Jonathan Martin

[boyst]

Isn't this horse dead yet?

[papazoid]

Yet The HC remains.....

 

for now......

 

he was helped by endorsements from don shula and tony dungy.

 

philbin faces the media today at the combine.....those guys are bound to make him look bad.

 

Isn't this horse dead yet?

 

the subject of bullying ain't going away anytime soon....

[NoSaint]

Isn't this horse dead yet?

 

Coaches being fired is a relevant development - not just us talking in circles.

[boyst]

 

 

for now......

 

he was helped by endorsements from don shula and tony dungy.

 

philbin faces the media today at the combine.....those guys are bound to make him look bad.

 

 

 

the subject of bullying ain't going away anytime soon....

this hasn't been about bullying since day 1. Its been a media narrative spun on us and a soap opera of million dollar players. If this was anything else but professional athletes we would know nothing.

 

Bullying is bullying. No debate about it being good or bad. There is no place for it in any setting. This case is 1% bullying. 99% bull ****. Its unfortunate and sad in every way possible. But its not something its not. Its a soap opera.

 

 

 

Coaches being fired is a relevant development - not just us talking in circles.

I get that point. But that its still being debated as acceptable or appropriate is just mind boggling. Its not either. But its a whole different world then we know. Like the mafia. Being a millionaire CEO jet settling playboy. Drug kingpin. Actor. It is relevant to recent events but the "bullying" is not. That ship sailed months ago.

[TXBILLSFAN]

this hasn't been about bullying since day 1. Its been a media narrative spun on us and a soap opera of million dollar players. If this was anything else but professional athletes we would know nothing.

 

Bullying is bullying. No debate about it being good or bad. There is no place for it in any setting. This case is 1% bullying. 99% bull ****. Its unfortunate and sad in every way possible. But its not something its not. Its a soap opera.

 

I get that point. But that its still being debated as acceptable or appropriate is just mind boggling. Its not either. But its a whole different world then we know. Like the mafia. Being a millionaire CEO jet settling playboy. Drug kingpin. Actor. It is relevant to recent events but the "bullying" is not. That ship sailed months ago.

You have to read the report, while I agree a lot of this is bulls***, this is a classic case of bullying. I know it's hard for some to understand in the context of a locker room and with 300+ lb physically gifted athletes who make a ton of money that one of them (or more) could be bullied, but it did happen and the vast majority of thos who have read the report have concluded as much. I also wouldn't put so much emphasis on what Dolphin players said in the immediate aftermath and wait to hear what they say now that the report is out and all of them know EVERYTHING that went on. A lot of players were not aware of the behind the scenes bullying that was taking place between RI/JJ/MP and JM. I think in the immediate aftermath, most teams have a circle the wagons, us vs. them mentality. As I predicted earlier, both coach and trainer have now been fired, I believe the next shoe to drop is for Pouncey to be released (or traded), this might not happen immediately due to salary cap considerations, but it will happen.

[GunnerBill]

This case is 1% bullying. 99% bull ****.

 

It is fundamentally about bullying. The report is very clear. The fact that a soap opera has developed around the story is unfortunate, but there was a very clear pattern of bullying behaviour at the root of this issue, to try and claim that is no more than 1% is rather ridiculous to my mind.

[boyst]

 

 

It is fundamentally about bullying. The report is very clear. The fact that a soap opera has developed around the story is unfortunate, but there was a very clear pattern of bullying behaviour at the root of this issue, to try and claim that is no more than 1% is rather ridiculous to my mind.

the story. The focus, attention, narrative, discussion, reporting, etc. Has all been 99% bs. No one reporting this cares about the bullying. And anyone who cares about bullying is hardly caring about this.

[GunnerBill]

Of course people reporting this care about the bullying. What do you think it's about then? What secret agenda is there? Because I don't see one.

[Mr. WEO]

You have to read the report, while I agree a lot of this is bulls***, this is a classic case of bullying. I know it's hard for some to understand in the context of a locker room and with 300+ lb physically gifted athletes who make a ton of money that one of them (or more) could be bullied, but it did happen and the vast majority of thos who have read the report have concluded as much. I also wouldn't put so much emphasis on what Dolphin players said in the immediate aftermath and wait to hear what they say now that the report is out and all of them know EVERYTHING that went on. A lot of players were not aware of the behind the scenes bullying that was taking place between RI/JJ/MP and JM. I think in the immediate aftermath, most teams have a circle the wagons, us vs. them mentality. As I predicted earlier, both coach and trainer have now been fired, I believe the next shoe to drop is for Pouncey to be released (or traded), this might not happen immediately due to salary cap considerations, but it will happen.

 

Did/do you predict Philbin will be fired? Dumping a position coach and the trainer was trimming the low hanging fruit--it doesn't address "institutional" oversight issues. We will know how serious the NFL/Dolphins are about this if he isn't let go.

 

I predict he stays.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Of course people reporting this care about the bullying. What do you think it's about then? What secret agenda is there? Because I don't see one.

