Bad Vibes About A Certain Player.....

[QB Bills]

Unless he's bringing Matt Ryan with him, what does it matter if he reminds people of Julio Jones.

 

If the Bills really are going to sink or swim with Manuel, then get some oline help or just draft for the defense. Our skill position players are actually quite good compared to the rest of the league.

[26TrapDraw]

With all due respect Bill, what an awful list. McKelvin was the best PR a few years ago & since the last half of 2012, he's been a very good starting cb.

 

Spiller averages 5.1 ypc & nearly had 1,000 yards at 4.6 on a bad ankle in a "bad year."

 

Gilmore broke his wrist & would be welcome on any team in the league. He will break out this year.

 

All 3 on a better team would be appreciated & help win games. It's all about situation. For all your talk about how horrible Whitner was, he played in a SB & a NFC title game. A player's team & situation is a huge factor in their success.

 

I'm not big on Watkins because I think we need a big wr but the guy is a ball player. My choice are the 1st round Qbs (so overrated) and Taylor Lewan. I think he will be at best a decent RT & he has Incognito vibes. I don't want a decent RT at 9.

This,

 

I can remember the season opener of 13 against the chiefs at RWS where I watched CJ spiller absolutely win a ball game just about by himself. He is absolutely capable of winning a ball game by himself. It will be interesting to see how this draft shakes out. This is Whaley's first full draft where he is the man and I am curious to see his stamp on it and what it will translate to in 3 or 4 yrs.

LV

[zazie]

Johnny Football. he should jsut accept his job talking Texas football now on the pundit shows. Him and tebow are the same

[maryland-bills-fan]

Football teams are built by successfully drafting players that most fans have never hear of in the 3rd through 5th round. You put 22 players out there (actually more) on offense and defense. In 6 years you have drafted twelve players in the first two rounds. Figure it out. In a deep draft I am more interested in getting more picks in the 50-150 range than looking for magic with the first round pick. And I'll bet that I never heard of most of the mid round picks.

 

http://nflcommunications.com/2011/04/18/what-is-average-nfl-player%E2%80%99s-career-length-longer-than-you-might-think-commissioner-goodell-says/

“There is a little bit of a misrepresentation or a misunderstanding on that. Frequently, it is said that the average career is about 3.5 years. In fact, if a player makes an opening day roster, his career is very close to six years,” Commissioner Goodell said. “If you are a first-round draft choice, the average career is close to nine years. That 3.5-year average is really a misrepresentation. What it adds is a lot of players who don’t make an NFL roster and it brings down the average

[dubs]

I love Watkins, but am absolutely against trading up in the first round (esp that high) for anything other than a QB. We have lots of needs, be patient, take the best guy when your pick comes up.

 

[OldTimer1960]

I vote for OT as well, but hopefully not the 4th rated guy on the board at the 9th pick. If they find themselves in that scenario, get better value at the position on day 2.

 

I am struggling with the "nth" player at a particular position argument. Isn't it possible that the 4th rated OT is better than the 1st rated player at other positions? Particularly if you consider talent, attitude, work ethic and the importance of a position. OT (even RT) is an important position and Martin has been considered no worse than a mid first round pick by most as far back as I can remember.

 

Another poster elsewhere pointed out that Jim Kelly was the 3rd QB taken in that draft (behind Elway and Todd Blackledge). Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken (Tony Eason and Ken O'Brien ahead of him).

[Wayne Cubed]

Seattle and San Fran, arguably the two best teams in the NFL didn't have top receivers last year, save perhaps Anquan Boldin with SF. Yet both had strong running games which complemented their passing games. Both have also invested heavily in their offensive lines, which is where I'd like to see the Bills go on Thursday night.

 

I don't have a major issue with the Bills receivers at this point and wouldn't be anti-Watkins if they traded up, but they've got to get another OT. Pears is declining, Hairston is a complete unknown, and the rest are journeymen or poor prospects.

 

Not to pick on you specifically but the bold is such an overblown statement that a lot of posters like to use. The Seattle OL was one of the worst in the league last year. And surprise, surprise the weakest point in that line was the LG position, Paul McQuistan, who was a 3rd round pick by the Raiders and has been a journeyman the majority of his career. The whole right side of the the line, for last years team, were low round picks. J.R. Sweezy was a 7th round pick by Seattle and Breno Giacomini was drafted by the Packers in the 5th. Giacomini was playing for Carpenter who was suppose to Seattle's bookend right tackle, drafted in the 1st, but can't stay on the field due to injury and has since been moved to left guard, where he still can't seem to stay healthy and has been average at best. Okung and Unger are both excellent at their positions and were both high draft picks.

