EmotionallyUnstable Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 RB: FB: Bryce Brown Frank Summers Fred Jackson Evan Rodriguez CJ Spiller Anthony Dixon Ronnie Wingo With seven current 'running backs' on our roster, we have a very crowded backfield. The talent here is undeniable. I'm curious as to see how this shakes out during camp. I don't believe we'll keep a fullback. As much as I liked Frank the Tank, I don't see his value. He was a situation offensive player and a replaceable special teamer. With the addition of Anthony Dixon, I believe there is no need for a fullback. Ronnie Wingo will be the odd many out, leaving four running backs left on our final roster. I cannot see a scenario in which we have less than that. Though this is a very discussed topic, I'm curious as to how the camp reps, preseason snaps and ultimately, the work load in season, will be split. Shot in the dark: In alignment with our current offensive scheme, Bryce Brown is (or will prove to be) a more complete running back Rationale: Durability - Brown has the size and skill set to be a tackle-to-tackle, 20 touch RB. It's been shown Spiller is not. Size: - Brown outweighs spiller by 20 lbs Speed - Spiller is FAST! 4.27 40 at the combine. However, Brown is no slug. 4.47 at his Pro day. ESPN's Mike Rodak agrees - Three years ago, on the heels on Spiller's breakout season, I'd be a dead man for mentioning the idea. However, its important to remember how different our offensive scheme, surrounding talent and staff are. I'm curious as to what you all believe will happen. How will the camp duties shake out? Out of 30 running plays, who takes the brunt of the load? Bored or a Saturday, Go Bills. link : http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/7670/bryce-brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You're probably right on Summers. Dixon should be able to play that role when needed and adds more versatility. What I like about the top 4 is the depth for November and December. It seems every year by that time of the year Spiller and FJ are playing hurt. Now, we just plug in round 2 with Dixon and Brown. Each player may not have a 1000 yards, but combined I expect us to be the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. It will keep our defense rested so better than last year, and make it easier on EJ to be productive. It will be nice to send in Dixon on 3rd and 2 against the Pats and get the 1st, taking the heart out of their defense. I can't wait to see Richardson and Wood knock Wilfork on his ass. This new line should open lots of holes for the RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I was almost anticipating CJ getting traded during the draft. I don't know if he's out of favor, or they don't understand how to use him properly. Just my opinion. The skill positions have almost undergone a complete makeover from the previous regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Some salient thoughts here. I happen to disagree with them, which does not by any means invalidate them. I don't see CJ being moved or displaced, but rather see the depth at RB as an even stronger indicator that Marrone and Hackett want a power running game. More backs means more time to rest and more fresh bodies with which to pound defenses. I also have a hard time seeing the team not keeping a true FB. I don't think they want to subject key future cogs like Dixon or Brown to the type of play-to-play punishment that the FB role entails, and be not mistaken: those two are in line for serious carries next year at the latest. Just my 1 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The thing which will determine who gets the bulk of the plays or even who leads the team in running yds, but actually, my expectation is that CJ and Jax will remain #1 and 1A. Brown will see the bulk of the time because he actually has the most to learn about being a Bill and most important CJ and Jax are gonna be saved for real games. It seems a near certainty that either CJ or Jax is gonna get slowed by the not atypical nick during regular play and at that point (it is to be hoped it never happens) then Brown really plays. My guess is that we a lot of Brown actually as he has the most to learn about the Bills O. CJ and Jax will see some time but probably not as much as Brown, however, because CJ and Jax are likely to be coddled Brown gets the bulk of the work but sits when the #1 and #@ are named. The fight for the remaining (possibly 2 but unlikely) is actually gonna best play or Summers adding red zone versatility and not running yardage at all. ST play and blitz pick-up ability will say a lot more about who stays after the 1st 3 than their time running the ball. Just like 3 or so years ago when someone whose name I forget was a UDFA who led the team in pre-season rushing yds, but much to the surprise of many of us outside observers, he got cut. Who gets the bulk of the running plays may be an indicator that player gets cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Joique Bell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) I was almost anticipating CJ getting traded during the draft. I don't know if he's out of favor, or they don't understand how to use him properly. Just my opinion. Nah, they want to use him. I think we will see lots of Spiller and FJ on field simultaneously. They can do this now that they have a horse in the barn in Brown. Last year they needed to keep one fresh and plus had to contend with CJs high