Security Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Umm, marijuana as medicine, hilarious. So, for people who get weed for medicine, do you just want to call all of them disabled then? You can't smoke weed (well, you can, I know people who do) legally and drive, and then go to a job. If you are prescribed pot as medicine, and you become dependent on it (National Institute on Drug Abuse says 10 percent of pt smokers are dependent on pot), then you will be come also become dependent on government, hence, the tax payers, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for people to sit home and get high. There are other medicines. Pot does not heel you, it gets you high and makes your pain go away, just temporarily. Hate to say it, but life itself, being a person, getting older, having ailments, all involve having pain, and everyone wants to just stop feeling pain, then go ahead and just kill yourself then. There are currently no accepted medical benefits of pot, other than you are high and you forget about pain, you can take aspirin for that and not be high. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana-medicine Edited July 16, 2014 by Security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Dr. security ? Holds a license to practice Medicine in a place called nowhere. Take away the pot from the epileptic kids it helps ? Take it away from the cancer patient who can't eat without a dose or two ? Cool stories bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No ****. It's been a long time for me now, but I don't remember ever once having "getting caught" be the source of my paranoia.............I've heard this argument before, though. It is beyond stupid. Agreed. The paranoia for me wasn't about getting caught. It was about not being in control should something happened that required me to react and think quickly. There are plenty of people who smoke dope and somehow they function better. But the idea that the paranoia comes from getting caught is as stupid as the constant drumbeat of "I'd rather be driving next to a stoned person instead of a drunk person." It's like saying "I'd rather screw an ugly chick instead of a fat one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Dr. security ? Holds a license to practice Medicine in a place called nowhere. Take away the pot from the epileptic kids it helps ? Take it away from the cancer patient who can't eat without a dose or two ? Cool stories bro. Here come the red hair rings from Ryan again. Dude, your guilt shines brightly in all of these posts. Either let go of the guilt or stop smoking, but please refrain from trying to convince normal people that pot is like totally cool you know, because normal people have synapses firing at a higherr rate than stoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Security: I don't even know where to start. There is so much wrong in your post. You seem to be willfully ignorant. Did you look at the article from the link that you just provided? If you did you would notice they mention many of the same medical benefits I mentioned earlier. Somehow you didn't absorb those from the article. Think about this for just a moment before you begin typing. If the cannabinoids can be helpful when extracted from cannabis might they also be effective while still a part of the cannabis? Addiction to cannabis can happen. Technically there are withdrawal symptoms upon quitting, a main criteria when defining addiction. Compared to many prescription drugs however, the withdrawal symptoms experienced when quitting are very, very mild. They are probably equivalent to giving up, say coffee. Do some research on kicking opiate based medicines or alcohol. People have died kicking those. Again take a second to consider that people are driving all around you while on their prescription medicines. Many of these people are technically addicted to very powerful medicines with side effects that often include drowsiness, blurred vision, dizziness, and impaired muscle coordination. Almost all medicines take a little getting used to, especially opiate medicines. Cannabis medicines are no different. Once a person has experienced the effects they can usually adapt and drive. If no one could drive while on medication in this country the roads would be pretty empty. It is unfortunate that you are unable to put yourself in another man's shoes, so to speak, and understand what constant high level pain can do to a person's life. I hope you are able to grin and bear it if and when it happens to you. Everyone has aches and pains as we age but some medical conditions can cause crippling pain. After a period of time of high level pain that generally prevents sleep, people will turn to medication. Few want to be dependent on pain medication but they cannot really interact with family and friends and after a time, the choices become pretty grim. The problem with the other powerful pain medicines is that they cause serious side-effects for many. The side effects from long term use of the cannabis medicines are much easier to withstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Medical Cannabis has been legal in Michigan for several years. It can be a very effective medicine which has few side effects when compared to many prescription medicines. Anyone taking medication