.m.

Link copied

Some of America’s largest gun and ammunition makers have seen their stock prices swell since the massacre this week at a Texas grade school.

Smith & Wesson Brands stock has climbed 8.4 percent in the two days since 19 children and two teachers were fatally shot at a grade school in Uvalde, Texas, while Sturm, Ruger & Co., has jumped about 5.7 percent, and ammunition maker Olin Corp. 3.8 percent.

Meanwhile, Ammo Inc. has jumped more than 12 percent in the past week; the Arizona-based maker of ammunition and components also owns GunBroker.com, which it bills as the largest online marketplace for the firearms and shooting sports industries.

Such upswings are not uncommon after a mass shooting or any event that puts gun control in the political spotlight, in the view there will be a rush on guns, ammunition and accessories in advance of any effort to limit access.

8 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those stats  are just hard to get your mind around 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Gun, ammunition stocks jump after Texas school massacre

Return to menu

By Aaron Gregg8:05 a.m.

Link copied

Some of America’s largest gun and ammunition makers have seen their stock prices swell since the massacre this week at a Texas grade school.

Smith & Wesson Brands stock has climbed 8.4 percent in the two days since 19 children and two teachers were fatally shot at a grade school in Uvalde, Texas, while Sturm, Ruger & Co., has jumped about 5.7 percent, and ammunition maker Olin Corp. 3.8 percent.

Meanwhile, Ammo Inc. has jumped more than 12 percent in the past week; the Arizona-based maker of ammunition and components also owns GunBroker.com, which it bills as the largest online marketplace for the firearms and shooting sports industries.

Such upswings are not uncommon after a mass shooting or any event that puts gun control in the political spotlight, in the view there will be a rush on guns, ammunition and accessories in advance of any effort to limit access.

Those stats  are just hard to get your mind around 

What do you expect?  America is in a constant state of war with one country or another somewhere on the planet.  Our society glorifies violence and killing.  The education system is dysfunctional and family and social order are breaking down.  Its the perfect breeding ground for psychos and misfits.  Violence is the one thing America is still good at doing.  Politicians can't agree on anything.  But spending money and sending arms and troops to blow up crap and killing lots of people?  That's something almost all of them can get behind.  Militarize police departments with combat weapons and tactics and they usually wait outside while the place gets shot up.  In this case one motivated border patrol agent passing by the scene decided to take charge and end it.  And there's some bewilderment that shootings occur across the country on a regular basis?  Its a wonder there aren't more of them.

 

Generally, the white liberal majority and the white conservative minority only care about these mass shootings for two reasons.  First, it can and might directly affect their family at some point assuming their kids attend public schools and not the usual heavily defended private schools.  And two, it impacts the issue of stricter gun ownership rules and controls.  But when it comes to most of those stats like people of color killing each other in the streets of the cities run by unqualified and ineffective mayors and other officials they could care less.  As long as their asses are safe everything is okay.  So after the obligatory "gun control" dance between the two camps with lots of moaning and groan, morning of the dead, and speeches along with some demonstrations and then its all back to "normal".