ankle sprain. Those are a biatch. Edited July 12, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Brown is not close to CJ speed wise . The difference between 4.27 and 4.47 in the NFL is light years. I expect CJ to return to the runner he was 2 years ago. I can also see where Brown would have an advantage at the point of attack. I'm looking forward to watching them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Having a really deep backfield is critical in Hackett's fast-paced offensive scheme. I think the season will start with CJ and FJ as starters. But, Hackett has made no secret of his desire to run as many plays as he can. He wants to get as many hands on the ball as possible, so I suspect that Brown, and Dixon will have ample opportunity to move up the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemedic Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The thing which will determine who gets the bulk of the plays or even who leads the team in running yds, but actually, my expectation is that CJ and Jax will remain #1 and 1A. Brown will see the bulk of the time because he actually has the most to learn about being a Bill and most important CJ and Jax are gonna be saved for real games. It seems a near certainty that either CJ or Jax is gonna get slowed by the not atypical nick during regular play and at that point (it is to be hoped it never happens) then Brown really plays. My guess is that we a lot of Brown actually as he has the most to learn about the Bills O. CJ and Jax will see some time but probably not as much as Brown, however, because CJ and Jax are likely to be coddled Brown gets the bulk of the work but sits when the #1 and #@ are named. The fight for the remaining (possibly 2 but unlikely) is actually gonna best play or Summers adding red zone versatility and not running yardage at all. ST play and blitz pick-up ability will say a lot more about who stays after the 1st 3 than their time running the ball. Just like 3 or so years ago when someone whose name I forget was a UDFA who led the team in pre-season rushing yds, but much to the surprise of many of us outside observers, he got cut. Who gets the bulk of the running plays may be an indicator that player gets cut. Joique Bell. The thing which will determine who gets the bulk of the plays or even who leads the team in running yds, but actually, my expectation is that CJ and Jax will remain #1 and 1A. Brown will see the bulk of the time because he actually has the most to learn about being a Bill and most important CJ and Jax are gonna be saved for real games. It seems a near certainty that either CJ or Jax is gonna get slowed by the not atypical nick during regular play and at that point (it is to be hoped it never happens) then Brown really plays. My guess is that we a lot of Brown actually as he has the most to learn about the Bills O. CJ and Jax will see some time but probably not as much as Brown, however, because CJ and Jax are likely to be coddled Brown gets the bulk of the work but sits when the #1 and #@ are named. The fight for the remaining (possibly 2 but unlikely) is actually gonna best play or Summers adding red zone versatility and not running yardage at all. ST play and blitz pick-up ability will say a lot more about who stays after the 1st 3 than their time running the ball. Just like 3 or so years ago when someone whose name I forget was a UDFA who led the team in pre-season rushing yds, but much to the surprise of many of us outside observers, he got cut. Who gets the bulk of the running plays may be an indicator that player gets cut. Joique Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Brown is not close to CJ speed wise . The difference between 4.27 and 4.47 in the NFL is light years. I expect CJ to return to the runner he was 2 years ago. I can also see where Brown would have an advantage at the point of attack. I'm looking forward to watching them both. exactly. Brown is the eventual replacement for Fred. Not CJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I love they are moving more to a power run team. Just look at the lineman. That tells you a lot. The Jets can stop the run well, but both of their QB's are very suspect. Look at Vick's record the last couple of years. He's not who he was before prison. I cannot believe Geno will improve as much as I suspect EJ will do. Tannehill has not improved with holding the ball too long, so we're left with Tom terrific. We'll see if what they did in the secondary with Browner and Revis if they improved that much in stopping us. The best way to stop Marsha though is run it down their throat. Is that what Marrone is planning to beat Belicheck this year? It would be so much fun to see us keep demoralizing the Pats by 8 minute drives, and they just can't stop us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 RB's are a dime a dozen and in today's nfl they come cheap. The writing is on the wall for CJ to be leaving town and they want Bryce Brown to get a good amount of rushes this year so we can see what we have. The thing the CJ has that is hard to come by is the blazing speed. If they are looking for a workhorse to carry the rock 20-30 times a game then maybe Brown will be better served in that role. But as someone you can be creative with and run screens and sweeps, Spiller is your guy. They just aren't using him right. Chan knew how. Maybe they need to go back and study that film to see how to get better production out of CJ before they try and