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Problems I saw with EJ @ Browns


Bangarang

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I am curious why it is assumed his mechanics, and in particular footwork is correctable? Numerous predraft reports focused on his inability to make basic throws and execute threw progressions. The defense was that his coach at FSU didn't ask him him to do much. If you look at todays film you will see this same coach asking a freshman to throw outs, deep flies, posts screens. Maybe Jimbo knows something we don't. EJ is very athletic, and seems likable. But without mechanics teams will catch up, see: Kapaernick, Colin.

 

The slowing down of the game, I will agree will happen. When it does it wont matter if the mechanics are flawed.

 

Oh and nice workto the OP , great analysis.

 

His mechanics are readily correctable because they are confined to his footwork. His throwing motion, particularly for a man of his size and length, is remarkably compact and efficient. And his arm strength is excellent. Indeed, his arm strength is what most likely led to his footwork flaws as he's always been able to rely solely on that to get the job done. Fixing footwork, while challenging, isn't unlike teaching dance steps. It's all repetition, repetition, repetition. That's not to say old habits die easy, they don't. But he strikes me as very bright and willing to put the work in.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited by K-9
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I guess that is my point. His strength and atleticism allowed him to overcome mechanical deficiencies at every level. But when the walls start falling around anyone they default to muscle memory. We can only hope that he gets enough reps to build new muscle memory. EJ reminds me of both VY and David Carr. Neither ever overcame those footwork issues to a franchise level. Hoping for the best.

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This just in - EJ is a rookie and we have to be patient with him.

 

Yup - also of note, you can break down Brady with the all 22 and find missed receivers and such. Ej is definitely still a bit green but honestly he's doing pretty well.

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So here's a little something I put together based off of what I saw with EJ during the Browns game. I don't know what he's being coached to do or what he's doing based off of what he sees or thinks. I'm sure, or hope, that these were all things that were saw during film review and are being worked on to be corrected.

 

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So here we have a simple play action bootleg play. It looks like EJ is going to his first read the whole way here (Stevie).

 

 

 

The problem? Well, if EJ hadn't already made his mind up about going to his 1st read and waited just a split second longer he would have seen a wide open Scott Chandler

 

 

 

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Another play, a 3rd and short no less. Manuel is lined up in the shotgun and sees some pressure. The problem?

 

 

 

Well, as you can see, EJ has quite a bit of room to move up into the pocket and there is a hole to escape away from the pressure (refer to the black arrows). If you'll notice the giant red circle showing the amount of space EJ has to work with once he's escaped the pocket. He has a few options once he's there.

 

He can either try and run for the 1st down (sliding after he's gotten it of course)!

 

Or he can try and get it either of his 2 receivers at the top of the screen if either of their defenders break off to try and make a play on EJ.

 

Now here's what EJ eventually does. It's not pretty at all!

 

 

 

He runs backwards a good 12 yards from the original line of scrimmage and ends up throwing the ball away out of bounds. It's an example of a rookie, not having the experience (or smarts?) to move up into the pocket to avoid the pressure.

 

Bottom line, if he's going to succeed (or the team for that matter) he has to be aware of these things and convert on these 3rd and short situations to move the chains!

 

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Let's move on shall we?

 

Here's another play where EJ is only reading 1 side of the field. He doesn't take long to throw and I question whether it's because he knows where he's going before the ball is being snapped (a recipe for disaster in the NFL).

 

 

 

The problem?

 

Well, if EJ takes a moment to survey the rest of the field, he would see a wide open TJ Graham and Lee Smith with at least 5 yards of open field ahead of them (and a lead blocker in TJ if he goes to Lee!). EJ is well protected so there wasn't really a need for a quick throw here either. Is this Hackett protecting EJ only making read half the field? Again, we don't know.

 

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And finally, another 3rd down play that NEEDS to be converted. It can't be stressed enough. EJ needs to make this play if he's going to be the guy this franchise desperately needs him to be.

 

3rd and 4 and EJ is going to get pressured up the middle. He has Robert Woods coming across the middle right where the 1st down marker is and doesn't have a defender anywhere near him.

 

 

 

The problem? EJ sees the defender coming and rushes his throw off of his back foot and sails the throw not even coming close to his intended target of Woods and nearly gets picked off by the linebacker Kruger who you see on the 42 yard line. As you can see though, when EJ makes his throw, he still has a clean enough pocket where he can step into it and deliver it between the numbers for a big gain and a 1st down! Instead he throws off his back foot and misses badly

 

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Conclusion? EJ makes some really nice throws and does some really good things. But, his inexperience really shows. Whether it's only reading half the field. Not waiting enough for routes to develop and better options to get open. Not avoiding pressure by moving up into the pocket. Or just getting sloppy with his footwork and throwing off his back foot.

