OldTimer1960 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) So the Bills have a better WR plan than these recent Superbowl winning teams had? That plan being getting a "tall" #1 WR even though he's not nearly as talented as the 6'1" Watkins? There's a completely valid reason why people keep bringing up the James Hardy pick. Because it's the perfect example of the Bills blowing a high draft pick at WR because height was more important than actual skills and talent. Hardy was considered a good WR prospect coming out of school. He wasn't considered a "reach" at the time. In his 3 yrs in the Big 10 he had 186 catches, 2690 yards and 36 TDs. That' very productive against a high level of competition. People need to realize that right around 50% of 2nd round picks don't make much impact in the NFL. That is league-wide, not just "the dumb old Bills". Edited December 21, 2013 by OldTimer1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 so you would rather take a taller guy that isn't as talented just because he is tall? Russell Wilson says hi. No offense...But to be perfectly honest...and know upfront that I really like Russell Wilson dating back to his Freshman year at NC St...But using Wilson as an example for any size argument is not really a good rebuttal...As soon as you get past the height thing the entire argument falls apart... Wilson is, and has always been, one of a kind...He's super smart, has incredible natural instincts, he's a great leader, a great athlete, great person...etc., etc...There is only one Russell Wilson...And in the vast majority of other cases in the NFL size does matter...That's why Wilson, with a list of gifts and intangibles a mile long, was only a 3rd round pick...Odds were, even with his incredible make-up, he would struggle due to his size...That was just the odds though, and he's proven everyone wrong...But the next time you'll see a QB prospect like Wilson have this kind of success at 5-10 5/8...well...The last one before him was Flutie (Flutie measured 5-9 3/4...And I'm not counting Drew Brees who was 6-0 2/8 or Michael Vick who measured exactly 6 feet)...And Wilson is WAY better than Flutie was...So it's going to be a while... Anyway...Players like Wilson are one in a million...And not a solid foundation for an argument favoring taking a smaller player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I haven't started doing any video evaluating yet but the one Evans highlight video I saw raised a few concerns. The thing that was really weird is that he always lined up on the wide right of the formation and constantly ran the same patterns. So that's two concerns. A third concern is that it looks like A&M's offense is extremely simplistic. The video did not show a well-rounded, versatile receiver IMO. The guy is a freak athlete but he looks to be very green also. Evans is going to be a bit overdrafted due to his size and his ability to use that size...He's not a speed guy...But I do like his overall potential a lot...I think he would fit in nicely with this group of WR's the Bills have...He would fill and immediate need...The Bills have nothing even remotely resembling Evans...Few NFL teams do...But I think if you're going to take him and expect him to be AJ Green, or Megatron, you're going to end up being a bit disappointed...If you're looking for a guy who will have a different-type impact...like that of say...a WR version of Jimmy Graham...I think Evans is your man... The Bills need all the help on Offense they can get...So I would be thrilled with Evans coming to Buffalo...He will cause match-up nightmares for Defenses in the NFL...He's super-athletic considering his size, and he'll go up and get it...Just don't expect him to be as elite as he was in College as an outside WR...Because I think his game will change/adjust in the NFL...I still think he's going to be very good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 So tell me, who has an "iron knee"? I swear people on this board... Yup. Its amazing isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 People really need to get the thought of taking a QB in round 1 next year out of their heads bc there is zero chance of that happening Yep. Manuel is lucky he doesn't see the field .. now they simply still don't know what they have and need to burn next season as well finding out. Sucks to be a Bills fan. This article has Buffalo drafting Mack in Rd 1. That would be cool...assuming no qb's are left on the board. Would be a shame if Buffalo passes on another Buffalo boy who is an all star. Here's the link http://sports.yahoo....57938--nfl.html Buffalo boy?? the kids from f ing Florida. Went to UB because it was his only scholarship offer. Only a 2 star coming out of HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Not to be a contrarian but you mentioned a team that won 13 years ago,team that won 18 years ago and a team with an HOF QB. It's different now with the rules. You cannot win without a QB period. With that being said I think that EJ has another year but he does not look like the answer to me. OK, for a recent one, how about Eli Manning? Most on here wouldn't call him elite. Mack is a player Belicheck would love to get ahold of, if by any means he is there or NE can get