replace him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 This sounds like a Bill Parcells thread- whoever cooks the meal should buy the groceries. We have a lot of "groceries" in the backfield; it's up to Hackett to figure out how to cook the meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 exactly. Brown is the eventual replacement for Fred. Not CJ. Yup. Looking forward to seeing what he can do. If he's half as productive at FredX, it's a great pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 TE situation tells me we keep more RBs and FBs on the team. Evan and Ronnie go...rest stay. Pin it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Anyone care to gander a breakdown of carries per game? Say 30 rushes. CJ -13 Fred - 9 Brown- 8 Brown is not close to CJ speed wise . The difference between 4.27 and 4.47 in the NFL is light years. I expect CJ to return to the runner he was 2 years ago. I can also see where Brown would have an advantage at the point of attack. I'm looking forward to watching them both. I don't believe speed is the ultimate factor in deciding your #1 back. Look across the league you'll see a variety of backs running different times. AP-4.4 Marshawn-4.4 McCoy-4.5 Speed is a tremendous factor, no doubt. But I'm not sure that it's something that would keep Brown from being #1 in Hackett's system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Brown is not close to CJ speed wise . The difference between 4.27 and 4.47 in the NFL is light years. I expect CJ to return to the runner he was 2 years ago. I can also see where Brown would have an advantage at the point of attack. I'm looking forward to watching them both. Straight line 40 speed and football with pads speed are two different things... I think the gap is closer than those times indicate- but CJ is clearly faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Straight line 40 speed and football with pads speed are two different things... I think the gap is closer than those times indicate- but CJ is clearly faster Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 McCoy must've been hurt or something because 4.5 40 is in no way indicative of his speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Brown is not close to CJ speed wise . The difference between 4.27 and 4.47 in the NFL is light years. I expect CJ to return to the runner he was 2 years ago. I can also see where Brown would have an advantage at the point of attack. I'm looking forward to watching them both. Light years is a measure of distance. The difference is 0.86 mph average speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Just found out Bryce a brown was in town (Wichita) yesterday holding a youth football camp with his brother Arthur of the Ravens. http://www.kansas.com/2014/07/12/3550706/arthur-bryce-brown-play-host-to.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 did Brown sign a new contract? If not 3 of the 4 RBs are in the final year of their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 did Brown sign a new contract? If not 3 of the 4 RBs are in the final year of their contracts. Brown is still on his rookie deal, which runs through 2015: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/bryce-brown/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 RB's are a dime a dozen and in today's nfl they come cheap. The writing is on the wall for CJ to be leaving town and they want Bryce Brown to get a good amount of rushes this year so we can see what we have. The thing the CJ has that is hard to come by is the blazing speed. If they are looking for a workhorse to carry the rock 20-30 times a game then maybe Brown will be better served in that role. But as someone you can be creative with and run screens and sweeps, Spiller is your guy. They just aren't using him right. Chan knew how. Maybe they need to go back and study that film to see how to get better production out of CJ before they try and replace him I wouldn't read too much into it. My reasoning for the addition of Brown was the Bills needed it mainly for depth. NFL players simply do not practice enough to avoid injuries and this really effects RBs durability IMO. They don't build up the NFL game condition body "armor" anymore. All three will get a lot of carries because it's almost expected that Spiller and Jackson will be dinged up at some point during the season. Like Manuel, in the not so distant future, CJ will either take the reigns or the Bills will move on from him. You're right though, RB's are a dime a dozen. Basically, you're either a top 5 RB star or you're very interchangeable. There's not a lot of in-between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Straight line 40 speed and football with pads speed are two different things... I think the gap is closer than those times indicate- but CJ is clearly faster There's a difference in style also. CJ relies on his speed, and that's great. I'm not familiar enough with Brown to know what kind of running back he is, but many running backs rely less on speed and more on agility. FJ, for example, has the ability to power through people, and if you look at some of Emmet Smith's highlights-- even when he was getting older, but still productive-- he was like a human pinball. I wouldn't read too much into it. My reasoning for the addition of Brown was the Bills needed it mainly for depth. NFL players simply do not practice enough to avoid injuries and this really effects RBs durability IMO. They don't build