Would You Rather Have Mario Or Byrd?

[K-9]

Mario Williams played his position consistently better than ANY OTHER PLAYER ON DEFENSE, INCLUDING BYRD, last season. Granted, that's not saying a lot when we're talking about a unit as functionally and statistically poor as our defense last season, but it's the truth. To the naive viewpoint that the only measurement of MW's effectiveness is the number of sacks he had, I can only say that is a non-informed position. By that same logic, I can say that the only time Byrd was effective was when he caused a turnover. What is that, about nine plays all year? It's just absurd to rate a player based on gross stats alone.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[CodeMonkey]

JJ Watt

+1

 

I'd trade Mario and his super sized salary along with Byrd for Watt.

Edited July 12, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[Mr. WEO]

I agree on the revisionist history crap.

Who is your first DC?

I also take Mario, he impacts runs as well as passes. The guy commands respect. Just when teams started thinking they could get away with single teaming him, his production climbed. The guy is and will be a 10+ sack guy for the next 4 years.

 

The following season (2011) he had 5 sacks in 5 games before tearing his pectoral muscle and missing the remainder of the season.

 

Last season he 10.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles on one of the league's worst and most poorly-coached defenses.

 

 

To the naive viewpoint that the only measurement of MW's effectiveness is the number of sacks he had, I can only say that is a non-informed position. GO BILLS!!!

 

Right on! These guys who pick Mario are being incredibly naive.

 

I thought he had his procedure after week 7...

 

Games 8-16, he had 7 sacks, but the last two weeks of the season he had zero. Focusing on a period of time with those last couple games weighted heavily doesn't make much logical sense to me. Hell, if that's the case, can't I just choose a few bad games that Byrd had to reason why Mario is "better"? Fact is, Mario played pretty well after the bye week, but had a couple bad games. All football players have a couple bad games, even when they are healthy.

 

My point was that his last 5 games weren't more productive than his first 5--it was a response to the claim that he got better later in the season. You can't pick a period in the middle and leave out the last 5 weeks of the season to demonstrate how great he was playing after his procedure.

[K-9]

Right on! These guys who pick Mario are being incredibly naive.

 

I'm not surprised the larger picture is lost on you.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

 

 

I thought he had his procedure after week 7...

 

Games 8-16, he had 7 sacks, but the last two weeks of the season he had zero. Focusing on a period of time with those last couple games weighted heavily doesn't make much logical sense to me. Hell, if that's the case, can't I just choose a few bad games that Byrd had to reason why Mario is "better"? Fact is, Mario played pretty well after the bye week, but had a couple bad games. All football players have a couple bad games, even when they are healthy.

 

and i hate to say it... after youve been eliminated a guy with an injury, and frustrating season may have swapped to stay healthy mode in the last week.

 

the biggest game down the stretch was the colts game and he played big in it. ill give him big credit on that.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Dick LeBeau, who just might be the greatest DC ever. I'd also put Mike Zimmer up there too.

 

I think Watt is a really good player but he is playing in one of the best defensive systems for a pass rush. Mario played in one if the worst. I guarantee Watt would see his production fall of in 90% of other teams.

Ah yes LeBeau. I keep wishing the Bills had some how kept him here. I know he wanted to return to Pitt. But gosh he is a genius.

I like Zimmer, but really like Nolan with the falcons more. Nolan did more with less then i think anyone did last year. the Falcons D has very few play makers on it. Heck i would say the Bills have way more. Funny how a great QB can make almost any D player expendable?

[3rdand12]

and i hate to say it... after youve been eliminated a guy with an injury, and frustrating season may have swapped to stay healthy mode in the last week.

 

the biggest game down the stretch was the colts game and he played big in it. ill give him big credit on that.

well you should consider that the Cardinals and the Colts gave up a lot of pressures from everyone.

DE is a much more important POSITION than Safety some will say, okay most. And I can agree .

But M Williams was not double teamed or chipped much. He was helped by Dareus and K Williams and had an occasional coverage sack.