 

The majority of the problems for the Seattle's line came from LG, RG, RT giving up a combined 17 sacks, 15 hits and 69 hurries. With Okung and Unger combing for 5 sacks, 3 hits and 15 hurries.

 

Seattle was good and won the Super Bowl last year because of their Defense.

 

Interestingly Seattle invested heavily in a WR much like Watkins, in Percy Harvin. And while he was injured a majority of the season, he made his presence felt in the Super Bowl. He had a kickoff return for a TD and had a 30 yard run which resulted in a FG. He also had another nice 15 yard run.

 

EDIT: To add to this a bit, since Pete Carroll has arrived they've drafted a total of 4 OL. Two of them are first round picks Okung and Carpenter. Okung seems to have found his stride but Carpenter with all his injuries and poor play has been a wasted pick. The other 2 OL were Moffitt, a 2nd rd pick, who is now with Denver and Bowie, who was a 7th rd pick. If anything, Pete Carroll invested heavily in the defense. More specifically the DL (11 picks, 4 DT and 7 DE) and Secondary (8 picks).

Edited May 6, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[Bill from NYC]

If you think Gilmore, McKelvin and Spiller are negatives then I have no idea what you want. Let these guys walk and see how fast they get signed and thrive elsewhere.

If you read my post, you noticed that I said that the above players are "good." And you are correct, they WOULD be signed by other clubs.

That said, the players above consist of a #9, #10, and #11. I know that you tend to wave pom-poms for every move the Bills make under any circumstances, but players selected that high should be the foundation of a football team. The truth however is that McKelvin took 4 or 5 years to produce, Gilmore is still struggling to develop, and Spiller is a small, situational running back who now has a few miles.

If this is YOUR idea of a good foundation for an NFL team, then I am going to have to quote my man in "Office Space."

I am going to "go ahead and disagree."

Edited May 6, 2014 by Bill from NYC

[Maury Ballstein]

Let's just forget 2012 when spiller put up 1600 yards.

 

Ankle sprain = small bum cut him.

 

Leodis and Spiller both have elite athleticism. So much wrong here.

[Bill from NYC]

Let's just forget 2012 when spiller put up 1600 yards.

 

Ankle sprain = small bum cut him.

 

Leodis and Spiller both have elite athleticism. So much wrong here.

 

RLB, we are not as much at odds here as you seem to think.....

 

I continue to stress that all 3 players are "good." I am simply of the opinion that the foundation of a football team should be the QB, pass rushers, and people who can block more than the players above. I think that the need for a strong OL is accentuated a bit for the Bills due to playing a lot in the elements, and having an inexperienced quarterback.

 

This is why I would not want this particular team to give away draft choices for Watkins.

[johnwalter]

eric ebron, blake bortles, taylor lewan

 

...oh and derek carr may or may not be a serial killer

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

RLB, we are not as much at odds here as you seem to think

 

This is why I would not want this particular team to give away draft choices for Watkins.

 

Fair enough...i wouldn't mind a trade down to add more OL and pass rushers. (Not buying the Hughes or Gilmore and his cushion stock)

 

Spiller is a weapon that has to be accounted for jmo. Even as a decoy a lot of linebackers are always worried about him.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Stopped reading right here. Oh my.

No offense but that's not that outlandish. Casserly has him ahead for 1, I believe McShay &/or Kiper as well. That sentiment is out there everywhere (at the very least that he grades out right with AJ Green & Julio).

 

Unless he's bringing Matt Ryan with him, what does it matter if he reminds people of Julio Jones.

 

If the Bills really are going to sink or swim with Manuel, then get some oline help or just draft for the defense. Our skill position players are actually quite good compared to the rest of the league.

Just because our QB is a question mark doesn't mean that the best talent available shouldn't be added. It needs to be the BPA.