long term knows that you have to be able to tolerate the side effects of the medication in order for it to help. See the website from GW Pharmaceuticals http://www.gwpharm.com and go the 'R&D' tab at the top. See the 'Product Pipeline' and the 'Therapeutic Areas' sections on the left. You very well may be amazed at the medical possibilities. By the way, this company's stock, GWPH on the Nasdaq, is up about 10 fold in the past year or so. Those are real dollars betting on the potential medicines to be extracted from the cannabis plant. If nothing else, please take the time to scan just the table of contents from this 2006 research report on the therapeutic possibilities of cannabinoids. It may be information that would allow you to help a sick friend or relative, or possibly even yourself. http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html Mentioned among many other maladies are diabetes, Parkinsons, arthritis, cancer, Alzheimers, asthma, IBS, hypertension, and psychiatric illness. This report is from 2006 and we have learned a lot since then. More research is desperately needed but it appears very promising that cannabis may be able to treat many illnesses. It makes some sense that many diseases that have confounded researchers over the past 75 years are linked to cannabinoids. Due to governments' prohibition of cannabis, research on the plant and cannabinoids have basically been forbidden for those same 75 years. Thanks for the links, sounds like a company that is doing good research and the review paper looks interesting so I will dig through later. A couple perspective things I wanted to offer. All compounds have side effects, whether man-made or natural. Pharmaceutical products have at least been rigorously studied with their doses and side effects quantified. GWpharm has an interesting paragraph: Of the cannabinoids listed above, only two cannabinoids have to date been well characterized – THC and CBD. Both THC and CBD have important pharmacology: THC has analgesic, anti-spasmodic, anti-tremor, anti-inflammatory, appetite stimulant and anti-emetic properties, whilst CBD has anti-inflammatory, anti-convulsant, anti-psychotic, anti-oxidant, neuroprotective and immunomodulatory effects. CBD is not intoxicating and indeed it has been postulated that the presence of CBD in cannabis may alleviate some of the potentially unwanted side-effects of THC. There is currently limited scientific information on the pharmacology and toxicology of the other cannabinoids. Cannabinoids are believed to be effective in suppressing muscle spasticity, spasms, bladder dysfunction and pain symptoms of MS. This is IMO the great thing about what pharmaceutical science will do. They are isolating all the possible products from cannabis, will study, quantify and develop what products they can with effective doses, therapeutic windows, and side effects. Each product will be of consistent dose and quantity. In the near future, recreational users' argument that smoking marijuana has medical value will be rendered moot by the facts that dosage is too variable and side effects are probably higher than proper medical care and prescription. Plus, assuming the current legalization trend results in increased use, this will make smoking side effects more apparent and better quantified. At some point I expect there will be a healthy discussion on making marijuana smoking illegal again. As far as the review paper and all the possible therapeutic uses of cannabis products, I would only say that it reminds me of the stem cell discussion back in the 2000 election. Some or many of these targets will not pan out. On a side note, after the democrats made such a stink about funding embryonic stem cell research, isn't induced (adult) pluripotent stem cell research fascinating? If Bush had not taken the high profile moral stand against embryonic research, I wonder if science would have put the needed effort to develop alternative technologies like iPS? Edited July 16, 2014 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Here come the red hair rings from Ryan again. Dude, your guilt shines brightly in all of these posts. Either let go of the guilt or stop smoking, but please refrain from trying to convince normal people that pot is like totally cool you know, because normal people have synapses firing at a higherr rate than stoners. Have zero guilt for anything. Sorry the pot overpowered you as a youth and you live in fear of a plant. Nice try schmuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ahhhh, that is better. It is so nice to encounter a reasoned reply, Gary. Thank you. The only problem that I see with isolating the compounds is that the cannabinoids often seem to work better in concert, referred to as the 'entourage effect'. So while THC seems to help with nausea, most patients will prefer the effects of the whole plant (smoking, vaping, or otherwise ingesting the plant material) or a whole plant extract over pure THC found in Marinol. Our society made the mistake once before of isolating and synthesizing a compond from the plant - THC. They made Marinol and the anti cannabis folks said, 'there, if you need a cannabis medicine you have marinol. End of story". Well, now that research is picking up 20 years later, we are learning that many of these cannabinoids