"They" want to make America soft and wimpy? I don't know, I'm trying to channel my inner person who gets real offended about all this kind of stuff, and I can't locate him right now.

 

I see a kid with depression issues, and a team exacerbating them instead of trying to help their employee and teammate. I'm not sure why it kills anybody to have this response. That the media coverage is overblown, distorted, outsized, etc should surprise nobody. It is about time for this story to resolve itself, for the teams to correct course if they're following the wrong one, and for us to move on, too.

 

By the way, did you hear there are massive and sometimes violent street demonstrations happening right now in Venezuela and Thailand, not just in Ukraine? Probably not. Let's please talk about how important this all is for longer.

[boyst]

Of course people reporting this care about the bullying. What do you think it's about then? What secret agenda is there? Because I don't see one.

this is where the water gets murky

 

There is no secret agenda. It was a story and it is significant. But its not a headline worth the attention it is getting. Much like the Amanda Todd case there is a lot more then the simpleheadline of the story . The media had a good headline. Million dollar NFL first round selection quits team. May be suicidal and crazy. Was bullied. Was victm. It had everything but sex appeal to make it a great story. And then it still had sex appeal. Is one guy gay? Are they ex lovers? Every web was spun.

 

I don't want to get in to this too deep but the reporting of it reminds me of many other stories. Especially out of Florida.

 

 

"They" want to make America soft and wimpy? I don't know, I'm trying to channel my inner person who gets real offended about all this kind of stuff, and I can't locate him right now.

 

I see a kid with depression issues, and a team exacerbating them instead of trying to help their employee and teammate. I'm not sure why it kills anybody to have this response. That the media coverage is overblown, distorted, outsized, etc should surprise nobody. It is about time for this story to resolve itself, for the teams to correct course if they're following the wrong one, and for us to move on, too.

 

By the way, did you hear there are massive and sometimes violent street demonstrations happening right now in Venezuela and Thailand, not just in Ukraine? Probably not. Let's please talk about how important this all is for longer.

well put. Better then my attempt with work ADD interrupting every 5 seconds Edited February 20, 2014 by jboyst62

[TXBILLSFAN]

Did/do you predict Philbin will be fired? Dumping a position coach and the trainer was trimming the low hanging fruit--it doesn't address "institutional" oversight issues. We will know how serious the NFL/Dolphins are about this if he isn't let go.

 

I predict he stays.

I think he stays, too. It seems from the outset that Philbin (and maybe Ross/Ireland) did a masterful job at creating plausible deniability or distance between Philbin and the JM/RI issue. I think that very fact means Dolphins are not serious about this issue. The NFL, I believe is very serious. I do think Philbin is immediately on the hotseat, however.

 

this is where the water gets murky

 

There is no secret agenda. It was a story and it is significant. But its not a headline worth the attention it is getting. Much like the Amanda Todd case there is a lot more then the simpleheadline of the story . The media had a good headline. Million dollar NFL first round selection quits team. May be suicidal and crazy. Was bullied. Was victm. It had everything but sex appeal to make it a great story. And then it still had sex appeal. Is one guy gay? Are they ex lovers? Every web was spun.

 

I don't want to get in to this too deep but the reporting of it reminds me of many other stories. Especially out of Florida.

 

well put. Better then my attempt with work ADD interrupting every 5 seconds

Of course the reporting on this was way over the top, but this is the NFL, the #1 sport in the U.S., I would expect nothing different. You need to separate the reporting from the core issue and I believe the core issue is very valid and I think the NFL is taking and going to take it very serious. Like I said in earlier post, I am anxious to hear from Dolphin players NOW, after they've read the report. I suspect you will see a different tone.

 

"They" want to make America soft and wimpy? I don't know, I'm trying to channel my inner person who gets real offended about all this kind of stuff, and I can't locate him right now.

 

I see a kid with depression issues, and a team exacerbating them instead of trying to help their employee and teammate. I'm not sure why it kills anybody to have this response. That the media coverage is overblown, distorted, outsized, etc should surprise nobody. It is about time for this story to resolve itself, for the teams to correct course if they're following the wrong one, and for us to move on, too.

 

By the way, did you hear there are massive and sometimes violent street demonstrations happening right now in Venezuela and Thailand, not just in Ukraine? Probably not. Let's please talk about how important this all is for longer.

What you see in this situation is a kid being bullied. Jonathon Martin is no different than the kid in middle or high school that is bullied. Don't get fooled by his size, athleticism or money. This is bullying 101, just read a few articles on the subject. Bullying is about taking advantage of someone mentally and/or physically to humiliate or demean him. It's about controlling that individual, remember RI's line "he's MY bi**ch".

[GunnerBill]

Well I'm slightly removed from the American media coverage obviously so I don't know how much it's been overblown... I suspect it has been that's the same as the way the media here in the UK blow stories about soccer players up to be way more than they are. As for making America more "soft and wimpy".... what a load of utter tosh. It makes a country soft and wimpy does it to show compassion, tolerance and understanding of individual driven to the edge by inappropriate treatment from a gang of idiots? If it does sign me up for some soft and wimpy every day of the week.