up the NFL game condition body "armor" anymore. All three will get a lot of carries because it's almost expected that Spiller and Jackson will be dinged up at some point during the season. Like Manuel, in the not so distant future, CJ will either take the reigns or the Bills will move on from him. You're right though, RB's are a dime a dozen. Basically, you're either a top 5 RB star or you're very interchangeable. There's not a lot of in-between. I think also that Hackett's fast-paced scheme requires depth at skill positions. If, as most suspect, we start the season with four good RBs, I believe we will see all four of them getting plenty of carries. Edited July 13, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Brown is still on his rookie deal, which runs through 2015: http://www.spotrac.c...ls/bryce-brown/ Cool, so next year we still have some RBs if CJ and Fred dont resign.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 There's a difference in style also. CJ relies on his speed, and that's great. I'm not familiar enough with Brown to know what kind of running back he is, but many running backs rely less on speed and more on agility. FJ, for example, has the ability to power through people, and if you look at some of Emmet Smith's highlights-- even when he was getting older, but still productive-- he was like a human pinball. I think also that Hackett's fast-paced scheme requires depth at skill positions. If, as most suspect, we start the season with four good RBs, I believe we will see all four of them getting plenty of carries. Brown has speed to burn, but also can hit it up inside if need be... From what I have seen if him he is almost like the halfway point between CJ's game and FredEx's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If CJ isn't traded during camp, Freddie will be the surprise cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Brown has speed to burn, but also can hit it up inside if need be... From what I have seen if him he is almost like the halfway point between CJ's game and FredEx's... Someone, somewhere on this forum (I think it might have been the author of this thread), posited the idea that in this league which has become utterly pass-happy, and has diminished the value of the run game, and running backs in general, we may be contradicting that trend and building a team with a ground game that may be absolutely deadly. I've been thinking about this myself, and it's an exciting concept. Having four decidedly productive running backs that could stay fresh into the fourth quarter sounds like a lot of fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Someone, somewhere on this forum (I think it might have been the author of this thread), posited the idea that in this league which has become utterly pass-happy, and has diminished the value of the run game, and running backs in general, we may be contradicting that trend and building a team with a ground game that may be absolutely deadly. I've been thinking about this myself, and it's an exciting concept. Having four decidedly productive running backs that could stay fresh into the fourth quarter sounds like a lot of fun to watch. Essentially it's old school football... Except with the twist of a committee vs a single workhorse... If the league wants to devalue the RB position- I think it's great to capitalize!!! Let's get a deep stable, strong OL, capable WR's, and a young QB with upside (he needs to realize his potential) we can control the pace of the game... Strong D too.... Too much not to love going forward!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If CJ isn't traded during camp, Freddie will be the surprise cut. Why cut any of the three? One knows that contractually you likely want to make a choice after the regular season to lay out the bucks from 2 of3. Your decision is gonna be based on unknowns like who gets slowed by injuries and in CJ and Jax's case how does Brown. There is a ton of good info you get by keeping them, and there is no contractual reason to panic and cut one right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why cut any of the three? One knows that contractually you likely want to make a choice after the regular season to lay out the bucks from 2 of3. Your decision is gonna be based on unknowns like who gets slowed by injuries and in CJ and Jax's case how does Brown. There is a ton of good info you get by keeping them, and there is no contractual reason to panic and cut one right now. I would love to see what Fred, CJ, Brown, and Dixon could accomplish in 2-3 seasons. Obviously that would require some extensions, and Fred would have to keep producing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If CJ isn't traded during camp, Freddie will be the surprise cut. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Someone, somewhere on this forum (I think it might have been the author of this thread), posited the idea that in this league which has become utterly pass-happy, and has diminished the value of the run game, and running backs in general, we may be contradicting that trend and building a team with a ground game that may be absolutely deadly. I've been thinking about this myself, and it's an exciting concept. Having four decidedly productive running backs that could stay fresh into the fourth quarter sounds like a lot of fun to watch. Ahead of the curve ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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