him - I know they will. Why would Belicheck choose a LB when they have questionably the best young LB corp in the NFL with Hightower, Mayo, Spikes? (Sarcasm)This is some of the logic many posters on this board have with the Bills selecting Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 OK, for a recent one, how about Eli Manning? Most on here wouldn't call him elite. He was for those couple of years. He is also one of the most clutch QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 He was for those couple of years. He is also one of the most clutch QBs. Yes. Eli Manning - two TD drives to WIN Superbowls. NOT FG drives ( Tom Brady). That = Elite in the annals of NFL history, regardless of what many on this board may think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Why would Belicheck choose a LB when they have questionably the best young LB corp in the NFL with Hightower, Mayo, Spikes? (Sarcasm)This is some of the logic many posters on this board have with the Bills selecting Mack. They're really not that great, though. They're very talented but they're not that good. You see a lot of mistakes there and they do not fit the Belicheck MO as much as Mack does. It would be a very Patriots move to get Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Considering all the draft "experts" and mocks have Evans rated higher than Watkins, I don't think that is an issue here. Lots of people like to fault the Bills for "going against the grain" and thinking they are smarter than everyone else and drafting a guy higher than another despite rating. In this case, if they took Watkins over Evans, it appears they would be doing just that. Of course things may change between now and the draft - there are bowl games, combine, interviews, pro days, team visits... but as of now Evans is the better all-around prospect based on the info currently out there. Everyone may have a different opinion, as always. Evans is not like James Hardy, btw. No, its because you don't stop drafting a certain type of player just because one didn't work out years ago with a different team, coaching staff and system. Slow down on the SB implications. We are just trying to build a better offense around an inexperienced QB right now. But if you must beat a dead horse on Hardy, this is not the type of player they need. Just because he is tall doesn't mean he is same WR as Evans. I watch a lot of Big 10 football and Hardy was nothing like him except height-wise. I didn't mean to confuse you. I was never trying to compare the skills of Evans to Hardy, I was comparing the situation of drafting the "tall" Hardy over a smaller guy with far more exceptional WR skills. Watkins and Evans both seemingly have well established 1st round grades. So my point is that if the Bills are going to pick WR in the 1st, and both Watkins and Evans are on the board, then they should pick the guy with far more exceptional skills which IMO would be Watkins with no hesitation. As for the better all-around prospect you might be wrong there, the first three draft websites I went to have Watkins rated higher than Evans and it's not that close... CBS Sports - Watkins #6 / Evans #13 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/24381286/big-board-underclassmen-could-make-it-another-banner-year-for-ots GBN Report - Watkins #6 / Evans #11 http://gbnreport.com/top100.html DraftTek - Watkins #4 / Evans #11 http://www.drafttek.com/ BTW, Evans could be a nice consolation prize if the Raiders pick Watkins (which they''ll probably do)...LOL I like Evans, just not nearly as much as Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 OK, for a recent one, how about Eli Manning? Most on here wouldn't call him elite. .... I view Eli as being streaky elite. He has periods of play(6+ games) where he plays like a truly great QB. As it turns out, two of those streaks of elite play culminated in SB win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I view Eli as being streaky elite. He has periods of play(6+ games) where he plays like a truly great QB. As it turns out, two of those streaks of elite play culminated in SB win. Really well put Dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I don't know if I have seen him make a play inside the hashes. That doesn't preclude him from becoming a good WR in the NFL but I am not sure how much that would help the Bills. That's exactly the question. At what point does he start contributing. Wide receiver is typically one of the positions which has a longer learning curve. Rookies at this position struggle more than rookies at most other positions. Evans is going to be a bit overdrafted due to his size and his ability to use that size...He's not a speed guy...But I do like his overall potential a lot...I think he would fit in nicely with this group of WR's the Bills have...He would fill and immediate need...The Bills have nothing even remotely resembling Evans...Few NFL teams do...But I think if you're going to take him and expect him to be AJ Green, or Megatron, you're going to end up being a bit disappointed... We Bills fans are fairly impatient, with good reason. When you look at some of the top receivers of recent years, you understand that there are a few exceptions who excel as rookies (AJ Green, Julio Jones) but most of them, even the elite, take two years (Blackmon, Jeffry) to become above average players. Some take even longer (Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant). Stephen Hill is looking like a bust right now and Michael Floyd is only starting to make an impact. If we draft a wide receiver high we might have to wait a while to see the pick bear fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I love how fans can tell in the first year how a 1st round rookie qb isn't the answer..... The view is so good from your sofa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Everyone wants shiny new toys to help with their fantasy football numbers. I just want a RG, LG and RT. We have enough skill players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 They're really not that great, though. They're very talented but they're not that good. You see a lot of mistakes there and they do not fit the Belicheck MO as much as Mack does. It would be a very Patriots move to get Mack Belichick did draft those players, so why wouldn't they fit his MO? Pats LBs are as talented, if not better than the Bills LBs, yet it's OK for the Pats to draft Mack and not the Bills? Everyone wants shiny new toys to help with their fantasy football numbers. I just want a RG, LG and RT. We have enough skill players. The Bills run defense doesn't think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Then, we can forget about the playoffs for another couple years. Manuel isn't the guy. I don't understand why teams can draft any player they want in higher rounds in consecutive years, but not a QB? because it makes the FO "look bad" and it's a sin to shake a QBs confidence :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That's exactly the question. At what point does he start contributing. Wide receiver is typically one of the positions which has a longer learning curve. Rookies at this position struggle more than rookies at most other positions. We Bills fans are fairly impatient, with good reason. When you look at some of the top receivers of recent years, you understand that there are a few exceptions who excel as rookies (AJ Green, Julio Jones) but most of them, even the elite, take two years (Blackmon, Jeffry) to become above average players. Some take even longer (Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant). Stephen Hill is looking like a bust right now and Michael Floyd is only starting to make an impact. If we draft a wide receiver high we might have to wait a while to see the pick bear fruit. San Jose I tend to agree with you, but there is a wideout in the draft that no one is paying attention to because of the school he went to. I'm going to say right now that Jordan Matthews will make an impact on whatever team drafts him and not because he's Jerry Rice's cousin. This guy played in the SEC and had over 90 receptions the past 2 seasons. The same conference that Julio Jones and AJ Green played in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Belichick did draft those players, so why wouldn't they fit his MO? Pats LBs are as talented, if not better than the Bills LBs, yet it's OK for the Pats to draft Mack and not the Bills? Those LB's in NE never did pan out as great as they were projected and Belicheck is the king of confusing moves. Mack is an ideal fit in NE. He could easily trade one of the young LB's he has now for a 2nd round pick, also. It's far fetched and drawn out but its entirely possible. NE's LB's are really not that good, not like they're hyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Pats LBs are as talented, if not better than the Bills LBs, yet it's OK for the Pats to draft Mack and not the Bills? If you've watched Mack you understand that you don't view him as a LB. You view him as a pass rusher. Here's one of the things about drafting Khalil Mack: The Bills have 2 elite inside pass rushers in Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus. They have two pretty good edge rushers in Mario and Jerry Hughes. Then you have a DC who creates pressure schematically. Because of all of this, a fairly strong argument can be made that pass rusher is not really a Bills need. This actually goes counter to one of my main personal beliefs which is that you can never have enough good pass rushers and that if there is an elite one available that you have to seriously consider whether to draft him. BTW I don't know whether I'd consider Mack elite or not. I've only watched the condensed game against Ohio University and have yet to see his supposed masterpiece against Ohio State University. Regarding linebackers (as opposed to pass rusher) if the Bills could get someone as good as Lavonte David in the first round that wouldn't make me unhappy. Put him together with Kiko and you'd have something along the lines of what the Niners have with Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman: a pair of 3-down linebackers which is a commodity that very few teams have. Our 3rd down defense would improve immensely with one more good all-around linebacker. Manny's pretty good but he's a half step slow in coverage. Edited December 21, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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