 

As for the last bit of TXBILLSFAN's response above. 100% on the money.

[Mr. WEO]

I think he stays, too. It seems from the outset that Philbin (and maybe Ross/Ireland) did a masterful job at creating plausible deniability or distance between Philbin and the JM/RI issue. I think that very fact means Dolphins are not serious about this issue. The NFL, I believe is very serious. I do think Philbin is immediately on the hotseat, however.

 

 

Of course the reporting on this was way over the top, but this is the NFL, the #1 sport in the U.S., I would expect nothing different. You need to separate the reporting from the core issue and I believe the core issue is very valid and I think the NFL is taking and going to take it very serious. Like I said in earlier post, I am anxious to hear from Dolphin players NOW, after they've read the report. I suspect you will see a different tone.

 

I don't see why any Dolphin player would cop to encouraging an atmosphere of bullying and publically speak out agaisnt their team, unless they were made to by the league or the owner. There is nothing in that report that should come as news to anyone in that locker room.

 

How was Philbin able to evade the dogged inquiry of impartial Ted Wells? And even if somehow Philbin knew absolutely not one detail of this, was completely and truly oblivious to what was going on with his locker room--why would it matter? Shouldn't he get fired anyway--for being oblivious?

 

The Dolphins and the NFL are doing their due diligance and putting out the sound bites. But with the combine here and next the draft, they want to warp this up and put it away. All they need to do is dispo Martin and this is history.

 

There will be serious cooments from Goodell about how the league is serious about bullying.

 

There will be lectures about bullying rookies in rookie camp.

 

There will be PSAs from the NFL with players telling kids it's not cool to bully others--and for kids to speak up and speak out against bullying.

 

There will be mandated team psychologists who will monitor the behavior of teams and will be a confidential provider of psych counseling for players who feel they are being bullied.

 

All of this will be meshed with the NFL's new gay player in our midst policy it is soon to roll out ahead of anticipated heightened locker room homophobia.

[C.Biscuit97]

Good posts Gunner, RTDB, & Tx.

[Mr. WEO]

What you see in this situation is a kid being bullied. Jonathon Martin is no different than the kid in middle or high school that is bullied. Don't get fooled by his size, athleticism or money. This is bullying 101, just read a few articles on the subject. Bullying is about taking advantage of someone mentally and/or physically to humiliate or demean him. It's about controlling that individual, remember RI's line "he's MY bi**ch".

 

I just read through 1000 texts between theses two guys spanning over a year and up to 3 weeks before he quit the team.

 

It reads like 2 total "bros". What struck me most is how, by reading them, you have no idea that JM is suffering abuse at the hand of RI, and you get no sense that RI is this raging sadist.

 

If you read only those texts and knew nothing else of this story, you would never conclude there is a abusive relationship going on. It's fascinating. Totally inconfruent with the events.

 

Check it out:

 

http://thebiglead.com/2014/02/03/here-are-over-1000-text-messages-that-richie-incognito-and-jonathan-martin-allegedly-exchanged/

Edited February 20, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

I just read through 1000 texts between theses two guys spanning over a year and up to 3 weeks before he quit the team.

 

It reads like 2 total "bros". What struck me most is how, by reading them, you have no idea that JM is suffering abuse at the hand of RI, and you get no sense that RI is this raging sadist.

 

If you read only those texts and knew nothing else of this story, you would never conclude there is a abusive relationship going on. It's fascinating. Totally inconfruent with the events.

 

Check it out:

 

http://thebiglead.com/2014/02/03/here-are-over-1000-text-messages-that-richie-incognito-and-jonathan-martin-allegedly-exchanged/

 

Crazy that an outside party, who had access to a lot more than just texts, found several Dolphins members guilty.

[Mr. WEO]

Crazy that an outside party, who had access to a lot more than just texts, found several Dolphins members guilty.

 

Wow, you couldn't even spend 5 minutes to read those texts and formulate your own opinion about the dynamic between these two and how it relates to the Wells report?

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Wow, you couldn't even spend 5 minutes to read those texts and formulate your own opinion about the dynamic between these two and how it relates to the Wells report?

 

Huh? The texts are one part of a giant picture. There's a ton that went on in the lockerroom that you don't have access to. If you form your opinion just based on the texts, it's just stupid & wrong.

[Mr. WEO]

Huh? The texts are one part of a giant picture. There's a ton that went on in the lockerroom that you don't have access to. If you form your opinion just based on the texts, it's just stupid & wrong.

 

You could also spend 15 seconds re-reading my post. I'm simply saying that it is interesting that the text reveal no pathology in this relationship at all--and that is at odds with all the other evidence.

 

I'm asking you and others to form an opinion after reading the texts. I can see you don't want to. This is a direct look into the documented social relationship these guys had. Why would you dismiss it--especially without reading it?