Why is Graham used more than Goodwin?

[boyst]

 

It's not just this board. Everyone thinks Graham sucks.

 

TJ has definitely improved his route running this year, and he's been noticeable in blocking as mentioned. When he can get off the line, he does get open more than his catches suggest. But, the guy has awful hands, really struggles tracking the ball and lacks an NFL body to consistently break jams. He's like DHB without the size. TJ seems like a great guy and all, but he just can't play.

not everyone. Maybe most. But most people can't answer the difference between a flanker and a split end. Or a nickel and dime D. So i don't hold much to hat everyone says

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Why is Graham used more than anyone ?? What is this man -crush by Buddy Hackett? He is non existent for games. Seems kinda weird.HMNNN.

[billsfan714]

I was hoping TJ would get a job with Tim Hortons what with all the donuts he puts up in the box score.

[Rob's House]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: TJ Graham gets wide open all day every day. It's hard to judge his hands when the ball rarely comes his way. We'll find out if he can play after he's run out of town & goes to NE.

[boyst]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: TJ Graham gets wide open all day every day. It's hard to judge his hands when the ball rarely comes his way. We'll find out if he can play after he's run out of town & goes to NE.

and que you being a "fan boy" too. He has had big drops and that's all people focus on. Those drops were in desperate times when EJ had to throw the ball and get yardage. This caused him to go thru his normal reads and check his targets. still too often he forces passes to players like SJ13 who actually turn in some great catches. But the problem is coming from the QB.

 

Somewhere there was a chart of all of EJ's throws. If it were updated I'd bet a larger then average number of those passes were in the middle of the field against guys already double covered and a far lesser amount to the guys outside - Woods and Graham being those two players, often.

 

All anyone wants to say is it is a one way battle. Graham/Goodwin. They can't want both to succeed. They can't have both. They want one or the other. And even in their hatred they never want to see Graham succeed. Most likely they are the same folks who bashed Nelson as not being legit. I don't take enough time to remember who says what around here but its frustrating.

[filthymcnasty08]

They're showcasing him for their big trade with Seattle….who now laments having to pick Russell Wilson after we smartly traded up for TJ.

[San-O]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: TJ Graham gets wide open all day every day. It's hard to judge his hands when the ball rarely comes his way. We'll find out if he can play after he's run out of town & goes to NE.

 

He might not "drop" a lot, but he certainly doesn't catch a lot.

 

I saw a % drop statistics, and found another. Also has "targeted" and % for thayt also.

 

Basically, Graham isn't going to make a lot of catches that don't hit him in the hands.

 

Choice: forget it. Might as well just throw the ball in the dirt.

 

 

 

http://www.sportingc...ats/drops/2013/

Edited December 16, 2013 by San-O

[boyst]

 

 

He might not "drop" a lot, but he certainly doesn't catch a lot.

 

I saw a % drop statistics, and found another. Also has "targeted" and % for thayt also.

 

Basically, Graham is going to make a lot of catches that don't hit him in the hands.

 

Choice: forget it. Might as well just throw the ball in the dirt.

 

 

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

thanks

[Webster Guy]

Graham gets open and has a good blocking game. He had several key blocks yesterday. This board just likes to hate on him

 

Either that or his game production reads something like 49 catches despite being targeted over 100 times, his route running cost us a game last year, and this year his TD total and lost fumbles are the same. 1 apiece.

 

Goodwin is a rookie who was hurt for a huge part of the year and he already has 3 touchdowns on only 30 targets, and has shown NFL caliber ball skills.

 

Maybe there is a reason the board has a problem with TJ. He's two seasons in and a non-factor in any game he's played in except (arguably) one game. Our WR future is a big possession guy opposite Woods and Goodwin.

 

Two little burners don't work unless you have Dan Marino throwing to them and EJ is no Dan Marino.

[boyst]

 

 

Either that or his game production reads something like 49 catches despite being targeted over 100 times, his route running cost us a game last year, and this year his TD total and lost fumbles are the same. 1 apiece.

 

Goodwin is a rookie who was hurt for a huge part of the year and he already has 3 touchdowns on only 30 targets, and has shown NFL caliber ball skills.

