Donald Duck Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Yeah, I've spent 10 years of my life living in different parts of the country, and all most people think of when you say, "I'm from Blahblah, NY," is New York City. when Buffalo's mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) That's the whole point that I am trying to make. Do you think the state likes having 1/2 of Niagara Falls and 1/1,000,000,000th of the revenue spent there? People do come and spend in NF, Ontario. If there were any reason to spend any time in NF, NY people would. Right now, there is no reason to do so, but if a Patriot Place or LA Live type of complex was built there people would use it IMO. Well then, if building such a place is such a great idea, let some developer build it. The state of NY is broke and over taxed. It isn't going to spend hundreds of millions to benefit a tiny city that is within a stone's throw of another rusting city they just committed a billion dollars to. What would be the point? Why is it important to save this specific town (from itself, really)? No one is going to move to NF because there is a Stadium/mall/movie theater there. Edited April 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) when Buffalo's mentioned? Yup. I was in Phoenix last month, at a spring training game. I mentioned to the guy and his mom sitting next to me I was in town from Rochester, "you know, near Buffalo" and she started talking about the time she went to a Rangers game at MSG. Edit: Of course, not everybody is that ignorant of the geography of New York State, but very many people are. Edited April 12, 2014 by jimmyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well then, if building such a place is such a great idea, let some developer build it. The state of NY is broke and over taxed. It isn't going to spend hundreds of millions to benefit a tiny city that is within a stone's throw of another rusting city they just committed a billion dollars to. What would be the point? Why is it important to save this specific town (from itself, really)? No one is going to move to NF because there is a Stadium/mall/movie theater there. I don't disagree that a large part will be done privately. I really could care less where the stadium is built personally (my family is in Williamsville). NF just seems to meet one of the prime objectives of maximizing the Southern Ontario market. If my options are NF or Toronto I am going with NF. It is somewhat of a compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhg Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Yup. I was in Phoenix last month, at a spring training game. I mentioned to the guy and his mom sitting next to me I was in town from Rochester, "you know, near Buffalo" and she started talking about the time she went to a Rangers game at MSG. Edit: Of course, not everybody is that ignorant of the geography of New York State, but very many people are. Buddy of mine grew up on Long Island. He told me that when he was a kid and the Bills were playing the Jets, he asked his father where Buffalo is and his father told him "it's in Canada". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I don't disagree that a large part will be done privately. I really could care less where the stadium is built personally (my family is in Williamsville). NF just seems to meet one of the prime objectives of maximizing the Southern Ontario market. If my options are NF or Toronto I am going with NF. It is somewhat of a compromise. Only Toronto will clearly maximize the southern Ontario market. As I said before, what is the goal of maximizing the Ontario market? More sellouts? Make a better team and a smaller stadium--fixed! More corporate money? 7 years of regionalization have done little or nothing to bring in more corporate money. I just don't see how moving the stadium a few miles closer (and to a center of urban blight) to the border is going to increase corporate money flow. A company is either going to pay 50,000 (or whatever) for a suite based on its business value (reward for top execs, wooing clients) or it's not. I don't think crossing the border to NF is any different than going to Buffalo for these big money Canadians and corporations. In fact, I don't see how any stadium outside of Toronto will bring in that money. The Bills/Toronto series was a completely predictable disaster for the Rogers family. The half empty stadiums (filled, as they were, with fans of the opposing teams) were no surprise: why would people in Toronto cheer for a Buffalo team? They have their own (pseudo) football team to root for. However, if the NFL had a team in Toronto, I have no doubt they would pack a new stadium every week and all the luxury suites would be sold out. These people are just not going to drop that kind of money on a Buffalo team--in Buffalo or NF. Continued belief that they will makes little sense. Edited April 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 They do? Please enlighten me on this statement. It took one week on my road trip last year to give up explaining where I am from when people asked. I was in Memphis. A lady saw my license when I opened my wallet and explained that she had a friend who lived way upstate... in Ossining. OSSINING. Then I said I'm close to Buffalo. Blank stare. So I said, "You know where Niagara Falls is?" ... "Oh, you're Canadian?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Good stuff, thanks for posting JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Real football is not played in a dome. Domes are for wimps. I find it hard to believe that Mr. Wilson didn't make allowances in his Will, or otherwise. No reason for the family to share it publicly now. But he felt very strongly about keeping the team in Buffalo. I always hated Bon Jovi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Only Toronto will clearly maximize the southern Ontario market. As I said before, what is the goal of maximizing the Ontario market? More sellouts? Make a better team and a smaller stadium--fixed! More corporate money? 