have potential benefits. If we allow the anti's to do the same thing with CBD, as is today being attempted in many conservative state legislatures, we may very well stifle cannabis research for another decade. The comparison to stem cells is a good one. I have to say though as I look down the Table of Contents from that research report mentioned above, researchers for pretty much all of those ailments still seem to be pursuing cannabis possibilities. nih.gov The site has a search box where one can enter multiple terms such as cannabinoid, 2014, etc. Be aware that there are conflicting studies. Also, as Sanjay Gupta of CNN has mentioned, until recently many US studies have been approved only if they were intended to show the harmful effects of using cannabis. Look for more recent studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Security: I don't even know where to start. There is so much wrong in your post. You seem to be willfully ignorant. Did you look at the article from the link that you just provided? If you did you would notice they mention many of the same medical benefits I mentioned earlier. Somehow you didn't absorb those from the article. Think about this for just a moment before you begin typing. If the cannabinoids can be helpful when extracted from cannabis might they also be effective while still a part of the cannabis? Addiction to cannabis can happen. Technically there are withdrawal symptoms upon quitting, a main criteria when defining addiction. Compared to many prescription drugs however, the withdrawal symptoms experienced when quitting are very, very mild. They are probably equivalent to giving up, say coffee. Do some research on kicking opiate based medicines or alcohol. People have died kicking those. Again take a second to consider that people are driving all around you while on their prescription medicines. Many of these people are technically addicted to very powerful medicines with side effects that often include drowsiness, blurred vision, dizziness, and impaired muscle coordination. Almost all medicines take a little getting used to, especially opiate medicines. Cannabis medicines are no different. Once a person has experienced the effects they can usually adapt and drive. If no one could drive while on medication in this country the roads would be pretty empty. It is unfortunate that you are unable to put yourself in another man's shoes, so to speak, and understand what constant high level pain can do to a person's life. I hope you are able to grin and bear it if and when it happens to you. Everyone has aches and pains as we age but some medical conditions can cause crippling pain. After a period of time of high level pain that generally prevents sleep, people will turn to medication. Few want to be dependent on pain medication but they cannot really interact with family and friends and after a time, the choices become pretty grim. The problem with the other powerful pain medicines is that they cause serious side-effects for many. The side effects from long term use of the cannabis medicines are much easier to withstand. It also said they are trying to take out the "high". The pot that people are speaking of here to use as medicine is way different, don't be intellectually dishonest. It is absolutely fine to use pot as medicine, but the dishonesty is astounding. I fully comprehended the article. Dude, I can put myself in someone else's shoes, my wife has MS. Pot helps her, but it also makes her high, and incapable of doing her job (which should could do, just in some different fashion, but ONLY IF NOT HIGH) The pot SMOKING community just wants to get high, they use the medicinal attributes as a way to legitimize getting high Edited July 16, 2014 by Security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Has your wife tried any cannabis topicals? Some can find relief by just rubbing in cannabis infused topical oils - coconut or olive oil for instance. They can provide near instant relief from muscle spasms for some. There are many recipes and how-to videos online. Also, assuming that marijuana refers to one medicine is a wide misconception. There are probably 1000 identified and recently bred strains of cannabis. Some may be 24% THC and 1% CBD along with varying percentages of the less studied cannabinoids. Some may be 50-50 and some may contain predominantly CBD with very little THC. In non-medical cannabis states it is difficult to find a consistant supply of any strain. That is certainly problematic but if you know anyone growing, I am certain you could work something out as far as uninterrupted supply of medicine. Do some more research and you likely could find a strain 'designed' for MS sufferers. Also, I have read of patients taking powerful cannabis concentrates at bedtime that can continue to be effective throughout the day without the fogginess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Has your wife tried any cannabis topicals? Some can find relief by just rubbing in cannabis infused topical oils - coconut or olive oil for instance. They can provide near instant relief from muscle spasms for some. There are many recipes and how-to videos online. Also, assuming that marijuana refers to one medicine is a wide misconception. There are probably 1000 identified and recently bred strains of