Would You Rather Have Mario Or Byrd?

[T master]

With the rotations that will be going on with this new defense, I am starting to think that Byrd is going to play a more important role. It just stinks that with all these seemingly positive changes going on, the Bills may not be able to hold on to one of their VERY few superstars. Although I still think Mario has a lot to offer, I am beginning to wish that that deal never happened (if it meant choosing one or the other.)

 

Anyway, I am loving the direction this team is heading and the excitement of the players surrounding it. Win or lose this year, things are looking up and the week one game against the Pats is gonna be a hell of a place to be

 

I don't know that Mario is as much of a factor as the fact that they screwed the team by jumping way to fast & giving Fitz the contract that they did .

 

Now that they have to absorb the Fitz contract on next years cap that is what is really screwing up the works, not just as far as Byrd but could prove trouble next year in keeping others that have their contracts coming up.

 

Not to mention what would happen say if CJ rushes for over 2K this year & he decides he has out played his contract & decides to hold out for a new contract what then. The Fitz contract again comes into play !!

 

So i think there is more to it than Mario , i believe past mistakes could come back to haunt the Bills . The only saving grace might be is if something like that does happen they can cut veterans like Freddy J , B Smith & others that may have a chunk of money that they can save by cutting them ...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think the point of the OP is that both players are still in their primes so I'm not sure why you're bringing into the discussion comparing people in their primes with people past their primes.

 

Is your point that Williams is past his prime?

 

No. In my first post i reluctantly chose Mario, because of the lack of depth behind him, compared to our young(ry) talent at safety.

 

But I was responding to a post about how a Probowl DE is >>>>> a Probowl safety.

 

Point is, since when was Mario a probowl DE?

 

Look at the bolded in both of our posts.

 

In answer to your question, Mario actually made the Pro Bowl in 2010 as a reserve. In 2009 he was a starter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pro_Bowl#Defense

 

The following season (2011) he had 5 sacks in 5 games before tearing his pectoral muscle and missing the remainder of the season.

 

Last season he 10.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles on one of the league's worst and most poorly-coached defenses.

 

Mario has played in two recent Pro Bowls and based on his last two seasons, is still playing at a similar level.

 

So I don't see the point of you bringing Dwight Freeney and Richard Seymour into the conversation.

 

The OP was asking for a choice between two players still in their primes, Mario and Byrd.

 

Freeney and Seymour are both clearly past their primes and in fact, Seymour isn't even in the league.

[maddenboy]

Do you know how anything about football? Mmm'k, pull up a chair and follow along.

 

An elite level DE can change the game with more of an impact then an elite level FS can. An elite SS can change the game even more, due to his ability to play the run and the pass and become, basically another LB but more versatile. The FS is just the ball hawk who is smart enough to not let anyone behind him.

 

An entire defensive package, scheme, plan, everything can be based off of the DE. Haven't you noticed the defenses are named 4-3, 3-4, 4-4, Nickel and Dime? The nickel and dime is adding more Safeties and CB's. You can have a Dwight Freeney to just go in hard. You can have a Chris Kelsay who sets the edge. You can have a variety of DE's that can do a variety of things, but when you have a DE who is elite he can shift to the 3-4 OLB/DE.

 

I'm too lazy to get in to it now, and I doubt you care, but I will gladly type 1,000 word essay on this...no joke.

 

Sir, I chose Mario.

 

I was simply responding to a poster who said he preferred Mario, on the rationale that an ALL-PRO DE was >>>>> an ALL PRO safety.

 

While I still chose mario, I was pointing out that his argument was inapt, since Mario hasnt been an ALL PRO for quite some time, while BYRD was an ALL PRO last year. He is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Carry on, sir.

 

Look at the bolded in both of our posts.

 

In answer to your question, Mario actually made the Pro Bowl in 2010 as a reserve. In 2009 he was a starter.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ro_Bowl#Defense

 

The following season (2011) he had 5 sacks in 5 games before tearing his pectoral muscle and missing the remainder of the season.

 

Last season he 10.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles on one of the league's worst and most poorly-coached defenses.

 

Mario has played in two recent Pro Bowls and based on his last two seasons, is still playing at a similar level.

 

So I don't see the point of you bringing Dwight Freeney and Richard Seymour into the conversation.

 

The OP was asking for a choice between two players still in their primes, Mario and Byrd.

 

Freeney and Seymour are both clearly past their primes and in fact, Seymour isn't even in the league.

 

Respectfully, I wasnt replying to the OP. In response to the OP, I chose Mario.

 

I think the terms "all pro" and "pro bowl" are too often used interchangeably. They are not. All-pro >>> pro bowl. Because pro bowlers often decline, and the 4th alternate becomes a pro bowler.

 

And yes, I think Mario is past his prime. He is on a plateau. We need to watch for when the decline starts. Byrd is on the rise. And yet, for reasons stated, I still choose Mario.

