What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[ArdmoreRyno]

29 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

 

I'm OK with high power hunting gear that doesn't have a high rate of fire.

 

 

Tell me what you would do if you were to hypothetically ban something.  You know more than I on this topic you'll have a more informed idea.  Assume your hand is forced.

 

I need to get it out of the way saying, it would never be possible IMO. 

 

That said... are we talking "ban" as in you can no longer own one (not grandfathered... call it "total ban") or you can't buy/sell/give one after X date? 

 

Total ban: You'd have to tell people to turn their rifle in for X amount of money by a certain date. If you don't, you are now a felon. 

Grandfathered: Would require people to register their rifle with the ATF and no more could be bought, sold or given to someone. 

 

Most LEO in the nation would never go door-to-door to demand confiscation of their rifle. They would likely ignore the federal government to go grab them. Right now, hundreds of sheriff dept's across the country have come out to say they will not comply with the ATF new "pistol brace" rule. I'd imagine if federal LEO tried to go door-to-door, you'd have chaos and the loss of life would be huge. There are people would would fight back and believe it's Civil War II. 

 

This then all goes back to the fact, no criminal will care. They will keep doing illegal crap on the street with their illegal gun... just like they are doing today. That's what all of us legal gun owners continue to scream... it only harms those who follow the law to a "T". 

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I need to get it out of the way saying, it would never be possible IMO. 

 

That said... are we talking "ban" as in you can no longer own one (not grandfathered... call it "total ban") or you can't buy/sell/give one after X date? 

 

Total ban: You'd have to tell people to turn their rifle in for X amount of money by a certain date. If you don't, you are now a felon. 

Grandfathered: Would require people to register their rifle with the ATF and no more could be bought, sold or given to someone. 

 

Most LEO in the nation would never go door-to-door to demand confiscation of their rifle. They would likely ignore the federal government to go grab them. Right now, hundreds of sheriff dept's across the country have come out to say they will not comply with the ATF new "pistol brace" rule. I'd imagine if federal LEO tried to go door-to-door, you'd have chaos and the loss of life would be huge. There are people would would fight back and believe it's Civil War II. 

 

This then all goes back to the fact, no criminal will care. They will keep doing illegal crap on the street with their illegal gun... just like they are doing today. That's what all of us legal gun owners continue to scream... it only harms those who follow the law to a "T". 

Grandfathered is the only way I think.  Then there needs to be a heavy crackdown on illegal guns.  A real one.  

 

Sitting on our hands does nothing.  These could increase for all we know.  If these nuts somehow band together online it could easily get worse.  I get law abiding citizens will be inconvenienced.  It's a small price to pay.

 

Mental health comments are lip service.   

[Andy1]

So why are short barrel shotguns (without ATF permit) and automatic firearms illegal?

Edited April 12, 2023 by Andy1

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I need to get it out of the way saying, it would never be possible IMO. 

 

That said... are we talking "ban" as in you can no longer own one (not grandfathered... call it "total ban") or you can't buy/sell/give one after X date? 

 

Total ban: You'd have to tell people to turn their rifle in for X amount of money by a certain date. If you don't, you are now a felon. 

Grandfathered: Would require people to register their rifle with the ATF and no more could be bought, sold or given to someone. 

 

Most LEO in the nation would never go door-to-door to demand confiscation of their rifle. They would likely ignore the federal government to go grab them. Right now, hundreds of sheriff dept's across the country have come out to say they will not comply with the ATF new "pistol brace" rule. I'd imagine if federal LEO tried to go door-to-door, you'd have chaos and the loss of life would be huge. There are people would would fight back and believe it's Civil War II. 

 

This then all goes back to the fact, no criminal will care. They will keep doing illegal crap on the street with their illegal gun... just like they are doing today. That's what all of us legal gun owners continue to scream... it only harms those who follow the law to a "T". 

 

Door to door would be stupid. Hypothetically the best way to do a total ban would be to shut down the ammo and gun makers and sellers, shut down the ranges and websites for all of it. Then you have people with paperweights if they can't find ammo for them. You couldn't shoot them in public or anywhere so they just sit in the house.  

 

If you want to really go after the problem. Declare all organzied criminals terrorists and just lock them up right away like El Salvador is doing.  Apparently their crime rate has nose dived since they went around putting all those guys in jail.  ***** their civil rights just lock them up. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

19 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

So why are short barrel shotguns (without ATF permit) and automatic firearms illegal?

Congress made it a federal law. NFA was passed in 1934. Made it illegal to own several weapon types without a $200 approved tax stamp. 
 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

6 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Leave it to the experts like covid......how did that end up working out? I don't want to do that again.

