Superb Owl Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 What was the other decent defense he faced prior to Auburn? You can fact check with Fox Sports on the Heisman stat... they ran it after Cam Newton lost. But can you think of another QB who won a Heisman since 1986 when Testaverde won, to start and win a playoff game until now, other than Tebow? These opponent D were ranked at least as high as Auburn (http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/ncaaf/stats/team-total-defense) Florida #10 Clemson #23 Vanderbilt #25 Maryland #32 Wake Forest #33 Syracuse #39 Pittsburgh #42 NC State #61 Duke #72 Miami #78 Boston College #85 Auburn #88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) These opponent D were ranked at least as high as Auburn (http://content.usato...m-total-defense) Florida #10 Clemson #23 Vanderbilt #25 Maryland #32 Wake Forest #33 Syracuse #39 Pittsburgh #42 NC State #61 Duke #72 Miami #78 Boston College #85 Auburn #88 If you feel the defenses were good based on watching them, that is your opinion. But unlike the NFL, rankings in CFB for offensive and defense don't mean much because the level of competition varies so greatly amongst teams and conferences. ACC teams are going to have stats based upon the teams they played, which consists mainly of other ACC teams, a few cupcakes, and maybe one decent team from another conference. It pains me to say it, but as a Buckeye fan we tried to feel good about the fact that at one point in the season, our defense was ranked in the top 20! Why? The Bucks padded their defensive stats and held teams to low scores because they weren't playing anyone with a decent offense. When they did, they were exposed. FSU ended the season (including the bowl game, which helped it tremendously) with the 71st ranked Strength of Schedule. That is the 3rd worst in the top 25. I believe they were at 88 before the bowl game. If you looked up the SOS for any of the other teams except FL, it would not be good. By contrast, Auburn's SOS was 7th in the country. Their defensive ranking reflects their stats against top competition. Again, I wish it were not the case, but the best test on what you will face in the NFL is the SEC defenses. There is one defensive player in the ACC projected to be drafted in the 1st 2 rounds this year - Beasely. I'll accept FL has a good defense as they have a few very good players and a defensive HC and play in the SEC, but their team as a whole was terrible this year (you can blame the offense I guess and the fact they lost their starting QB to injury) so it got overshadowed if it was ranked #10. Clemson, on the other hand, looked bad on defense when they played any good offenses - SC, FSU, OSU. They gave up 51, 31, 35. Winston did not look good against Auburn's defense for the majority of the NC game. That is not just my opinion. But that doesn't mean he won't be good in the NFL. Many great NFL QBs didn't face top defenses in college - Big Ben and Flacco come to mind immediately. Russell Wilson arguably is another. I was commenting on the fact that he doesn't look to me, at least at this point, as a QB you tank the season for. And I'm sure y'all are joking about that... but this is hardly the first place I have seen this topic come up, so many think he is worth it for real. My opinion is simply that he is not close to an Andrew Luck, at this point.http://www.collegefo...r_rankings.html Edited January 27, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If you feel the defenses were good based on watching them, that is your opinion. But unlike the NFL, rankings in CFB for offensive and defense don't mean much because the level of competition varies so greatly amongst teams and conferences. ACC teams are going to have stats based upon the teams they played, which consists mainly of other ACC teams, a few cupcakes, and maybe one decent team from another conference. It pains me to say it, but as a Buckeye fan we tried to feel good about the fact that at one point in the season, our defense was ranked in the top 20! Why? The Bucks padded their defensive stats and held teams to low scores because they weren't playing anyone with a decent offense. When they did, they were exposed. FSU ended the season (including the bowl game, which helped it tremendously) with the 71st ranked Strength of Schedule. That is the 3rd worst in the top 25. I believe they were at 88 before the bowl game. If you looked up the SOS for any of the other teams except FL, it would not be good. By contrast, Auburn's SOS was 7th in the country. Their defensive ranking reflects their stats against top competition. Again, I wish it were not the case, but the best test on what you will face in the NFL is the SEC defenses. There is one defensive player in the ACC projected to be drafted in the 1st 2 rounds this year - Beasely. I'll accept FL has a good defense as they have a few very good players and a defensive HC and play in the SEC, but their team as a whole was terrible this year (you can blame the offense I guess and the fact they lost their starting QB to injury) so it got overshadowed if it was ranked #10. Clemson, on the other hand, looked bad on defense when they played any good offenses - SC, FSU, OSU. They gave up 51, 31, 35. Winston did not look good against Auburn's defense for the majority of the NC game. That is not just my opinion. But that doesn't mean he won't be good in the NFL. Many great NFL QBs didn't face top defenses in college - Big Ben and Flacco come to mind immediately. Russell Wilson arguably is another. I was commenting on the fact that he doesn't look to me, at least at this point, as a QB you tank the season for. And I'm sure y'all are joking about that... but this is hardly the first place I have seen this topic come up, so many think he is worth it for real. My opinion is simply that he is not close to an Andrew Luck, at this point. http://www.collegefo...r_rankings.html I agree with everything that you just said Yolo. In addition, if you watch the offense system that FSU plays and it is not complicated (despite what EJ said). There are not a lot of checks at the line; almost every ball is thrown to the first read. The exceptions are when a play breaks down. Progressions and audibles are necessary to be successful in the NFL. So far I don't see either of those things that Winston (or EJ) do well. On the flipside those are strengths of the top QBs this year (specifically Manziel and Bridgewater). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superb Owl Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yolo - good info there. I still think Winston is close to Luck. - Fsu finished out of top 20, lost 11 players to Nfl and won NC the next year - From the first snap against Pitt there was a night and day diff on offense - same players on offense except Winston - Most points in a season in College football history - Last second drive for National championship, overcoming team being outcoached - ball placement, timing, leadership all elite w capital E I do want to look at ur or kirby's claim about progressions When they had luck what was Stanford's sched strength ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Yolo - good info there. I still think Winston is close to Luck. - Fsu finished out of top 20, lost 11 players to Nfl and won NC the next year - From the first snap against Pitt there was a night and day diff on offense - same players on offense except Winston - Most points in a season in College football history - Last second drive for National championship, overcoming team being outcoached - ball placement, timing, leadership all elite w capital E I do want to look at ur or kirby's claim about progressions When they had luck what was Stanford's sched strength ? I don't know about Stanford with Luck.. would need to look that up. I don't really know much about the x's and o's of his game to be honest, I just use the eye test and listen to people who do know. Kirby seems to have more knowledge of his throws and the x's and o's. I am not doubting the guy is a supreme talent. I think he would have been the #1 overall pick last year, this year, and will be next year. But don't see that "no holes in his game" that the majority saw with Luck and, yes, RG3. Edit - I looked it up and Stanford's SOS Luck's senior year was 22nd in the country. Interestingly (maybe only to me), Baylor's was 9th. Edited January 27, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I am not doubting his talent either. I just don't think that he is the once in a generation player that guys like Manning and Luck were considered. He is not quite as safe IMO. I actually like Mariota more next year. He takes better care of the football and is the better athlete. Winston has a stronger arm but both can really throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I agree with everything that you just said Yolo. In addition, if you watch the offense system that FSU plays and it is not complicated (despite what EJ said). There are not a lot of checks at the line; almost every ball is thrown to the first read. The exceptions are when a play breaks down. Progressions and audibles are necessary to be successful in the NFL. So far I don't see either of those things that Winston (or EJ) do well. On the flipside those are strengths of the top QBs this year (specifically Manziel and Bridgewater). Since you know more about the FSU offense than a guy that played in it, please explain it to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The guy's a rapist.. but more importantly, a NATIONAL CHAMPION!! Be careful there, Mr. or Ms. Sanctimonious! I'm gonna assume you only read the headlines and forgot to mention this case was investigated and no charges were ever filed. Could it be because they found semen samples of two different guys while administering the rape kit? If you read up on the case, you will find that there were indeed 2 different semen samples on this woman. Sounds like a Hoe who had one too many that night(drinks or men or both). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Bill Rabinowitz @brdispatch 8m Very, very damning. NYT investigates the Jameis Winston case, which virtually no one else in Tallahassee did. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jamies-winston.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid%3D=tw-nytsports&_r=0 … Jason McIntyre @jasonrmcintyre 36m This is bad. RT @thebiglead: Jameis Winston: 2nd Woman Sought Counseling After Sexual Encounter According to Report http://wp.me/p3LRnW-1A8o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Bill Rabinowitz @brdispatch 8m Very, very damning. NYT investigates the Jameis Winston case, which virtually no one else in Tallahassee did. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jamies-winston.