Family of evicted fan sue local government agencies

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Oh come on man...you can't be blatantly provocative like that if you have no intention of sharing

 

It's a bad habit of his…

 

He wants people to know that he can keep a secret… and at the same time torture us with it.

 

[mrags]

 

 

It's a bad habit of his…

 

He wants people to know that he can keep a secret… and at the same time torture us with it.

 

lol you got me. All the sudden I'm the popular one on here.

 

Someone talk Simon to remove all my warning points and ill think about it. Lol.

[NoSaint]

lol you got me. All the sudden I'm the popular one on here.

 

Someone talk Simon to remove all my warning points and ill think about it. Lol.

 

It's not like you won't have them back by the end of the week. You won't even know why you got them back Go for it Simon!

[mrags]

 

 

It's not like you won't have them back by the end of the week. You won't even know why you got them back Go for it Simon!

lol. Well doney friend, well done.

[bigK14094]

At the risk of being flippant, should this suit come forward, the Town of Orchard Park and Erie County might well adopt a policy that those though to be inebriated should spend the night in the local lockup. Then nobody drowns. Get two paddy wagons, and shuttle them to a nearby jail, where they can sleep it off. Of course, they may need to turn a local college dormatory into that jail based on the crowd I have seen. But, certain folks are falling down drunk, and, I guess, could be protected from themselves. (really BIg Brother nanny state stuff) there must be a local statute against public drunkness......if not, they just might enact one.

Edited June 22, 2013 by bigK14094

[Kkspike]

Where is the lawsuit against the brother who did not leave the game?

the brother is only worth $26,000 so leave him outta this.i would go for Erie and the state of New York for not having life guards on duty on all creeks,rivers and streams with in a 200 mile radius.let alone no signs in Spanish or madrin Chinese,witch makes this blanted racism and follow the guide lines of a hate crime.so show me the money I rest my case.

[RevWarRifleman]

It is a shame that such a young man died, but it was as a result of his own poor judgement. Sorry, but take some personal responsibility. If he was at the gamr with family members as was stated, why did one of them not step up and take care of this young man. The death was very sad, the lawsuit just as sad.

Good point. Responsibility. He was ejected from the game at half time, and died around 1AM. How is it Erie County's responsibility to take care of him?

[sodbuster]

It all depends on whether or not he was served in the stadium. To the courts, not to me. As closed minded as this sounds, I've already made up my mind, unless it comes out that the dude was roofied or something else like that happened. I seem to manage to make it back to the car alive after each game... so far.

[ExiledInIllinois]

A few things:

 

-They do have holding cells

 

-the security staff (many of them) are off duty law enforcement. Sheriffs, corrections officers, police and many of them have the ability, and have arrested many drunk fans. (Inside information)

 

-the drunk tanks are completely overflowing in Sundays.

 

-this family may have a case die to the (if an intoxicated person was served at xxx establishment and then hurt himself or others) argument.

 

But this case makes me sick. The fact that the family is trying to sue the Bills is a joke.

 

If I recall, the guy was a Dolphins' fan. They MAY have treated him differently? I am not saying they did... BUT MAY have. That would be a very big problem. That is, do they take care of the home town crowd better than the other teams' fans? Ouch...

 

Let's see how it plays out.

 

Added to that Saint, there is absolutely no way he was sober. He was kicked out for drunken stupidity. That's about all I'd like to say about it in here.

 

Again, Dolphins fan standard of stupidity or Bills fan standard for stupidity. Throw an obnoxious opponent's fan in the tank w/the rest of the beligerant Bills drunks... Trouble in the tank. Send him on his merry way, thinkinig you are cutting him some slack (and saving security a headache... They have their own bad fans to worry about)... May not be a good idea.

 

If it is found they treated him differently, the one's being sued MAY be in deep doo doo.

Edited June 22, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[NoSaint]

Again, Dolphins fan standard of stupidity or Bills fan standard for stupidity. Throw an obnoxious opponent's fan in the tank w/the rest of the beligerant Bills drunks... Trouble in the tank. Send him on his merry way, thinkinig you are cutting him some slack (and saving security a headache... They have their own bad fans to worry about)... May not be a good idea.