cannabis. Some may be 24% THC and 1% CBD along with varying percentages of the less studied cannabinoids. Some may be 50-50 and some may contain predominantly CBD with very little THC. In non-medical cannabis states it is difficult to find a consistant supply of any strain. That is certainly problematic but if you know anyone growing, I am certain you could work something out as far as uninterrupted supply of medicine. Do some more research and you likely could find a strain 'designed' for MS sufferers. Also, I have read of patients taking powerful cannabis concentrates at bedtime that can continue to be effective throughout the day without the fogginess. I need to do more research then. Georgia does not allow medical marijuana though, I know that. Event if it did,unless an MS supported group that would provide MS medicine would provide the topicals, it would likely be out of pocket I would think and not covered on a prescription plan either. I doubt the medical plans we have cover that. But, I do not know if they don't........I would think if they did that her doctors at the Shepard Center would push her towards that when it does become legal here (likely soon for medical). Just as long as it involves not intoxicating people. I highly doubt it Hemp will ever be actual medicine. It will only ever be a pain reliever, and I did just read about the oils, might help with burns, fungus and stuff, I highly doubt it will ever cure disease. They would have figured that out already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think the marijuana legalization is being lobbied by Big Dorito and Big Gas Station Hot Dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ahhhh, that is better. It is so nice to encounter a reasoned reply, Gary. Thank you. The only problem that I see with isolating the compounds is that the cannabinoids often seem to work better in concert, referred to as the 'entourage effect'. So while THC seems to help with nausea, most patients will prefer the effects of the whole plant (smoking, vaping, or otherwise ingesting the plant material) or a whole plant extract over pure THC found in Marinol. Our society made the mistake once before of isolating and synthesizing a compond from the plant - THC. They made Marinol and the anti cannabis folks said, 'there, if you need a cannabis medicine you have marinol. End of story". Well, now that research is picking up 20 years later, we are learning that many of these cannabinoids have potential benefits. If we allow the anti's to do the same thing with CBD, as is today being attempted in many conservative state legislatures, we may very well stifle cannabis research for another decade. The comparison to stem cells is a good one. I have to say though as I look down the Table of Contents from that research report mentioned above, researchers for pretty much all of those ailments still seem to be pursuing cannabis possibilities. nih.gov The site has a search box where one can enter multiple terms such as cannabinoid, 2014, etc. Be aware that there are conflicting studies. Also, as Sanjay Gupta of CNN has mentioned, until recently many US studies have been approved only if they were intended to show the harmful effects of using cannabis. Look for more recent studies. Bob, Happy to oblige. I understand your frustration and it's part of the reason I'm not a frequent poster. Your point about losing therapeutic effect from isolating components is an excellent one. A significant part of my background was working with small pharmas in drug discovery and I would say as a general mentality managements want the one miracle drug for a cure but it didn't take me long to realize that barring someone suffering from a specific molecular deficit (say leptin resulting in obesity -which is common in mice but not humans!) most diseases and disorders will need to be treated with a combination of compounds. Problem is, beyond breaking a mentality, no one wants to deal with the additional regulatory hurdles needed to gain approval; it's hard enough to get a single novel compound approved by the FDA! And now you have multiple sets of side effects and metabolic break down components! One way around it is to pair with an existing approved compound and that has been happening with more frequency. But I'm out of drug discovery so my current knowledge of the field is a little more spotty. But it still is worthwhile to isolate individual components from cannabis so they may be studied and quantified (elucidate pharmacology). As far as claiming better effects of marijuana over marinol, I would have to see the study design. Critical would be that the participants would never have used marijuana before and that there's an arm that first tried marinol for an appropriate time before trying marijuana. This would account for the physical and psychological addiction to marijuana. What state legislatures are trying to ban CBD and what's their justification? Sounds like it's non-addictive and non-psychoactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Umm, marijuana as medicine, hilarious. So, for people who get weed for medicine, do you just want to call all of them disabled then? You can't smoke weed (well, you can, I know people who do) legally and drive, and then go to a job. False. If you are prescribed pot as medicine, and