Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You don't need me to answer that question. They want to be treated like everyone else and that's fine, but I'm not going to any gay pride parades any time soon. So their cause is to be treated equally? Got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Let me ask you this one question. If you had a first born child on the way would you want him to be gay? All else being equal, I wouldn't care either way. But its an unfair and irrelevant question. If I lived in Nazi Germany, would I want my child to be Jewish? If I lived in the ante-bellum south, would I want my child to be african american? If I lived in a world where people with red hair were unfairly and unjustifiably discriminated against in virtually every walk of life, would I want my child to have red hair? If I say answer any of those questions with the word "no", does that mean I am anti-semitic or a racist? Does it mean I am a hypocrite if I preach equality and fraternity for all? How is that question at all relevant to the issue? I would not want my child subjected to bigotry and hate. But my answer to that concern isn't to pray for straight children, its to pray for a world safe for all children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 This conversation may never evolve into a football conversation until the people involved evolve. The only way that people are going to evolve is through experience and interaction. No Justice said that he does not have any gay friends or family members. What Sam did was open the door for more people to come out and be themselves. As this happens people like No Justice may come to learn that they are not that bad. or that maybe he does have gay friends and family that dont want him thinking they are sick. but as you said, baby steps. and if the manly forum of an nfl locker room can deal with it... thats potentially a big step both for closeted athletes, and fans who think its feminine or weak to be gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Juronimo – Go ahead. Explain your motivation for the post about how "ole Sam", an openly gay college athlete, isn't so courageous after all and the "cynic" (not to be confused with the now reformed homophobe in you) is skeptical that ole Sam would have come out after the draft. Where were you going with that one? I'm sure that post emanated from a place of love seeing as you've changed your ways. Your complete 180 on the issue in only 2 short years is nothing short of remarkable. Bro seriously, are you reading right out of the gay activist manual or something? Let’s take it one at a time, although I must add that you have ignored every single question aimed at you, but whatever, you’re a superficial debater, and nowhere near as informed, although, I’m sure you’re quite proud of just how super-duper tolerant you appear to others. First off, a homophobe is a person who are they themselves uncomfortable with their own homosexual tendencies. The words definition was re-written some 40 years ago to reflect opposing viewpoints on homosexuality as contemptuous. Look it up sparky, the word never meant what it means today as a rhetorical battering ram to attempt to shame those that are all “icky” with homosexuality. Secondly, ole Sam apparently told his teammates in August that he was gay, and this came out in February. Now, I don’t know about you, but I find that extremely hard to believe that over 90 people, at least, knew this guy was gay, and in a world where social media runs wild, not a single person blew his cover. Now, it appears as though it was going to come out anyway, so ole Sam decided to break the news himself. This is how I envision it all went down. Ole Sam never told his teammates to the extent we are lead to believe by the media. He may have told a few close friends and teammates, but I doubt very seriously (the cynic in me) that 90 guys some of them homophobes (as you put it) all kept his secret.. I call BS on that all day long. I read that the media suspected he was gay and started calling around, talking to family, friends, and THIS is how ole Sam learned it was going to come out eventually, and beat the news cycle by breaking the news himself. No one in his family knew and ole Dad got the call while he was eating at Denny’s.. Now if you believe that ole Sam told 90+ guys that he was gay and all of them kept his secret then all the power to ya sunshine. Thirdly, I have not done any 180 on the issue. I have evolved over time, yes, but my core belief that homosexuality is, one, preventable, and two, a mostly conditioned phenomenon stays the same. My tolerance level for some things gay has changed, granted, but I am still a firm believer that homosexuality should not be embraced or institutionalized in our schools, where I believe children are at their most vulnerable. By the way, I stopped posting on FreeRepublic a couple of years ago, although I was never really a big poster there anyway because of how vitriolic the anti-gay sentiment was. I have no use for hatred from ignorance, however, I do appreciate a good debate on fascinating topics such as the one involving sexuality. I could teach a first year college course on genetics with all that I’ve learned over the years, and I find when people on both sides appreciate the others viewpoints the debate topic can be quite rewarding. Now, ya got anything else, or are we done? All you’ve managed to accomplish is waste my time on this thread. I know you think you’re being super intellectual with your trap questions, and snide comments hoping to induce me into some gay bashing tirade but you’re wasting my and everyone else’s time for doing so. Save the bandwidth, or contribute in a positive and mutually understanding tone, and you’ll see that it will be reciprocal. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I guess the human anatomy doesn't mean a damn thing to you. Men and women have working parts that go hand in hand. God made us like this. It's the only way we can reproduce. I've already stated that anal sex is disgusting and it makes no difference who is doing it, you do know what comes out of there, right? It's irrational to be disgusted by that? Please. Which is dead last on the list of reasons why I have sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Which is dead last on the list of reasons why I have sex. ZING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Which is dead last on the list of reasons why I have sex. Ha ha, this one wins. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Which is dead last on the list of reasons why I have sex. Hahaha. You mean you don't plan on having sex only a few times in your life to reproduce? You know.... lights off, clothes on, missionary, crying? Or am I all alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Therein lies the problem. You people believe it's normal. I don't. Maybe it's because I never dealt with the problem first hand. I don't have any gay friends or family members and I come from a very big family. My views may be outdated, but that's just me. I'm old school and I believe old school morals are better than today's, except for the racism. Homosexuality, to me, is a sickness that can't be cured. People are born with various conditions and that's just one of them. That's how I look at it. It still ain't "the norm". PS. Speaking for team hetero, I'd like to thank all the straight people in my past for my very existence. I'm glad you were who you were and made me what I am today. Why aren't you thanking the gay and bisexual people in your past? You do realize that gay and bisexual men do have sex with women and father children, don't you? And lesbian women do have children. The odds of you not having a single gay ancestor in your family tree is essentially zero. I am glad you realize your beliefs on this issue are outdated. But I think the better description would be a belief that, more than being outdated, is fast on its way towards extinction. Ideas and beliefs are subject to a process similar to natural selection. Bad ideas and erroneous beliefs eventually die out or are at least reduced to irrelevancy. "Gay people are sick" is a wooly mammoth idea that is tops on the list of endangered beliefs. Someday we will have to go to museums to see it. Thanks for giving me the chance to see it in its natural habitat! Edited February 12, 2014 by Mickey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Juronimo – Which is dead last on the list of reasons why I have sex. See..Juronimo at it again. He asked you if you thought it was irrational to think anal sex was disgusting, and you’re answer was not what he asked you. By the way, it might be dead last on why you have sex “now” but it’s not dead last when you’re actually having or thinking about having children. Now THAT would be irrational. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Why aren't you thanking the gay and bisexual people in your past? You do realize that gay and bisexual men do have sex with women and father children, don't you? And lesbian women do have children. The odds of you not having a single gay ancestor in your family tree is essentially zero. I am glad you realize your beliefs on this issue are outdated. But I think the better description would be a belief that, more than being outdated, is fast on its way towards extinction. Ideas and beliefs are subject to a process similar to natural selection. Bad ideas and erroneous beliefs eventually die out or are at least reduced to irrelevancy. "Gay people are sick" is a wooly mammoth idea that is tops on the list of endangered beliefs. Someday we will have to go to museums to see it. Thanks for giving me the chance to see it in its natural habitat! I really wish I had your gift for writing. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hahaha. You mean you don't plan on having sex only a few times in your life to reproduce? You know.... lights off, clothes on, missionary, crying? Or am I all alone? I almost spit coffee all over my keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Numark – Hahaha. You mean you don't plan on having sex only a few times in your life to reproduce? You know.... lights off, clothes on, missionary, crying? Or am I all alone? How very tolerant of you, making fun of his predilection for decency as he sees it. You guys always expose yourselves eventually. In any regard, I have a question for you, another poster that fails to actually answer them when asked, instead choosing something else to respond with, however, why do you suppose sex feels good? Any ideas? Just curious? Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Juronimo – Bro seriously, are you reading right out of the gay activist manual or something? Let’s take it one at a time, although I must add that you have ignored every single question aimed at you, but whatever, you’re a superficial debater, and nowhere near as informed, although, I’m sure you’re quite proud of just how super-duper tolerant you appear to others. First off, a homophobe is a person who are they themselves uncomfortable with their own homosexual tendencies. The words definition was re-written some 40 years ago to reflect opposing viewpoints on homosexuality as contemptuous. Look it up sparky, the word never meant what it means today as a rhetorical battering ram to attempt to shame those that are all “icky” with homosexuality. Secondly, ole Sam apparently told his teammates in August that he was gay, and this came out in February. Now, I don’t know about you, but I find that extremely hard to believe that over 90 people, at least, knew this guy was gay, and in a world where social media runs wild, not a single person blew his cover. Now, it appears as though it was going to come out anyway, so ole Sam decided to break the news himself. This is how I envision it all went down. Ole Sam never told his teammates to the extent we are lead to believe by the media. He may have told a few close friends and teammates, but I doubt very seriously (the cynic in me) that 90 guys some of them homophobes (as you put it) all kept his secret.. I call BS on that all day long. I read that the media suspected he was gay and started calling around, talking to family, friends, and THIS is how ole Sam learned it was going to come out eventually, and beat the news cycle by breaking the news himself. No one in his family knew and ole Dad got the call while he was eating at Denny’s.. Now if you believe that ole Sam told 90+ guys that he was gay and all of them kept his secret then all the power to ya sunshine. Thirdly, I have not done any 180 on the issue. I have evolved over time, yes, but my core belief that homosexuality is, one, preventable, and two, a mostly conditioned phenomenon stays the same. My tolerance level for some things gay has changed, granted, but I am still a firm believer that homosexuality should not be embraced or institutionalized in our schools, where I believe children are at their most vulnerable. By the way, I stopped posting on FreeRepublic a couple of years ago, although I was never really a big poster there anyway because of how vitriolic the anti-gay sentiment was. I have no use for hatred from ignorance, however, I do appreciate a good debate on fascinating topics such as the one involving sexuality. I could teach a first year college course on genetics with all that I’ve learned over the years, and I find when people on both sides appreciate the others viewpoints the debate topic can be quite rewarding. Now, ya got anything else, or are we done? All you’ve managed to accomplish is waste my time on this thread. I know you think you’re being super intellectual with your trap questions, and snide comments hoping to induce me into some gay bashing tirade but you’re wasting my and everyone else’s time for doing so. Save the bandwidth, or contribute in a positive and mutually understanding tone, and you’ll see that it will be reciprocal. Tim- Which is why I don't engage you on any but the most superficial of levels. You started with the belief that homosexuality was wrong, not natural, a choice as you phrased it last time, and then turned to science to support your beliefs. That is not science. That is an agenda. An agenda which is perfectly clear given your word choice and phrasing. While you may feel up to the task of teaching genetics 101, I already took that class and a few others on the topic. Your self taught brand of science where you dismiss anything inconvenient as inconclusive while simultaneously embracing a position which is absolutely fringe and, coincidentally, exactly what you hoped to prove all along, is just a bit questionable. You should stick to philosophy and theology. They suit you better. Why would I be proud of my tolerance for general human beings? Is tolerance for 10% of the population an accomplishment? I'm actually decidedly intolerant, by the way. Many people here can attest. Unlike you and your FreeRepub friends, my tolerance is on a case by case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Numark – How very tolerant of you, making fun of his predilection for decency as he sees it. You guys always expose yourselves eventually. In any regard, I have a question for you, another poster that fails to actually answer them when asked, instead choosing something else to respond with, however, why do you suppose sex feels good? Any ideas? Just curious? Tim- I already said I'm not very tolerant of bigots, racists, etc. I'm okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Judging only by strongly suggestive avatars, I'd say there is a big arrow pointing in your direction... Liking Breaking Bad makes me gay? LOLSMH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Liking Breaking Bad makes me gay? LOLSMH. Nope, try again - look harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Nope, try again - look harder. What? One guy standing behind another? Don't be juvenile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 All else being equal, I wouldn't care either way. But its an unfair and irrelevant question. If I lived in Nazi Germany, would I want my child to be Jewish? If I lived in the ante-bellum south, would I want my child to be african american? If I lived in a world where people with red hair were unfairly and unjustifiably discriminated against in virtually every walk of life, would I want my child to have red hair? If I say answer any of those questions with the word "no", does that mean I am anti-semitic or a racist? Does it mean I am a hypocrite if I preach equality and fraternity for all? How is that question at all relevant to the issue? I would not want my child subjected to bigotry and hate. But my answer to that concern isn't to pray for straight children, its to pray for a world safe for all children. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. – In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."--Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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