hondo in seattle Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I personally didn't have any problems with the final series. But the series before that bugged me. I think we burned up only about a minute of the clock without making a real attempt to get the first down. Good teams play to win. If we get a drive going that possession, we win the game - even if we don't score. Instead we call predictable, conservative plays that go nowhere and then give the ball back to the Ravens with something like 2:40 left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I personally didn't have any problems with the final series. But the series before that bugged me. I think we burned up only about a minute of the clock without making a real attempt to get the first down. Good teams play to win. If we get a drive going that possession, we win the game - even if we don't score. Instead we call predictable, conservative plays that go nowhere and then give the ball back to the Ravens with something like 2:40 left. that might also have been part of the "uh oh, are we getting to conservative" feelings in my gut on the final kneeldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The right tactic could have been to intentionally hold the defenders coming in to touch the QB down, therefor running extra time off the clock. Whether the 10 yard penalty was accepted or not, they would have then been able to kneel down normally or even do the same play again. Otherwise, there was about an 8 second difference and they would have had to punt. Also, coach Marrone said they were planning on throwing a pass out of bounds on 4th down (assuming only 3 or 4 seconds left). The intentional holding tactic would have been ironic, because Baltimore used the same tactic in the Superbowl win on the intentional safety play. They were able to run off 8 seconds or so. It was very obvious, but holding was not called on that play. For the Bills, the tactics could have been a touch better, but how it played out worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I know everyone is looking at EJ getting hit on the last play but watch Choice get ripped down also. Highly doubt they would have called that but it was a dirty play also. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9745035/cj-spiller-fred-jackson-buffalo-bills-injured-vs-baltimore-ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Pessimist: We even suck at victory formations! Optimist: We actually had a chance to do a victory formation against the Superbowl champs. Bottom line, we didn't blow a close lead, and won from behind two weeks ago. It's a new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) According to Marrone in the presser, they were not going to punt on 4th down. Given the time remaining, they calculated that for each delayed kneel-down, they would burn 5-7 seconds off the clock. Combined with the Baltimore TOs, there would only be about 5 seconds left on 4th down. Again, according to Marrone, the plan was to "throw it out of bounds" on 4th down. I suspect he meant to have EJ drop back and heave a long pass well out of bounds (we know he's good at that after watching the Jets game). That would burn the last 5 seconds off the clock and they wouldn't have to worry about a bad snap or blocked kick or bad punt or big return on a punt play. I really like that they were calculating this stuff at the end of the game. It shows they are doing the math and playing the odds better than we've seen in recent years. Edited September 30, 2013 by BisonMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 A) how many games everyweek do you see a RB plunge into the pile with 2 hands on the football. B) If you are worried about a RB fumbling when they know the key is to hold on to the ball, you are too scared to be in this league. This is a common play. It is not that difficult. C) I have no problem with the kneel down, I just think the Bills got lucky. The QB is fair game there and I have seen worse hits not called. You must be blind - Did you not just see Fred fumble the ball in a big pile, minutes before that... While a common play, why even risk it - it doesn't make any sense... and scared? They ran well the entire game it isn't about being tough at that point... it is about closing the game out with the lowest possible risk... Which you apparently just don't understand. They run the ball there and fumble, you would be calling for Marone's head on a stake for not playing smart there and kneeling down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 While a common play, why even risk it . Is it more risky than a botched long snap to the punter, a punt block, or a return? I don't have the stats but it's worth raising the question. The reason people are asking about it is because it was different than the norm. Perhaps the norm is wrong - but when someone does something different I see nothing wrong with questioning it. Hell, I see nothing wrong with questioning the norm for that matter. And I love the people in this thread who equate questioning with "complaining." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 A Penalty or Fumble during any of these KeyStone Cop plays and you risk giving the Ball to the Ravens with field position to score. And you saw how they were calling "Holding" on any ticky tacky call. A penalty or fumble on any of the run plays (instead of kneel downs) runs the risk of giving the ball to the Ravens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Is it more risky than a botched long snap to the punter, a punt block, or a return? I don't have the stats but it's worth raising the question. The reason people are asking about it is because it was different than the norm. Perhaps the norm is wrong - but when someone does something different I see nothing wrong with questioning it. Hell, I see nothing wrong with questioning the norm for that matter. And I love the people in this thread who equate questioning with "complaining." You run 3 times and get stuffed, you still punt the ball.. I don't see your point. And yes it is complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 According to Marrone in the presser, they were not going to punt on 4th down. Given the time remaining, they calculated that for each delayed kneel-down, they would burn 5-7 seconds off the clock. Combined with the Baltimore TOs, there would only be about 5 seconds left on 4th down. Again, according to Marrone, the plan was to "throw it out