I vehemently believe you're doing it from the wrong perspective .  Considering it was a one in a lifetime event we all should not be surprised had it came out much worse.   What made it worse were the amount of people pushing things they hoped would work as fact.  When most was bs.  A lot of people got upset at extra precautions as if their liberty was jeopardized

[Roundybout]

3 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

^^THIS^^ is the correct answer. That's the reason people want it banned. They wouldn't care about this because it's got wood furniture instead of scary black furniture. 

 

 

Can this gun put out 30 rounds/minute or whatever an AR-15 can do?

[Orlando Buffalo]

23 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I vehemently believe you're doing it from the wrong perspective .  Considering it was a one in a lifetime event we all should not be surprised had it came out much worse.   What made it worse were the amount of people pushing things they hoped would work as fact.  When most was bs.  A lot of people got upset at extra precautions as if their liberty was jeopardized

I think your not bright enough to see it from the proper perspective. We made Fauci into a living saint when he knew the virus came from the lab because we paid for the research. He knew the risks and the fact that it was less deadly to younger people  but refused to push to reopen society. Everyone who shut down their schools for two years damaged their children in a terrible way, and restricting my travel did take away from freedoms, thankfully i Iive in FL where most of my freedoms were reinstated quickly.

[SectionC3]

22 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

I think your not bright enough to see it from the proper perspective. We made Fauci into a living saint when he knew the virus came from the lab because we paid for the research. He knew the risks and the fact that it was less deadly to younger people  but refused to push to reopen society. Everyone who shut down their schools for two years damaged their children in a terrible way, and restricting my travel did take away from freedoms, thankfully i Iive in FL where most of my freedoms were reinstated quickly.

Hoax. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Hoax. 

I missed having your child like wit around here, it is good to have you back!

[Andy1]

Here is the position statement from the International Association of Chiefs of Police: 

 

Criminal Use of Semi-Automatic Assault Weapons
First passed in 1994, the assault weapons ban required domestic gun manufacturers to stop production of semi-automatic assault weapons and ammunition magazines holding more than ten rounds except for military or police use. While the ban was in place, it was remarkably effective in reducing the number of crimes involving assault weapons. In the period of the ban, (1994-2004) the proportion of assault weapons traced to crimes fell by a dramatic 66 percent.
Semi-Automatic assault weapons are routinely the weapons of choice for gang members and drug dealers. They are regularly encountered in drug busts and are all too often used against police officers.

 

The IACP has been a strong supporter of the assault weapons ban since 1992, and our membership has approved several reauthorizations of support in the years since. The membership took this action because we, as law enforcement executives, understand that the criminal use of semiautomatic assault weapons pose a grave risk to our officers and the communities they are sworn to protect.
 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

Can this gun put out 30 rounds/minute or whatever an AR-15 can do?

Every semi-auto can. Colt 1911, Glock 17, Ruger 10-22, etc. As fast as you can pull the trigger. 

1 hour ago, Andy1 said:

Here is the position statement from the International Association of Chiefs of Police: 

 

Criminal Use of Semi-Automatic Assault Weapons
First passed in 1994, the assault weapons ban required domestic gun manufacturers to stop production of semi-automatic assault weapons and ammunition magazines holding more than ten rounds except for military or police use. While the ban was in place, it was remarkably effective in reducing the number of crimes involving assault weapons. In the period of the ban, (1994-2004) the proportion of assault weapons traced to crimes fell by a dramatic 66 percent.
Semi-Automatic assault weapons are routinely the weapons of choice for gang members and drug dealers. They are regularly encountered in drug busts and are all too often used against police officers.

 

The IACP has been a strong supporter of the assault weapons ban since 1992, and our membership has approved several reauthorizations of support in the years since. The membership took this action because we, as law enforcement executives, understand that the criminal use of semiautomatic assault weapons pose a grave risk to our officers and the communities they are sworn to protect.
 

The ban only changed the “looks” of the AR. It didn’t change how it functioned or the lethality. So the drop is purely coincidental.
 

A 5.56/.223 and firing rate didn’t change with the ban. They removed dumb things like the bayonet lug, the muzzle device, removed adding a “grenade launcher” (LOL!), collapsible stock, etc. 

[Andy1]

I haven’t seen any stats on this but the mass killings we see in the news usually seem to describe the killer as legally buying the gun used in the crime. These people are not career criminals. They seem to be “seemingly normal” people who are experiencing emotional distress or depression and want a gun as the final solution. They don’t have connections with the criminal world to buy illegal guns so they just go to the local gun shop. I don’t think that “criminals will just get a gun someplace else” applies to these people. Shortly after buying the gun, they go on their killing spree. 
 