you become dependent on it (National Institute on Drug Abuse says 10 percent of pt smokers are dependent on pot), then you will be come also become dependent on government, hence, the tax payers, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for people to sit home and get high. False, misleading, intellectually dishonest, and also ridiculous. There are other medicines. Pot does not heel you, it gets you high and makes your pain go away, just temporarily. Hate to say it, but life itself, being a person, getting older, having ailments, all involve having pain, and everyone wants to just stop feeling pain, then go ahead and just kill yourself then. So not only are you incoherent and ignorant, you're also a cold hearted bastard. Good to see the pieces add up. There are currently no accepted medical benefits of pot, other than you are high and you forget about pain, you can take aspirin for that and not be high. False. Everything you said in this post is just flat out untrue. But you believe it because you're a fool. It is unfortunate that you are unable to put yourself in another man's shoes, so to speak, and understand what constant high level pain can do to a person's life. I hope you are able to grin and bear it if and when it happens to you. Everyone has aches and pains as we age but some medical conditions can cause crippling pain. After a period of time of high level pain that generally prevents sleep, people will turn to medication. Few want to be dependent on pain medication but they cannot really interact with family and friends and after a time, the choices become pretty grim. The problem with the other powerful pain medicines is that they cause serious side-effects for many. The side effects from long term use of the cannabis medicines are much easier to withstand. Thank you for taking the time to post, you're wasting your time with Security though. He's trolling. It also said they are trying to take out the "high". The pot that people are speaking of here to use as medicine is way different, don't be intellectually dishonest. It is absolutely fine to use pot as medicine, but the dishonesty is astounding. I fully comprehended the article. False. There's NO WAY you understood that article. We all know you can barely read, let alone comprehend. Dude, I can put myself in someone else's shoes, my wife has MS. Pot helps her, but it also makes her high, and incapable of doing her job (which should could do, just in some different fashion, but ONLY IF NOT HIGH) Thoughts to your wife. It's nice that the pot helps her but apparently helps no one else, ever, according to your ignorant point of view. The pot SMOKING community just wants to get high, they use the medicinal attributes as a way to legitimize getting high You're not even a good troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 What state legislatures are trying to ban CBD and what's their justification? Sounds like it's non-addictive and non-psychoactive. I can only speak to it from a patient perspective, but the pharmacy I use has started to sell pure CBD capsules which I've found to be tremendously helpful with my own pain management. Good news is it doesn't have the psychedelic effects that THC does, bad news is it doesn't help (or seem to help) with appetite or sleep for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Umm, marijuana as medicine, hilarious. So, for people who get weed for medicine, do you just want to call all of them disabled then? You can't smoke weed (well, you can, I know people who do) legally and drive, and then go to a job. If you are prescribed pot as medicine, and you become dependent on it (National Institute on Drug Abuse says 10 percent of pt smokers are dependent on pot), then you will be come also become dependent on government, hence, the tax payers, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for people to sit home and get high. There are other medicines. Pot does not heel you, it gets you high and makes your pain go away, just temporarily. Hate to say it, but life itself, being a person, getting older, having ailments, all involve having pain, and everyone wants to just stop feeling pain, then go ahead and just kill yourself then. There are currently no accepted medical benefits of pot, other than you are high and you forget about pain, you can take aspirin for that and not be high. http://www.drugabuse...ijuana-medicine Do you know anyone you work with on pain or anti-anxiety meds? Pot does not heel you?? Seriously dude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think the marijuana legalization is being lobbied by Big Dorito and Big Gas Station Hot Dog. Oh yum! With chili and mustard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think the marijuana legalization is being lobbied by Big Dorito and Big Gas Station Hot Dog. What time is your set at the comedy store ? Want to make sure I'm late for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Do you know anyone you work with on pain or anti-anxiety meds? Pot does not heel you?? Seriously dude? Can curb pain, temporarily, That is not heeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Can curb pain, temporarily, That is not heeling. You can't be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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