Edited July 12, 2013 by maddenboy

[San Jose Bills Fan]

All-pro DE >>>> All-pro S

 

You sure about that? Are you sure an all-pro DE 3-4 years ago is >>> an all-pro safety today?

 

Is Dwight Freeney >>> Jairus Byrd?

 

Is Richard Seymour >>> Dashon Golston (49ers) or Earl Thomas (seattle)?

 

Which would you rather have, RIGHT NOW?

 

I think the point of the OP is that both players are still in their primes so I'm not sure why you're bringing into the discussion comparing people in their primes with people past their primes.

 

Is your point that Williams is past his prime?

 

No. In my first post i reluctantly chose Mario, because of the lack of depth behind him, compared to our young(ry) talent at safety.

 

But I was responding to a post about how a Probowl DE is >>>>> a Probowl safety.

 

Point is, since when was Mario a probowl DE?

 

Look at the bolded in both of our posts.

 

In answer to your question, Mario actually made the Pro Bowl in 2010 as a reserve. In 2009 he was a starter.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ro_Bowl#Defense

 

The following season (2011) he had 5 sacks in 5 games before tearing his pectoral muscle and missing the remainder of the season.

 

Last season he 10.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles on one of the league's worst and most poorly-coached defenses.

 

Mario has played in two recent Pro Bowls and based on his last two seasons, is still playing at a similar level.

 

So I don't see the point of you bringing Dwight Freeney and Richard Seymour into the conversation.

 

The OP was asking for a choice between two players still in their primes, Mario and Byrd.

 

Freeney and Seymour are both clearly past their primes and in fact, Seymour isn't even in the league.

 

Respectfully, I wasnt replying to the OP. In response to the OP, I chose Mario.

 

I think the terms "all pro" and "pro bowl" are too often used interchangeably. They are not. All-pro >>> pro bowl. Because pro bowlers often decline, and the 4th alternate becomes a pro bowler.

 

And yes, I think Mario is past his prime. He is on a plateau. We need to watch for when the decline starts. Byrd is on the rise. And yet, for reasons stated, I still choose Mario.

 

You don't have to tell me who you were replying to. I can read.

 

I asked you if you thought Mario was past his prime. You said no. Now you're saying yes.

 

You asked how many Pro Bowls he made. I told you and then you said that Pro Bowls don't mean anything. If that's how you feel, why did you ask?

 

And honestly you're talking out both sides of your mouth. You say you chose Mario but you're arguing against him. You're saying that he's over the hill and compares to Freeney and Seymour. If you believe that why on earth would you pick him ahead of Byrd?

 

I'm sorry but you're not making much sense.

Edited July 12, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[mead107]

Mario , Byrd can be replaced.

[Mr. WEO]

Do you know how anything about football? Mmm'k, pull up a chair and follow along.

 

An elite level DE can change the game with more of an impact then an elite level FS can. An elite SS can change the game even more, due to his ability to play the run and the pass and become, basically another LB but more versatile. The FS is just the ball hawk who is smart enough to not let anyone behind him.

 

An entire defensive package, scheme, plan, everything can be based off of the DE. Haven't you noticed the defenses are named 4-3, 3-4, 4-4, Nickel and Dime? The nickel and dime is adding more Safeties and CB's. You can have a Dwight Freeney to just go in hard. You can have a Chris Kelsay who sets the edge. You can have a variety of DE's that can do a variety of things, but when you have a DE who is elite he can shift to the 3-4 OLB/DE.

 

I'm too lazy to get in to it now, and I doubt you care, but I will gladly type 1,000 word essay on this...no joke.

 

I would agree, but MArio wasn't an elite DE last year. He was absent the first 5 games and fizzled the last 5 games. So your argument about the effects of an "elite DE" lose steam when discussing what we actually got from Mario last year. Good, but far from elite.

[....lybob]

Byrd was better at his position than Mario was at his position last year but I value DE over FS by quite a bit so Mario

[eball]

APPARENTLY THE "MALE RACE' CANT USE THE ACRONYM LOL. WELL NOW THAT I KNOW IM SURE ILL COME OFF A LITTLE MORE MACHO, LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't know about the macho part, but you could STOP SCREAMING AT US LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[maddenboy]

You don't have to tell me who you were replying to. I can read.

 

I asked you if you thought Mario was past his prime. You said no. Now you're saying yes.

 

You asked how many Pro Bowls he made. I told you and then you said that Pro Bowls don't mean anything. If that's how you feel, why did you ask?

 

And honestly you're talking out both sides of your mouth. You say you chose Mario but you're arguing against him. You're saying that he's over the hill and compares to Freeney and Seymour. If you believe that why on earth would you pick him ahead of Byrd?

 

I'm sorry but you're not making much sense.

 

I dont think he's past his prime. He is in his prime, near the end of it. "on a plateau" is what I said.

 

I didnt ask how many pro bowls. I suggested that he hasnt been an all-pro for a while, so when the Poster said "all pro DE >>>>> all pro Safety," my point was that Mario isnt an all pro DE, while Byrd IS an all pro Safety, so its apples to oranges.