 

Maybe there is a reason the board has a problem with TJ. He's two seasons in and a non-factor in any game he's played in except (arguably) one game. Our WR future is a big possession guy opposite Woods and Goodwin.

 

Two little burners don't work unless you have Dan Marino throwing to them and EJ is no Dan Marino.

games on paper. Revisiing a game by the stat sheet. That's how you make a football team.

 

Goodwin has not had the opportunity Graham has had. There is no way to fix that now.

 

However. fitz would not throw the ball farther then 20 yards. He could not get it to Graham Goodwin or even the sideline if he had to. EJ is so panicked on that field and has no confidence. His confidence is low because he has stunk. I haven't given up on him either. I won't do that to any players in a Bills uniform. Anyway, those targets by EJ are a half split second when Graham is no more theb6 yards off the line. He can't beat the guy at the line. He doesn't have it physically. He needs to get past his guy split seams and get on top of coverage. He does those two things well. Catching. Not so much but his flaws catching are coach able. Tracking the ball, likely confidence, and using his body to get in position to receive the ball.

 

Go back and watch tapes last year. The dude has got a lot better reading coverages and running his routes. Conversely, Chandler hasn't. He is still a squat in middle of the field guy who is the easy check. That's the only reason our TE catches the ball. If you took Jimmy Graham, Aaron Hernandez or any TE who gets down field and placed him on this team he would be as invisible as Graham.

 

Anyway, you genius people know more about football then me and I am tired of discussing the fact that I think it is pathetic no one can actually give this guy a break. Our offense sucks, not just Graham. CJ Spiller sucks too and I see far fewer people calling him out.

[Mark Vader]

Another question I would like to ask is:

 

Why Is T.J. Graham starting over Robert Woods?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Another question I would like to ask is:

 

Why Is T.J. Graham starting over Robert Woods?

 

I bet Woods saw more snaps though. He definitely was before his injury.

[Jerry Jabber]

games on paper. Revisiing a game by the stat sheet. That's how you make a football team.

 

Goodwin has not had the opportunity Graham has had. There is no way to fix that now.

 

However. fitz would not throw the ball farther then 20 yards. He could not get it to Graham Goodwin or even the sideline if he had to. EJ is so panicked on that field and has no confidence. His confidence is low because he has stunk. I haven't given up on him either. I won't do that to any players in a Bills uniform. Anyway, those targets by EJ are a half split second when Graham is no more theb6 yards off the line. He can't beat the guy at the line. He doesn't have it physically. He needs to get past his guy split seams and get on top of coverage. He does those two things well. Catching. Not so much but his flaws catching are coach able. Tracking the ball, likely confidence, and using his body to get in position to receive the ball.

 

Go back and watch tapes last year. The dude has got a lot better reading coverages and running his routes. Conversely, Chandler hasn't. He is still a squat in middle of the field guy who is the easy check. That's the only reason our TE catches the ball. If you took Jimmy Graham, Aaron Hernandez or any TE who gets down field and placed him on this team he would be as invisible as Graham.

 

Anyway, you genius people know more about football then me and I am tired of discussing the fact that I think it is pathetic no one can actually give this guy a break. Our offense sucks, not just Graham. CJ Spiller sucks too and I see far fewer people calling him out.

 

I'm not saying Graham is or will be a bust. Usually it takes WR's some time to develop, so I agree that Graham needs time. What baffles me with this coaching staff is that they don't always give more playing time to the players that are producing more. So far, Goodwin has shown that he had better hands than Graham and should be given more of an opportunity in running different routes besides the go routes.

 

Right now, Manuel has better chemistry with Woods & Goodwin, than he does with SJ & Graham.

[3rdand12]

Why is Graham used more than anyone ?? What is this man -crush by Buddy Hackett? He is non existent for games. Seems kinda weird.HMNNN.

Oh it's a conspiracy alright

[boyst]

I'm not saying Graham is or will be a bust. Usually it takes WR's some time to develop, so I agree that Graham needs time. What baffles me with this coaching staff is that they don't always give more playing time to the players that are producing more. So far, Goodwin has shown that he had better hands than Graham and should be given more of an opportunity in running different routes besides the go routes.

 

Right now, Manuel has better chemistry with Woods & Goodwin, than he does with SJ & Graham.