 

Can these be corrected? Of course. However, I don't think we're going to see these things get polished up until after the season is over and EJ has another off season to go over all the tape again and really work on these issues.

 

The talent is there. Unfortunately for us fans, more patience might be needed before we see a real return on the investment.

 

Bangarang, I appreciate all the time you took with this, I'm not sure I agree with the assessments.

 

As BrooklynBills noted, in the first play you capture, there appears to be a LB in the passing lane and a CB zone coverage while Stevie is 1 on 1 with a CB. A throw to the apparently wide-open in space Chandler would likely result in a tipped ball by the LB, even an INT>

 

In the 2nd play, just above and to the left of the two arrows you draw, Colin Brown (74) has allowed his defender to beat him - when a OLman has his back to the LOS, it's never good. Think about the leverage Brown has vice the defender if Manuel steps up. Brown has none. as you can see from the next shot where the defender has broken past Brown, directly into the space Manuel would have occupied as he stepped up, and don't think a QB in his sights wouldn't have made the guy rev it up v. Brown either.

 

In the 3rd play, look at Lee and Graham's head positions. They aren't expecting the ball - whatever route they're running it's not done yet, or they expect they're completely out of the play as receivers. If EJ threw to that side it would bounce off the side of their helmets. It almost looks to me like one option on that play was a run, and they're looking for the runner's location so they can throw a block but Freddy (?) has stayed in to block. Or there was miscommunication on the play.

 

The 4th play is a fair point. Manuel has time to set and throw and could buy himself more by moving a bit in the pocket. It was plain and simple bad throw.

 

Just my viewpoint and again, appreciate the time you put into this, just disagree on 2 out of 4 and pointing out the 3rd, Smith and Graham aren't positioned as expecting the ball at that point.

 

Any rookie will require patience.

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Thanks for doing all this, and I don't doubt what you are saying.

 

But it looked to me like EJ was having his best game as a Bill to this point. His passes were pretty accurate and we were moving the ball and scoring points.

 

The only thing that concerns me about him now is it appears at this point he is injury riddled. Some guys are and some guys aren't. EJ is, Jake Locker is, Kolb is. Fitz is not. In 3 1/2 season he only missed 1 game due to injury. Joe Flacco is not. Russell Wilson is not. Brett Favre was not either.

 

This can change. Rex Grossman was injury riddled his first couple of seasons but then seemed to got over it. Hopefully EJ gets over it too. But 2 knee injuries in 7 games is a bad start.

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The only thing that concerns me about him now is it appears at this point he is injury riddled. Some guys are and some guys aren't. EJ is, Jake Locker is, Kolb is. Fitz is not. In 3 1/2 season he only missed 1 game due to injury. Joe Flacco is not. Russell Wilson is not. Brett Favre was not either.

 

This can change. Rex Grossman was injury riddled his first couple of seasons but then seemed to got over it. Hopefully EJ gets over it too. But 2 knee injuries in 7 games is a bad start.

 

I think one has to look at what the injuries are. EJ now has a (probably) torn meniscus in his left knee and a LCL sprain in his right, both while running. It's not like he's tender from getting sacked or hit or anything (and by the way, he is taking a lot of hits - check it out - almost leading the league there :thumbdown: )

 

I used to see deer by the side of the highway in the dawn and think "oh, how pretty, a deer!". Then we hit one. Now I see a deer and think "BRAKE!"

 

EJ sees the goalline and thinks "Goalline in sight! Touchdown!" Now that he's hurt both knees, he needs to reorient his thinking and think "SLIDE!!!!!!!"

 

Will he? It's on him. It's in his control.

 

If he doesn't, the Bills had better carry 3 QB and they'd better be servicable-to-good QB.

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You hv to be kidding me

 

No QB likes to be pressured but they can either handle it or they can't and I'm pretty sure Brady can handle it

Not kidding. He is still still scared of pressure, after 13 years and being in 5 SBs. Can he handle it? His OL can. But when he has too? Nope.
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Conclusion? EJ makes some really nice throws and does some really good things. But, his inexperience really shows. Whether it's only reading half the field. Not waiting enough for routes to develop and better options to get open. Not avoiding pressure by moving up into the pocket. Or just getting sloppy with his footwork and throwing off his back foot.