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid==tw-nytsports&_r=0 Jason McIntyre @jasonrmcintyre 36m This is bad. RT @thebiglead: Jameis Winston: 2nd Woman Sought Counseling After Sexual Encounter According to Report http://wp.me/p3LRnW-1A8o Real sketchy. The police seemed to be so negligent it is infuriating. Whether he did it or not, I wish I didn't have to think about rape every time I see him on tv now because he is going to be on tv a lot the next 15 years. Hope that girl somehow finds peace. Edited April 16, 2014 by FluffHead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Shocking. I knew this was coming and it wasn't hard to figure out. Wait until his civil trial. And how messed up is it that the President of that school had 25% of his salary paid by a booster club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Real sketchy. The police seemed to be so negligent it is infuriating. Whether he did it or not, I wish I didn't have to think about rape every time I see him on tv now because he is going to be on tv a lot the next 15 years. Hope that girl somehow finds peace. And his squinty eyes. The dude seems shady. He wasn't charged and the case is closed... yet if the media keeps coming up with ways to keep this in the news, and rightfully so based upon the fact that Tallahasee basically reminds me of the town in "Roadhouse" and they handled this like a John Grisham novel, it is going to hurt his draft stock because some teams won't want him as the face of the franchise. I'm not saying he won't be drafted high, but some teams will still look at this whole thing as a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Real sketchy. The police seemed to be so negligent it is infuriating. Whether he did it or not, I wish I didn't have to think about rape every time I see him on tv now because he is going to be on tv a lot the next 15 years. Hope that girl somehow finds peace. The last statement, is the most important....lost in all of this discussion, is the life of a young woman or women....if she or they contrived the "rape" allegation, there should a false reporting criminal charge against her / them, but that also generally speaks to a deeper problem...and much, much more often than not (and I can't speak for Florida, but I can for NY) even when a woman recants her statement, there is usually some form or level of truth to it...and rape, again by NY standards, can be a variety of things...it doesn't just have to be force, there are a number of other qualifiers that substantiate the act of rape....sad, in different ways and for different reasons depending on the veracity of these statements.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 And his squinty eyes. The dude seems shady. He wasn't charged and the case is closed... yet if the media keeps coming up with ways to keep this in the news, and rightfully so based upon the fact that Tallahasee basically reminds me of the town in "Roadhouse" and they handled this like a John Grisham novel, it is going to hurt his draft stock because some teams won't want him as the face of the franchise. I'm not saying he won't be drafted high, but some teams will still look at this whole thing as a red flag. That's because it is a huge flapping red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) That's because it is a huge flapping red flag. It is... but Johnny Football's own father basically called him an alcoholic spoiled brat less than a year ago. Worried about what he might do next, etc. I felt like, at that time, no team would want that kid as the face of their franchise. Seems like these things are conveniently forgotten. Edited April 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It is... but Johnny Football's own father basically called him an alcoholic spoiled brat less than a year ago. Worried about what he might do next, etc. I felt like, at that time, no team would want that kid as the face of their franchise. Seems like these things are conveniently forgotten. Holy cow, really?? Apple, meet orange. Repost when Johhny Football's dad (or anyone for that matter) accuses him of a violent crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Holy cow, really?? Apple, meet orange. Repost when Johhny Football's dad (or anyone for that matter) accuses him of a violent crime. I didn't compare the crimes. I said it was a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 If we are talking about a QB to take in 2015, I suggest Marcus Mariota from Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I didn't compare the crimes. I said it was a red flag. You cite an article, but only as an example of how the media "keeps coming up with ways to keep this in the news". This issue with this kid goes way beyond how it might affect his draft stock.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 You cite an article, but only as an example of how the media "keeps coming up with ways to keep this in the news". This issue with this kid goes way beyond how it might affect his draft stock.... To me, it seems like ESPN loves Winston. They keep trying to build him up. Now the criminal case is closed and it seems to be brushed under the rug. Media besides ESPN has continued to investigate, however. I wonder how it will affect his draft stock. It was just a comment. I didn't say that was the only issue at hand, but I was commenting from a football perspective only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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