7 years of regionalization have done little or nothing to bring in more corporate money. I just don't see how moving the stadium a few miles closer (and to a center of urban blight) to the border is going to increase corporate money flow. A company is either going to pay 50,000 (or whatever) for a suite based on its business value (reward for top execs, wooing clients) or it's not. I don't think crossing the border to NF is any different than going to Buffalo for these big money Canadians and corporations. In fact, I don't see how any stadium outside of Toronto will bring in that money. The Bills/Toronto series was a completely predictable disaster for the Rogers family. The half empty stadiums (filled, as they were, with fans of the opposing teams) were no surprise: why would people in Toronto cheer for a Buffalo team? They have their own (pseudo) football team to root for. However, if the NFL had a team in Toronto, I have no doubt they would pack a new stadium every week and all the luxury suites would be sold out. These people are just not going to drop that kind of money on a Buffalo team--in Buffalo or NF. Continued belief that they will makes little sense. There are over 15,000 STH coming from Canada now. A new stadium in all likelihood will require PSL's and higher priced tickets. In order to make a reality they will need the money from Southern Ontario. That's the exact reason that the Bills started in Rochester and now onto Southern Ontario. WNY alone cannot handle what the situation will look like with a new stadium. There will be no more $70 tickets between the goal lines, it will be 2-3 times that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Remember someone drew this up 3 years ago. A Lucas Oil like stadium overlooking the falls https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aFauB8KNc_k8rGiuOHLTig?feat=directlink Interesting idea, not sure there is room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman128 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I heard at the local coffee shop one of the local grape farmers in Silver Creek, wants to sell his land to the Bills to build a new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 There are over 15,000 STH coming from Canada now. A new stadium in all likelihood will require PSL's and higher priced tickets. In order to make a reality they will need the money from Southern Ontario. That's the exact reason that the Bills started in Rochester and now onto Southern Ontario. WNY alone cannot handle what the situation will look like with a new stadium. There will be no more $70 tickets between the goal lines, it will be 2-3 times that. What's keeping those high rolling Canadian PSL-waiting-to-buyin Bills fans from going to games now? And how will moving to NF stimulate even more of them them to pony up for PSLs? And if PSLs are going to be sold, the stadium will never be built unless the vast majority are bought by people in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 when Buffalo's mentioned? Yes! People here in Illinois think BFLO is parked right next to NYC! I tell them getting to Chicago is only 20% farther than getting from BFLO to NYC. It is 500 for me to get from WNY to my home in Illinois. What's the BFLO to NYC distance? 400, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) What's keeping those high rolling Canadian PSL-waiting-to-buyin Bills fans from going to games now? And how will moving to NF stimulate even more of them them to pony up for PSLs? And if PSLs are going to be sold, the stadium will never be built unless the vast majority are bought by people in WNY. Up until recently the Bills were not allowed to market in Southern Ontario. Their marketing rights stopped at the border and were taken over by NFL Canada. The Bills pushed back because of the proximity and have been able to recently get in there and grow their fan base. It is still in its infancy however. I do not think that they can count solely on WNY to move the suites and licensed seats necessary. The Bills know that as well and that is why they have put forth the effort to make inroads there. Edited April 13, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Retractable dome roofs cost a boatload of $ and I wonder about the harsh winter weather and heavy snow....I disagree that people don't like outside football. I used to go to games in the Kingdome, I've been to the Georgia Dome, Reliant Stadium and SuperDomer - it just doesn't feel feel when you're used to watching football outside. If the Bills stay I would like to see the stadium in the city. Here in Seattle we have the Clink next to the Safe and if they ever get an NBA team that stadium will be close by too. There are lots of hotels downtown plus trains and buses. It's really convenient to be downtown. I realize most people who live in suburbia think "the city" is a foreign country but it's actually pretty cool to have a reason to go down there. If the Bills go, I suspect the Ralph will become the world's biggest bonfire. I still believe someone has something up their sleeve. But if the Bills move, by then Pete Carroll will have been fired by the Seahawks so I can become a Seahawks fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Let's turn Niagara Falls, one of the 7 Wonders of the World, into a fountain light show for the the NFL. https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink I think there should be a drawing every year (just from the area residents), where the lucky family gets to sacrifice the youngest of their household to the Buffalo Bills each Opening Day. Fill that stadium right up. Or maybe dig up the grounds of the old chemical plants and build there. In fact, that might be the best way for those companies to evade any multimillion dollar cleanups or giant lawsuits...we all know the NFL can take care of just about anything. Edited April 13, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Up until recently the Bills were not allowed to market in Southern Ontario. Their marketing rights stopped at the border and were taken over by NFL Canada. The Bills pushed back because of the proximity and have been able to recently get in there and grow their fan base. It is still in its infancy however. I do not think that they can really solely on WNY to move the suites and licensed seats necessary. The Bills know that as well and that is why they have put forth the effort to make inroads there. The Bills have been marketing directly to Toronto since the series began. NFL Canada, as you say, handles the business interests of the NFL in Canada--mainly marketing the NFL border teams to Canadians. What have the Bills done, other than hold games at the Skydome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Or maybe dig up the grounds of the old chemical plants and build there. In fact, that might be the best way for those companies to evade any multimillion dollar cleanups or giant lawsuits...we all know the NFL can take care of just about anything. That would double the price of the stadium and take years and years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The Bills have been marketing directly to Toronto since the series began. NFL Canada, as you say, handles the business interests of the NFL in Canada--mainly marketing the NFL border teams to Canadians. What have the Bills done, other than hold games at the Skydome? The Bills can have a marketing presence there now. What specifically are they doing, I don't know. I would imagine commercials, radio networks, preseason broadcast, bill boards, school visits, etc.... I would guess that some grassroots marketing is taking place. That area just recently became a part of the Bills territory was the point that I was making. It takes time to cultivate a fan base (generations often) but the Bills has to start somewhere. Once they were allowed to put a stake in the ground in Southern Ontario they laid the foundation. As time goes on it will only continue to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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