 

Can these be corrected? Of course. However, I don't think we're going to see these things get polished up until after the season is over and EJ has another off season to go over all the tape again and really work on these issues.

 

The talent is there. Unfortunately for us fans, more patience might be needed before we see a real return on the investment.

 

For a 1st round pick, 16th overall, only so much patience should be required.

 

The team should have waited until round 2 to try to get Manuel and gone another route while biding their time for this year's predictable QB bonanza, at least relatively speaking. But that's water under the dam.

 

As to your criticisms, those are the things that the better analyses on Manuel said that explained why he was a reach at 16th overall. They are correctable, but more often than not QBs with those flaws do not correct them. Those are not "polishing up" issues, those are glaring issues.

 

When we factor in the other thing that many Draft analysts mentioned, and what we've seen rear its head here, namely his inaccuracy issues, these are more problems than one expects from a 16th overall.

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For a 1st round pick, 16th overall, only so much patience should be required.

 

The team should have waited until round 2 to try to get Manuel and gone another route while biding their time for this year's predictable QB bonanza, at least relatively speaking. But that's water under the dam.

 

As to your criticisms, those are the things that the better analyses on Manuel said that explained why he was a reach at 16th overall. They are correctable, but more often than not QBs with those flaws do not correct them. Those are not "polishing up" issues, those are glaring issues.

 

When we factor in the other thing that many Draft analysts mentioned, and what we've seen rear its head here, namely his inaccuracy issues, these are more problems than one expects from a 16th overall.

 

He's played 4 and a half games so far... and stop with the "they could have gotten him in round 2", you don't know that so stop referring to it like he would have been there.

 

I completely disagree that we should expect more because he was a first round pick... a few years ago it was believed the best thing for rookie QBs to do was sit and learn from a vet for a year and then play..

 

Go watch Russel Wilson last year, you see the same things, he got better as the season went on and was really playing well late.

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With this injury I think it likely that we won't know what we have with EJ by season's end. The biggest thing we needed this season was a pretty sure sense that EJ could be our guy moving forward. His performance was definitely hurt by the first knee injury and it will certainly be impacted when he returns for this one. We've seen some good stuff, but enough not so good stuff to have legitimate concerns about his ability to develop into a franchise QB.

 

Yes, he's a rookie, and a rookie with significant missed time. So we aren't ready to throw him into the scrap heap with JP, Trent, RJ, etc. But we also cannot declare him a legitimate long-term answer at QB yet. The problems that the OP and other football people here have diagnosed are probably correctable, but honestly the footwork issues scare me. They probably can be corrected, but we are all just hoping that they will be.

 

And I am guessing that this injury means we won't be any closer to knowing what we have with EJ at season's end, either.

 

kj

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Great job by the OP; thanks.

 

 

Brady is also scared of pressure.

Brady isn't afraid of pressure; he just knows that sacks are essentially turnover (on downs) plays. He's smart that way.

 

I don't understand all of this. Can't people just watch the game for entertainment? Does everybody have to dissect and critique every play of every game and then report it?

Um, you're on a hardcore fan message board ...

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A much bigger problem for EJ: He is injury prone.

Phil Simms, first four years, separated shoulder, torn knee ligament and compound fracture of thumb on his throwing hand.

 

Phil Simms, two time Pro Bowl selection, two Super Bowl rings and Super Bowl MVP.

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For a 1st round pick, 16th overall, only so much patience should be required.

 

The team should have waited until round 2 to try to get Manuel and gone another route while biding their time for this year's predictable QB bonanza, at least relatively speaking. But that's water under the dam.

 

As to your criticisms, those are the things that the better analyses on Manuel said that explained why he was a reach at 16th overall. They are correctable, but more often than not QBs with those flaws do not correct them. Those are not "polishing up" issues, those are glaring issues.

 

When we factor in the other thing that many Draft analysts mentioned, and what we've seen rear its head here, namely his inaccuracy issues, these are more problems than one expects from a 16th overall.

 

Good post. Also, great analysis by the OP! :thumbsup: His was a "cream of the TBD crop"-type post.

 

The issues that you and he pointed out are exactly the ones raised by draft analysts. If a QB is weak in a certain area in college, he usually doesn't correct that weakenss as a professional. In Manuel's defense, rookie QBs often struggle with reading defenses or going to their second or third read--even rookie QBs destined to become strong in those areas later in their careers. Even if Manuel does not correct the issues the OP described during his rookie season, there's still a chance they'll be corrected eventually.

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