 

And my stated rationale for still picking Mario is that we dont have as much behind him as we do behind Byrd, so the loss of Mario would affect us more.

 

I'll concede that sometimes my thoughts appear (and maybe are) a bit scattered, but I do try to be clear and succinct.

 

I chose Mario over Byrd, if I have to choose.

Edited July 12, 2013 by maddenboy

[thebandit27]

Mario by a lot

[Webster Guy]

I agree on the revisionist history crap.

Who is your first DC?

I also take Mario, he impacts runs as well as passes. The guy commands respect. Just when teams started thinking they could get away with single teaming him, his production climbed. The guy is and will be a 10+ sack guy for the next 4 years.

Byrd is good, but he is more of an opportunist type of FS. Reed made plays in his heyday. Byrd benefits usually from poor throws. And i do not see Byrd being anything special when it comes to run stopping. I like Byrd and wish he could come back for fair market value. Unfortunately Whaley and Parker can not agree on that number quite yet.

I totally agree. There are some posts on here that are glorifying Byrd like he is more than a pretty good FS. I have watched every snap that dude has ever played, and he's nowhere near an elite free safety. That crap that Joe Buscalia was printing about WPA averages had Byrd 3 times higher than Polamalu. Its laughable. I say just pay him the one year deal and see how he does in this defense. See if he's worth the money first, don't guess that he is.

 

If he goes I think Aaron Williams will step in and kick ass.

 

As to the original OP's question, I would take Mario Williams for sure. He might be inconsistent but he's disruptive and intimidating out there. I like that.

[kickedface]

both!

[Dorkington]

If Mario plays at the level he played at after he had his wrist worked on, then I'd rather keep Mario.

 

Byrd is really good, don't get me wrong, but I think Mario has a bigger effect on our defense.

[K-9]

I totally agree. There are some posts on here that are glorifying Byrd like he is more than a pretty good FS. I have watched every snap that dude has ever played, and he's nowhere near an elite free safety. That crap that Joe Buscalia was printing about WPA averages had Byrd 3 times higher than Polamalu. Its laughable. I say just pay him the one year deal and see how he does in this defense. See if he's worth the money first, don't guess that he is.

 

If he goes I think Aaron Williams will step in and kick ass.

 

As to the original OP's question, I would take Mario Williams for sure. He might be inconsistent but he's disruptive and intimidating out there. I like that.

 

Good post. With all due respect to the advanced stat folks out there, they are simply out of their depth when it comes to qualifying football players, especially on the defensive side of things.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Max997]

With the rotations that will be going on with this new defense, I am starting to think that Byrd is going to play a more important role. It just stinks that with all these seemingly positive changes going on, the Bills may not be able to hold on to one of their VERY few superstars. Although I still think Mario has a lot to offer, I am beginning to wish that that deal never happened (if it meant choosing one or the other.)

 

Anyway, I am loving the direction this team is heading and the excitement of the players surrounding it. Win or lose this year, things are looking up and the week one game against the Pats is gonna be a hell of a place to be

 

Bills have more then enough money under the cap so Mario's deal has no effect on signing Byrd long term. I don't get why ppl keep trying to come up with ways to resign Byrd or reasons why they can't.

 

It appears Byrd wants to be paid like other recently signed safety's but Bills are not willing to go that high

 

But if I had to choose it would be Mario or a top DE over Byrd or a top safety every time

[NishP]

Don't know about the macho part, but you could STOP SCREAMING AT US LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have to have caps lock on while at work so i kinda just roll with it..... I was gonna put "lol" after that sentence but decided against it.

[Mr. WEO]

If Mario plays at the level he played at after he had his wrist worked on, then I'd rather keep Mario.

 

Byrd is really good, don't get me wrong, but I think Mario has a bigger effect on our defense.

 

In his last 5 games, Mario had 2 sacks and 10 tackles. He was part of a D line that gave up 270 rushing yards to Seattle and 182 to the Dolphins.

[Dorkington]

In his last 5 games, Mario had 2 sacks and 10 tackles. He was part of a D line that gave up 270 rushing yards to Seattle and 182 to the Dolphins.

Curious.

 

Why are you quoting just those 5 games?

[BuffaloBaumer]

Curious.

 

Why are you quoting just those 5 games?

 

Because the question was how he played after his wrist was supposedly healed....

[Dorkington]

Because the question was how he played after his wrist was supposedly healed....

 

I thought he had his procedure after week 7...

 

Games 8-16, he had 7 sacks, but the last two weeks of the season he had zero. Focusing on a period of time with those last couple games weighted heavily doesn't make much logical sense to me. Hell, if that's the case, can't I just choose a few bad games that Byrd had to reason why Mario is "better"? Fact is, Mario played pretty well after the bye week, but had a couple bad games. All football players have a couple bad games, even when they are healthy.