[JM57]

Johnny Football. he should jsut accept his job talking Texas football now on the pundit shows. Him and tebow are the same

 

That is 100% not true.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I am struggling with the "nth" player at a particular position argument. Isn't it possible that the 4th rated OT is better than the 1st rated player at other positions? Particularly if you consider talent, attitude, work ethic and the importance of a position. OT (even RT) is an important position and Martin has been considered no worse than a mid first round pick by most as far back as I can remember.

 

Another poster elsewhere pointed out that Jim Kelly was the 3rd QB taken in that draft (behind Elway and Todd Blackledge). Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken (Tony Eason and Ken O'Brien ahead of him).

...and JP Losman was the 4th QB taken in the 1st round (after giving up a 1st & 2nd). You take the highest graded player on your board.

[thewildrabbit]

Fair enough, not wanting to pay the price is different. There is certainly a solid argument that can be made on both sides of that issue. I honestly don't know what would be too high a price for me. I don't think that I would do any trades that involved next year's #1. I have my reservations about EJ but think that by the end of this draft the team will have lots of talent. A talented team with no QB is the worst; you are never bad enough to get that franchise guy. I really hope that EJ takes big steps this year or it really won't matter.

How can you think that an elite WR can make a difference on a team in which the QB clearly doesn't have enough time in the pocket to make plays. It certainly didn't work when the team brought in TO, as the QB just couldn't get him the ball. Instead of getting him another receiver, get him more protection.

 

The Bills have an elite D line, and how many games did they win? The Bills have an elite secondary in terms of high drafted players, and how many games did they win?

 

What kind of bothers me here is all the references to WR's AJ Green taken #4 or WR Julio Jones taken #6, and the Bills had a shot to draft either one of them, and chose a DT at #3 in Marcell Dareus instead. How much impact has Dareus had on winning games?

 

The Falcons gave up so many draft picks for Jones that year, five draft picks in all. Giving up their 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks in 2011, and their 1st, and 4th round pick in 2012. Good lord, the bills could have drafted him with their pick or traded back gained some extra picks and still drafted him.

 

I absolutely hate the idea of this team trading up and giving up a bunch of draft picks for one guy, simply because I don't trust them to get it right with that one player!

 

Anyway, I still have difficulty in thinking of one elite WR who turned a average QB into a great one.

[Kirby Jackson]

How can you think that an elite WR can make a difference on a team in which the QB clearly doesn't have enough time in the pocket to make plays. It certainly didn't work when the team brought in TO, as the QB just couldn't get him the ball. Instead of getting him another receiver, get him more protection.

 

The Bills have an elite D line, and how many games did they win? The Bills have an elite secondary in terms of high drafted players, and how many games did they win?

 

What kind of bothers me here is all the references to WR's AJ Green taken #4 or WR Julio Jones taken #6, and the Bills had a shot to draft either one of them, and chose a DT at #3 in Marcell Dareus instead. How much impact has Dareus had on winning games?

 

The Falcons gave up so many draft picks for Jones that year, five draft picks in all. Giving up their 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks in 2011, and their 1st, and 4th round pick in 2012. Good lord, the bills could have drafted him with their pick or traded back gained some extra picks and still drafted him.

 

I absolutely hate the idea of this team trading up and giving up a bunch of draft picks for one guy, simply because I don't trust them to get it right with that one player!

 

Anyway, I still have difficulty in thinking of one elite WR who turned a average QB into a great one.

I don't necessarily disagree at all. I am hoping that guy elevates the team like AJ Green or Julio did. Dalton still stinks but his team has been much better. I am not so much worried about elevating EJ as I am elevating the Bills.

[OldTimer1960]

...and JP Losman was the 4th QB taken in the 1st round (after giving up a 1st & 2nd). You take the highest graded player on your board.

 

I think we are in agreement on this point. I was simply saying that it might be possible that the 4th OT is still BPA on Bills' board when pick 9 comes.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I think we are in agreement on this point. I was simply saying that it might be possible that the 4th OT is still BPA on Bills' board when pick 9 comes.

Yes, it looks like we do agree. I have a lot of confidence in the staff. I think that they have a good sense of where they are and will do what's in their best interests.

[Brandon]

I think we are in agreement on this point. I was simply saying that it might be possible that the 4th OT is still BPA on Bills' board when pick 9 comes.

 

And you're absolutely correct in that thinking. The idea that a player is the best, 4th best, or 14th best player at a position doesn't necessarily tell me anything. You still have to evaluate the individual player on his own merits.