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'd like to hear others take on this.

 

I am not sure I agree, EJ and SJ13 seem to have a good working relationship, in that EJ throws him the ball when he is in traffic, a lot. Some of those throws at Atlanta were just amazing to get to SJ13. Forced and all, but good.

 

So, others...your take?

[Jerry Jabber]

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'd like to hear others take on this.

 

I am not sure I agree, EJ and SJ13 seem to have a good working relationship, in that EJ throws him the ball when he is in traffic, a lot. Some of those throws at Atlanta were just amazing to get to SJ13. Forced and all, but good.

 

So, others...your take?

 

I'm not saying EJ doesn't have any type of chemistry with SJ, but SJ's numbers are significantly down this year. Granted SJ had Lewis & Tuel as well, but even with EJ throwing to him, his numbers are lower than previous years.

[BADOLBILZ]

Maybe they're afraid that if Goodwin plays too much he'll get hurt? He did get injured frequently earlier in the year.

 

 

It's amazing that this thread got to two pages with only one person noting that Goodwin is always hobbled. How is he going to get the snaps when he is inactive or has to come out of the game with injuries? There was a *flash* from Flash in November but he's been a non-factor in December. Got his hands on a ball yesterday, couldn't hold on, got hurt and had to come out. Playcallers have enough to worry about without having to wonder if a guy is ready to go from play to play. He is better than Graham but they share a similar skillset and it's very possible that Graham is earning his PT in practice and Goodwin is simply not beating him out.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I dont disagree with you much.....but I have to here....Graham is a LOUSY blocker....Goodwin gives much more effort in that department

 

I have to go with JfH on this one from what I've seen. Graham seems to go through the motions. Goodwin blocks like he just loves to lay the lumber.

Course, I haven't seen all the plays in all the games.

 

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'd like to hear others take on this.

 

I am not sure I agree, EJ and SJ13 seem to have a good working relationship, in that EJ throws him the ball when he is in traffic, a lot. Some of those throws at Atlanta were just amazing to get to SJ13. Forced and all, but good.

 

So, others...your take?

 

Wow, this is a tough one to call. So many factors to try to comb out....EJ's overall confidence level and ability to make the read & throw the ball accurately being Great Unknown #1.

Fitz and SJ definitely had a bond that took a couple years to develop. How many of Fitz' incompletions and INTs were timing routes where unconventional SJ wasn't where Fitz expected him to be?

Another great unknown.

 

The receiver I see having the best chemistry with EJ so far is Woods. I think SJ being injured, the EJ being injured, they haven't had a lot of time to get on the same page. That said, I see SJ open a lot and EJ doesn't see him/throw to him....See Great Unknown #1.

 

Something isn't working as we'd like it to work, but I can't tell you if it's chemistry, EJ, or SJ

[LB3]

 

 

 

It's amazing that this thread got to two pages with only one person noting that Goodwin is always hobbled. How is he going to get the snaps when he is inactive or has to come out of the game with injuries? There was a *flash* from Flash in November but he's been a non-factor in December. Got his hands on a ball yesterday, couldn't hold on, got hurt and had to come out. Playcallers have enough to worry about without having to wonder if a guy is ready to go from play to play. He is better than Graham but they share a similar skillset and it's very possible that Graham is earning his PT in practice and Goodwin is simply not beating him out.

 

Always hobbled? Please elaborate with actual facts on this, not just your perception. He had a fluke injury in the first game of the year that held him out until week 6. He's left the game a time or two but came back. Are players not allowed to get dinged up for a couple plays and come back? Was he injury prone in college? Do you assume he's hobbled because his playing time has waned since SJ and Woods came back?

Edited December 17, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

[BADOLBILZ]

Always hobbled? Please elaborate with actual facts on this, not just your perception. He had a fluke injury in the first game of the year that held him out until week 6. He's left the game a time or two but came back. Are players not allowed to get dinged up for a couple plays and come back? Was he injury prone in college? Do you assume he's hobbled because his playing time has waned since SJ and Woods came back?

 

Check the injury reports champ. He has had a variety of injuries. Seems to me that TJ Graham is never injured. Safe to assume TJ is practicing and earning his snaps all week. You can't make the club in the tub.