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and their guns are not used in crime. To stop the killings described above, we need to build time delay and social interactions with people into the process of purchasing the assault weapon. Time delays will allow people’s emotions to calm and give them a chance to seek help. Social interactions with others allow more people to know who is buying the gun and perhaps see the warning signs before the killing happens. I don’t think the solution is banning assault weapons but in making it a much slower more deliberate purchase process. Yes this will be a PITA for good responsible people but that may be the price to pay to acquire them in the future. 

OK, flame away at me. I’ve got my body armor on. What are your ideas? 

[L Ron Burgundy]

7 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

I think your not bright enough to see it from the proper perspective. We made Fauci into a living saint when he knew the virus came from the lab because we paid for the research. He knew the risks and the fact that it was less deadly to younger people  but refused to push to reopen society. Everyone who shut down their schools for two years damaged their children in a terrible way, and restricting my travel did take away from freedoms, thankfully i Iive in FL where most of my freedoms were reinstated quickly.

Lol.  Everything you so say is so ultra exaggerated it's literally funny.   Yes kids are terribly damaged!!!   Fauci is a living Saint.  Do you listen  to yourself?  A once in a lifetime event knuckledragger.  And you're all upset they took a too safe approach.  It's all so very whiny.  

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

2 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Lol.  Everything you so say is so ultra exaggerated it's literally funny.   Yes kids are terribly damaged!!!   Fauci is a living Saint.  Do you listen  to yourself?  A once in a lifetime event knuckledragger.  And you're all upset they took a too safe approach.  It's all so very whiny.  

You are literally whining in this post. If you believe that the government and experts were truthful and did a good job with covid, that's your opinion. As time goes on, it seems they were way off base, or purposely misleading the public.

[Orlando Buffalo]

3 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Lol.  Everything you so say is so ultra exaggerated it's literally funny.   Yes kids are terribly damaged!!!   Fauci is a living Saint.  Do you listen  to yourself?  A once in a lifetime event knuckledragger.  And you're all upset they took a too safe approach.  It's all so very whiny.  

Do you not think the kids are truly damaged? 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

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[ArdmoreRyno]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:51 PM, Andy1 said:

Time delays will allow people’s emotions to calm and give them a chance to seek help. Social interactions with others allow more people to know who is buying the gun and perhaps see the warning signs before the killing happens. I don’t think the solution is banning assault weapons but in making it a much slower more deliberate purchase process. 

 

 

 

Some states already have a 'wait period'. Here's my counter argument to the time delay deal: 

 

I have two girls... both adults. If either of them are in an abusive relationship (that I don't know about because then this theoretical scenario is moot") and fear that their partner will hurt them, kill them, etc. and want to buy a gun to protect themselves... I don't want them to have to wait 3 days, 10 days, etc. I want them to be allowed to go in and take home their firearm THAT DAY after their NICS check comes back. There has been times in states with delays, someone is killed by their partner before the were able to get their handgun/shotgun/rifle. 

 

In 2022, 55,000 firearms were bought legally last year PER DAY. There were around 60 'mass shootings' in total in that time-frame. 20,000,000 purchases in a year to 60 shootings. 

 

18 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

.

 

Dude who in going to be on trial for attempted murder, released w/o bail... shoots 3 people with a handgun... so let's ban the AR-15. 

 

That's NYC for ya. The New York City DA helped add another "mass shooting" to the media/liberal narrative.

[Orlando Buffalo]

This article is unrelated to guns but this is how effective any law passed for gun control would be. The government, to protect people with a sesame allergy, made it easier to just put sesame in the product than remove it. So now all these products that used to be sesame free have it intentionally added just to deal with a bad law. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/04/11/sesame-allergy-law-consequences/?=undefined

[Wacka]

On 4/12/2023 at 9:46 PM, ArdmoreRyno said:

Every semi-auto can. Colt 1911, Glock 17, Ruger 10-22, etc. As fast as you can pull the trigger. 

The ban only changed the “looks” of the AR. It didn’t change how it functioned or the lethality. So the drop is purely coincidental.
 

A 5.56/.223 and firing rate didn’t change with the ban. They removed dumb things like the bayonet lug, the muzzle device, removed adding a “grenade launcher” (LOL!), collapsible stock, etc. 

Did they take out the compass in the stock?😅

Edited April 14, 2023 by Wacka