of bounds" on 4th down. I suspect he meant to have EJ drop back and heave a long pass well out of bounds (we know he's good at that after watching the Jets game). That would burn the last 5 seconds off the clock and they wouldn't have to worry about a bad snap or blocked kick or bad punt or big return on a punt play. I really like that they were calculating this stuff at the end of the game. It shows they are doing the math and playing the odds better than we've seen in recent years. Heard this mentioned on WGR this morning. It also sounded like they had this all worked out ahead of time in a chart, which is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You run 3 times and get stuffed, you still punt the ball.. I don't see your point. And yes it is complaining. You run three times and pick up a first down you win the game. It says something that a first down never occurred to you... According to Marrone in the presser, they were not going to punt on 4th down. Given the time remaining, they calculated that for each delayed kneel-down, they would burn 5-7 seconds off the clock. Combined with the Baltimore TOs, there would only be about 5 seconds left on 4th down. Again, according to Marrone, the plan was to "throw it out of bounds" on 4th down. I suspect he meant to have EJ drop back and heave a long pass well out of bounds (we know he's good at that after watching the Jets game). That would burn the last 5 seconds off the clock and they wouldn't have to worry about a bad snap or blocked kick or bad punt or big return on a punt play. I really like that they were calculating this stuff at the end of the game. It shows they are doing the math and playing the odds better than we've seen in recent years. And this is the answer I was looking for. Not a bad strategy, good thing there are reporters out there "complaining" to the coaching staff...errr, I mean asking questions about game situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You run three times and pick up a first down you win the game. It says something that a first down never occurred to you... And this is the answer I was looking for. Not a bad strategy, good thing there are reporters out there "complaining" to the coaching staff...errr, I mean asking questions about game situations. Again, the D is going to tee off vs the run and the chance of picking up a first down is slim, especially in that situation and not worth the risk of a turnover.. You still fail to realize that. I'm done with this thread btw. Carry on complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You run three times and pick up a first down you win the game. It says something that a first down never occurred to you... Did you forget that both Spiller and Lynch were hurt? There is 0 chance we pick up a first down on a run at that point. They had 9 in the box. You have a better chance of a fumble than a first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 A QB should also not be tap dancing in the back field taking his sweet ass time doing a kneel down. If his helmet doesn't come off, which I don't think Suggs did intentionally (I don't think he touched his head), then it's not called a penalty. Bills got lucky. Should have ran the ball, even with the oh so scary possibility of fumbling. Good teams finish off other teams. They don't do gimmicky plays with faux kneel downs in the backfield risking gettin you QB injured. Marrone said after the game, the plan was to keep the ball on 4th down and have EJ run around and then throw it out of bounds. Even if he gets sacked, the clock doesn't stop so B'more would never have gotten the O on the field in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Even if he gets sacked, the clock doesn't stop so B'more would never have gotten the O on the field in time. This is not true, the clock stops on a change of possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catskillbill Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 1978 Miricle in the Medowlands, that's why. Am i and this poster the only ones old enough to remember Joe Pisarcik? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_at_the_Meadowlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Did you forget that both Spiller and Lynch were hurt? There is 0 chance we pick up a first down on a run at that point. They had 9 in the box. You have a better chance of a fumble than a first down. A) Um What? B) Choice is no slouch, he probably has the best Ball security on the team. Your 0 chance is again an opinion. C) You cannot prove the probability of a fumble V a first down. That is your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 A) Um What? B) Choice is no slouch, he probably has the best Ball security on the team. Your 0 chance is again an opinion. C) You cannot prove the probability of a fumble V a first down. That is your opinion. A) Lol. Meant Spiller and Jackson. Not lynch. B) Not saying Choice is a slouch. But ANYONE is a slouch when youre rushing against 9 in the box. C) I'm not saying he WOULD fumble. I'm saying, there is little to no chance of a 1st down and there is little chance of a fumble. There about equal. Barry Sanders would'nt have gotten a first down in that situation. They had 9 in the freaking box. You can't block them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Why all the hoop-a-la with the kneel down? Why was EJ even trying to draw it out. Didn't we have 45 seconds on the clock with two downs to go? Maybe I missed something? Did you ever hear of the Miracle of the Meadowlands. Giants were killing the clock against the Eagles and had the game sewn up. Giants QB Joe Pisarcek (sp) and RB Larry Czonka muff the hand-off exchange, the ball is loose, Herman Edwards scoops it up and takes it in for a TD - Eagles win! That play was the genesis of the "Victory" formation where you will see someone in the backfield approximately 10 yds behind the QB - in case there's a fumble. Although it seemed like we knelt down 10x, the Bills were doing it right. A punt snap could go bad, Powell wans't having his best game, a block? Too many things could go wrong. Minimize the chance of errors, 1 exchange per play - Wood - EJ, kill a few extra seconds, take a knee. Heck, if it got to 4th down - a safety may have been the best call - killing the remaining time and ensuring no FG or TD. No problem here withthe coach's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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