 

If it is found they treated him differently, the one's being sued MAY be in deep doo doo.

 

Between the family not meeting him when called, the assertion by them he wasn't even drinking really, and the 3 hour gap the lawsuit is going to be TOUGH at best, but I can definitely see scenarios where there is a fair reason to have the debate and possibly hold people responsible for their (lack of) actions

[mrags]

I really don't want to add anymore Exiled. And I realize that my opinions based on the inside information that I will not speak about here are looked upon as crazy. I really don't want to break my buddies trust, especially publicly. If we ever meet personally and have a few beers, that might be a different story, but for now, I'm keeping quiet.

 

Regardless of how this thing tirns out, Just don't believe everything you hear is all I can say.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I am just saying... In a real world scenario... You got drunk home fans and drunk opponent fans. I can see them NOT wanting to throw a drunk opponent fan into the drunk tank that is loaded with home sharks. Maybe they thought they were cutting him some slack by tossin' him out into the world...

 

Just saying. Trying to be pragmatic here. If they broke protocol and left him fend for himself where they would not normally let home fans fend for themselves... They may be in trouble.

 

Think about it mrags... You don't have to respond, I know you want to distance yourself from the discussion. What kinda of problems would there be if you toss an opponent's fan into the home crowd tank? You are a corrections officer, would you want that kind of headache? I can see them cutting this guy loose into the world just to save a security headache. Unfortunately, it backfired.

 

Isn't this (drunk Bills fans v. drunk Dolphins fans) what got him into trouble (and tossed) in the first place. If he was a Bills fan, he MAY have never been tossed. The standard @ home is much lower.

Edited June 22, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[mrags]

I understand your point. It defenately makes sense. But I just don't see it going down that way. Without knowing personally, I doubt they care. They might think about it for a minute, but in the end, it doesn't matter. If someone gets his @$$ kicked in the tank, well, then maybe they shouldn't have done anything so stupid to be put in there in the first place.

 

As to why he wasnt detained, arrested, held is beyond me. I never got that out of my buddy. As far as I can tell, the stories that I've heard from him, is that there's so many drunk idiots on Sundays that's there's absolutely no way deal with all of them. If someone is a problem, you kick them out and off the property and don't look back. That's about the only answer that I have for that. I've said before yet nobody believed me that Bills games have more arrests, fights, and issues than any other stadium in the league. This is all from my buddy who has personally arrested drunks, fighters, scalpers, illegal merchandise vendors, etc...

 

I believe the kid was from the Elmira area from what I remember and not that he couldn't be a Phins fan but is there any proof to that?

Edited June 22, 2013 by mrags

[sodbuster]

I understand your point. It defenately makes sense. But I just don't see it going down that way. Without knowing personally, I doubt they care. They might think about it for a minute, but in the end, it doesn't matter. If someone gets his @$$ kicked in the tank, well, then maybe they shouldn't have done anything so stupid to be put in there in the first place.

 

As to why he wasnt detained, arrested, held is beyond me. I never got that out of my buddy. As far as I can tell, the stories that I've heard from him, is that there's so many drunk idiots on Sundays that's there's absolutely no way deal with all of them. If someone is a problem, you kick them out and off the property and don't look back. That's about the only answer that I have for that. I've said before yet nobody believed me that Bills games have more arrests, fights, and issues than any other stadium in the league. This is all from my buddy who has personally arrested drunks, fighters, scalpers, illegal merchandise vendors, etc...

 

I believe the kid was from the Elmira area from what I remember and not that he couldn't be a Phins fan but is there any proof to that?

Palmyra area, and yes, fins fan.

 

Is the interesting part that he was actually killed by Aaron Hernandez? The pats did have that day off...

[mrags]

Palmyra area, and yes, fins fan.

 

Is the interesting part that he was actually killed by Aaron Hernandez? The pats did have that day off...

your on to something. The Hoodies latest way to cheat other teams. Have someone murdered at a Bills game so that the organization gets sued, loses money, and tailgating rules are changed so that the road game doesn't feel so much like a road game.