I thought he played as well as anyone who could start at DE for the Bills last year. Say Carrington ?

and healthy for the last 3 games but nothing to show. He quit and was saving his health.

Not what the brochures claimed by any means

[BADOLBILZ]

EASY MARIO, STUPID QUESTION LOL.

 

HE HAS THE OPPURTUNITY TO DISRUPT EVERY PLAY WEATHER IT BE A PASS OR A RUN!

 

Yes to this. Mario is far more valuable than Byrd because of that.

 

But by the same token he also makes a whole lot more than Byrd is going to get so it's not really an apples to apples choice anyway. They shouldn't have to choose though. They should be able to get a deal done with Byrd that will allow them to get out of the deal with limited impact in a few years if Byrd tanks/declines/gets injured.

[Thurmal34]

the biggest game down the stretch was the colts game and he played big in it. ill give him big credit on that.

 

Post of the thread. That was the game of the year at the time for Buff. Had the Bills won that one, they would have been in the driver's seat for a berth. Williams was a force in that game.

[3rdand12]

Post of the thread. That was the game of the year at the time for Buff. Had the Bills won that one, they would have been in the driver's seat for a berth. Williams was a force in that game.

So we are thinking he turned it up a couple notches ?

lets look at some other players in that game.

 

Dont make me pull out my NFL rewind Mister !

 

So we are thinking he turned it up a couple notches ?

lets look at some other players in that game.

 

Dont make me pull out my NFL rewind Mister !

mostly because i forgot where i put it .

But i'm intrigued now so i will have to dig a bit. I am open minded. just not very much.

[Malazan]

The theory that safetys are now more important than pass rushers because it is a 'passing league' is silly. As the league becomes more pass happy, that means you don't just need one dominant pass rusher, but 2 or 3. A good pass rush still makes the secondary better.

[NoSaint]

So we are thinking he turned it up a couple notches ?

lets look at some other players in that game.

 

Dont make me pull out my NFL rewind Mister !

 

mostly because i forgot where i put it .

But i'm intrigued now so i will have to dig a bit. I am open minded. just not very much.

 

He made some big plays and if I recall had sacks on 3rd downs which are big drive stoppers. I didnt analyze deeply but he seemed to have a real impact. 3 sacks and a pass deflection.

[RealityCheck]

Judging by how bad the defense was with both of these guys, I really don't want to chose between the two regardless of who the DC is. Byrd is likely to play for the Bills one way or the other as it is. The contract situation is far more of a big deal to him than anyone else, but the longer he holds out from group football activities, the greater the probability of him getting injured when he returns. If he waits to long to come back and mesh with the system he is at risk of diminishing his value. Pettine's scheme requires safeties to play free and strong responsibilities, Byrd is doing what is right for himself, but it is not without a new set of risks. Mario and Byrd are both likely to be on the field in September, one way or the other. Go Bills!

[3rdand12]

The theory that safetys are now more important than pass rushers because it is a 'passing league' is silly. As the league becomes more pass happy, that means you don't just need one dominant pass rusher, but 2 or 3. A good pass rush still makes the secondary better.

well my friend that is an interesting point. consider that Byrd was never rotated out. He had the most snaps on the team i think maybe Gilmore was next

and if it takes two players to be effective at say RE that means Byrd is even more valueable doesnt it ?

We rotated Searcy and Wilson

 

He made some big plays and if I recall had sacks on 3rd downs which are big drive stoppers. I didnt analyze deeply but he seemed to have a real impact. 3 sacks and a pass deflection.

sir you are really going to make me look aren't you ?

fair enough.

But can i submit that .. it was one game ? and not a fair sample of his overall play throughout the season ?

 

You are correct he had a darned good game and played as we all hoped he would. Considering he is a 96 trillion dollar fan appeaser.

I was one of them. But i was stoked for choke choke Wannstache too : (

[NoSaint]

well my friend that is an interesting point. consider that Byrd was never rotated out. He had the most snaps on the team i think maybe Gilmore was next

and if it takes two players to be effective at say RE that means Byrd is even more valueable doesnt it ?

