Campy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I generally have no problem cutting ties the moment I no longer believe someone is a part of "what makes the Bills good." This includes Kelsay and guy like Fred (in the event he reaches that point). But I do get why guys like Kelsay and Fred are latched onto...I get it...but Stevie is not one of those guys. No reason to latch onto Stevie. I agree. He's not really that easy to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) Nope time to move on....at this point of his career, he should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Lack of veteran leadership on this team is amazing. Kiko who is a great player (but a rookie) is the leader on D - doesn't say much for the vets. Edited December 13, 2013 by Azucho98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 time to move on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Clean house with the WRs. Let Stevie go, let Graham go. That'll free up the #1 WR spot which we can address either through the draft or by making a splash in FA or via trade (Andre Johnson?). Move Goodwin to the slot where he should be, leave Woods as your #2 (hopefully he'll progress) and then get in a big framed number 3 WR again in either FA or the draft. Goodwin should be on the outside to utilize his speed. If A. Johnson were to come here with SJ in the slot, passing game would be complete. You'd have your "throw it up" guy, your "move the chains" guy and your "deep" threat. Andre Johnson, with his age and injury history? Yes, Andre Johnson! He'd be a welcome addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I know there are a million threads, but I haven't seen a poll. Let's see how this one pans out. I think you should have added SJ's cap numbers(and dead cap hits) for the future seasons as IMO that likely would effect how some people might come to a conclusion on the matter(one way or the other). 2014: 8.5M (8.475M dead if cut) 2015: 8.85M (5.65M dead if cut) 2016: 8.95M (2.825M dead if cut) Cutting him after the season would effectively save no money(costing 8.5M either way).....but would free up the 2015 & 2016 caps by nearly 9M/year. I personally don't believe that SJ is worth that level of money to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think you should have added SJ's cap numbers(and dead cap hits) for the future seasons as IMO that likely would effect how some people might come to a conclusion on the matter(one way or the other). 2014: 8.5M (8.475M dead if cut) 2015: 8.85M (5.65M dead if cut) 2016: 8.95M (2.825M dead if cut) Cutting him after the season would effectively save no money(costing 8.5M either way).....but would free up the 2015 & 2016 caps by nearly 9M/year. I personally don't believe that SJ is worth that level of money to this team. How is that possible? That means he has a guaranteed contract? If that dead money is correct, which seems very suspect. Then cutting him is not a viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I like this idea. Esp. if they can trade him. Then get Johnson and draft another WR with the pick. We are well enough under the cap to afford a WR like Johnson. No way in someone like Andre Johnson coming here. He would go to a contender. People need to get that. Andre is hating his current team, he won't trade one loser team for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) How is that possible? That means he has a guaranteed contract? If that dead money is correct, which seems very suspect. Then cutting him is not a viable option. That's not how it works. (I think you are mistaking actual dollars paid in a year with the dollar amount counted against the cap). If he gets cut then the guaranteed monies from future years that were spread over each years cap, all come to count in the year of being cut. For instance, his 8.5M signing bonus was paid up front. It counts evenly towards each years cap under the contract(1.7M). When cut early, the money that hasn't been accounted for yet(under the cap) gets tallied and gets accounted for in the year of being cut. Though there seems to be quite a few hidden complexities to SJ's contract, the basic numbers are here: http://www.spotrac.c...stevie-johnson/ http://www.overtheca...n=WR&Team=Bills Edit: The actual dollar amounts saved become rather irrelevant as it is the cap dollars that effect whether a team is able to sign or re-sign players. SJ actual dollar savings: 2014: 5.675M 2015: 6.025M 2016: 6.125M To summarize, SJ is due to take home 5.67M in extra money in 2014. If he is cut, the Bills save that money......but due to how the cap is calculated, we will only be better off under the cap by 25K. We would however save an additional 12.15M of cash and clear 17.8M of cap room under the 2015/2016 combined caps if SJ was cut. Edited December 14, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Don't laugh. Can anyone really see the Bills winning the Super Bowl with Stevie Johnson as a reciever? Yes. absolutely . Not because of him. but with him on the team. When the Bills settle down a little (year two under Doug ) I would expect Stevie to get his groove on . The real question you re asking or you all should be , is , can anyone even see the Bills winning the superbowl at this point ? NO. i cannot see that. Stevie or no Stevie . very very very far away from that. like the last decade or so . So can stevie win a game for us ? Not lately. He and Manuel should move in together in the offseason like Fitzy did with his receivers. Get it dialed in get some trust going and timing too. Then i will envision Johnson winning a game for us. That being said if his attitude does not follow Marrones direction he wont be here next season. Book It . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 i can see them parting ways with him. id rather they trade him tho so we don't take the cap hits if they will actually use the money. i don't see them actually using it so its kind of a useless fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 If the Bills had anything in-house I thought could possibly replace what Stevie brings I might consider the possibility of cutting him...But obviously that does not seem to be the case...So I'm pretty certain he's here for at least 2014...But we'll see... Exactly. Some Bills fans were relieved last offseason to get rid of guys like David Nelson, Ryan Fitzpatrick and TJack and the "overpaid" Andy Levitre. What they got instead was Stevie playing a postion he doesn't want to play......Kevin Kolb on IR.......and Colin Brown/Doug Legursky. I am all for getting rid of disappointing players but that can only be half of the transaction. The other half is replacing them with good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Exactly. Some Bills fans were relieved last offseason to get rid of guys like David Nelson, Ryan Fitzpatrick and TJack and the "overpaid" Andy Levitre. What they got instead was Stevie playing a postion he doesn't want to play......Kevin Kolb on IR.......and Colin Brown/Doug Legursky. I am all for getting rid of disappointing players but that can only be half of the transaction. The other half is replacing them with good players. I must admit that I hope that the Bills do not enter the 2014 season with SJ on the roster. The sad part is that due to his contract, he is probably not worth a 7th round pick. SJ has some talent. His juke move off the LOS on the snap is imo his best attribute. That said, I have seen him lose more than enough games for this team. He is not close to being worth what he is paid. I think that Kevin Norwood, who can probably be had in round 4 or later would enter the NFL as a better receiver than SJ. I would like the Bills to rid themselves of SJ, and the losing mentality that he represents. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I think you should have added SJ's cap numbers(and dead cap hits) for the future seasons as IMO that likely would effect how some people might come to a conclusion on the matter(one way or the other). 2014: 8.5M (8.475M dead if cut) 2015: 8.85M (5.65M dead if cut) 2016: 8.95M (2.825M dead if cut) Cutting him after the season would effectively save no money(costing 8.5M either way).....but would free up the 2015 & 2016 caps by nearly 9M/year. I personally don't believe that SJ is worth that level of money to this team. This shows why its totally stupid to cut him now, and if he plays decent next year he should be kept for the following year. cutting him to save a few million in cap money doesn't make sense unless you can find someone better that will play for peanuts. I could care less about Ralf saving money, and cutting SJ saves nothing against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Buh Bye Stevie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMan Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Yes to go. The personification of 4 -8. Use the $$ to sign Byrd. Edited December 14, 2013 by SoulMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 $$ towards the cap doesn't mean much since the Bills are about $18M below it this year and will probably be the same in 2014 Man, that decision to defer Fitz's $7M dead money to next year makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 No way in someone like Andre Johnson coming here. He would go to a contender. People need to get that. Andre is hating his current team, he won't trade one loser team for another. Strengthen the defense in the draft and the Andre Johnson addition will make us a contender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Stevie is what, the 3rd, maybe 4th best player on our offense? And 43% of people want him off the team? And we wonder why we haven't made the playoffs since 1999? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 So we want to cut SJ cause he isn't living up to his contract and we should save the cash? Is this from the same Ralph is cheap crowd who never spends on the team, doesn't use our $20 million in cap space, Littman is the devil, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) This shows why its totally stupid to cut him now, and if he plays decent next year he should be kept for the following year. cutting him to save a few million in cap money doesn't make sense unless you can find someone better that will play for peanuts. I could care less about Ralf saving money, and cutting SJ saves nothing against the cap. We could be looking at locking up Glenn, Dareus, Kiko, Spiller, A.Williams and Hughes.....and hopefully will want to re-sign Gilmore, Woods and EJ. The 9M/year cap savings in 2015 & 2016 could come in extremely handy. $$ towards the cap doesn't mean much since the Bills are about $18M below it this year and will probably be the same in 2014 .....and setting us up nicely for when we need to spend the money on very-good/star players(not just overspend it on decent/good players). Man, that decision to defer Fitz's $7M dead money to next year makes no sense Due to the rollover rules for the cap, it made absolutely no difference. Our 2014 cap would have been exactly the same figure had we put all of the Fitz dead cap hit in the 2013 year rather than the 2014 year. Edited December 14, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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