We rotated Searcy and Wilson

 

Call me when safeties get paid pass rusher dollars. Until then, the nfl disagrees. Even ok rushers get paid like great safeties.

[3rdand12]

Judging by how bad the defense was with both of these guys, I really don't want to chose between the two regardless of who the DC is. Byrd is likely to play for the Bills one way or the other as it is. The contract situation is far more of a big deal to him than anyone else, but the longer he holds out from group football activities, the greater the probability of him getting injured when he returns. If he waits to long to come back and mesh with the system he is at risk of diminishing his value. Pettine's scheme requires safeties to play free and strong responsibilities, Byrd is doing what is right for himself, but it is not without a new set of risks. Mario and Byrd are both likely to be on the field in September, one way or the other. Go Bills!

I hope you are right

go bills

Edited July 12, 2013 by 3rdand12

[K-9]

well my friend that is an interesting point. consider that Byrd was never rotated out. He had the most snaps on the team i think maybe Gilmore was next

and if it takes two players to be effective at say RE that means Byrd is even more valueable doesnt it ?

We rotated Searcy and Wilson

 

3rd, you are way off on this. The sheer energy expended each play by a DE vs. a FS is night and day. Free safeties have a day at the beach back there in comparison to the salt mines that DLmen are working on a play to play basis. That doesn't mean they all don't take a play off, they do.

 

The mere fact that a free safety plays yards off the LOS is proof enough of the relative importance of the positions in terms of impact on the game on a play by play basis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

Call me when safeties get paid pass rusher dollars. Until then, the nfl disagrees. Even ok rushers get paid like great safeties.

Okay . You mean like M. Andersen who has done nothing at all for the Bils and little before that

i kid.

I understand your point

But you maybe do not mine. Thats on me. I ramble, etc etcetc etc.

Byrd was a MUCH better safety last year than Williams was a rush end.

although Mario did do some very nice containment and kept plays inside stayed disciplined to his role very well. Sometimes he actually chased the ball carrier if the play was away from his side

And i have given the Defense a bit of a pass all around after last years debacle if only to make myself feel better

 

One thing he does bring is respect.

Even though Willams couldn't get it done the first game of the year with what appeared to be an easy overmatch , i will bet the farm that plays were called for chipping him double teaming and going away from "his " side of the field .

 

I am not reflecting on the position i am speaking of the quality of play last year. I dont recall each game vivdly but i sure as hell was watching Mario.

Also No Saint. you dont need to prove me wrong.

It's just my opinion brother.

As i said i dont care for the player M. Williams . and i didnt start out biased besides the koolaid i keep in the fridge.

 

And lastly and more importantly. I expect a whole hell of a lot better play from Mario Williams this year in Mike defense.

 

But i was really hoping i could expect Byrd to do the same.

Both key players for some serious success in my thinking .

sorry i carry on but love my bills, brother

 

3rd, you are way off on this. The sheer energy expended each play by a DE vs. a FS is night and day. Free safeties have a day at the beach back there in comparison to the salt mines that DLmen are working on a play to play basis. That doesn't mean they all don't take a play off, they do.

 

The mere fact that a free safety plays yards off the LOS is proof enough of the relative importance of the positions in terms of impact on the game on a play by play basis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

again K-9 i am just speaking about the individual players not the position.

That comment was a bit for fun .

But isnt the most important player the last line of defense?

That what the free safety does mostly.

I know you know this and its a weak argument but just for fun.

 

for me its byrd vs williams and how they played last year.

Thats not what the OP asked and i have started a sidebar i guess.

My apologies to all for that.

It is a team sport of course.

[You herd it hear last]

a byrd in the hand is worth 2 marios in the bush...or something like that...

 

but yeah, Mario is better and more impactful given both playing at their best.

[3rdand12]

a byrd in the hand is worth 2 marios in the bush...or something like that...

 

but yeah, Mario is better and more impactful given both playing at their best.

yep exactly