[Doc]

If the family truly said "he wasn't that drunk," their suit is toast.

[mrags]

If the family truly said "he wasn't that drunk," their suit is toast.

either that or the family drinks entirely too much.

[Doc]

either that or the family drinks entirely too much.

Without knowing their BACs at the time, it's all speculative and subjective. A family member saying "he wasn't that drunk" holds much more whiskey, er, water than, say, someone from the Bills.

 

And he was with it enough to phone his bro after being ejected, and told him he'd meet him at a bar. But 3 hours later he drowns at the creek and the Bills/Erie County are liable? Yeah, okay.

[NoSaint]

 

Without knowing their BACs at the time, it's all speculative and subjective. A family member saying "he wasn't that drunk" holds much more whiskey, er, water than, say, someone from the Bills.

 

And he was with it enough to phone his bro after being ejected, and told him he'd meet him at a bar. But 3 hours later he drowns at the creek and the Bills/Erie County are liable? Yeah, okay.

 

Here's a quick piece from the original day after thread. Brother says he didnt think he was out of control and father says he can't imagine he had more than a couple beers cause he had work in the morning (I'd assume dad talked to brother who was with him before that statement)

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121117/CITYANDREGION/121119251/1002

Edited June 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[Doc]

Here's a quick piece from the original day after thread. Brother says he didnt think he was out of control and father says he can't imagine he had more than a couple beers cause he had work in the morning (I'd assume dad talked to brother who was with him before that statement)

 

http://www.buffalone.../121119251/1002

Thanks for that.

 

And although he may have had a couple of beers, he was not intoxicated, his family said

 

And how was his body found southeast of the stadium, in the opposite direction from the tavern north of the stadium where he arranged to meet his brother and friend?

 

Even after Gerken was ejected, he sounded under control while talking to his younger brother on a cellphone, his father said

 

“He said to his brother, ‘You stay at the game, I’ll walk over to Tailgaters, and you meet me at the end of the game,’ ” his father said.

 

“Why would he go down that way?” his father asked. “Why would he go over the fence or around the fence? There’s no reason for him to go there. I don’t know why he wound up where he was found. Your guess is as good as mine.”

 

There goes that case.

[mrags]

 

 

Here's a quick piece from the original day after thread. Brother says he didnt think he was out of control and father says he can't imagine he had more than a couple beers cause he had work in the morning (I'd assume dad talked to brother who was with him before that statement)

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121117/CITYANDREGION/121119251/1002

much of it is there. A few things to ponder:

 

Q) When your a younger kid, and your team is playing in a Primetime game, did you usually get wasted?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) when you were a young kid, would you often stay up late, often drinking or doing god knows what, even though you have to work in the morning?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) When you were younger, going out and partying all the time, were you informing your parents what a crazy partier you were?

 

A) Honestly, I pretty much told my parents everything. I had an older sister that paved the pathway for me, but I can tell you than not a single one of my friends would ever tell their parents what we were up to.

 

And here's the best one of all and the one that rally puts a wrench into the story:

Q) why is it that the police and officials couldn't find the boys body even though its in their own backyard, but this kids father comes all the way from Elmira (or wherever he came from) and happens to find his sons body before anyone else?

 

[Corp000085]

Should I sue? Unless someone was negligent in offering this choad a drink, everything should rest.

 

 

Ira Hayes. Ira Hayes. Call him drunken Ira Hayes...

[NoSaint]

much of it is there. A few things to ponder:

 

Q) When your a younger kid, and your team is playing in a Primetime game, did you usually get wasted?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) when you were a young kid, would you often stay up late, often drinking or doing god knows what, even though you have to work in the morning?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) When you were younger, going out and partying all the time, were you informing your parents what a crazy partier you were?

 

A) Honestly, I pretty much told my parents everything. I had an older sister that paved the pathway for me, but I can tell you than not a single one of my friends would ever tell their parents what we were up to.

 

And here's the best one of all and the one that rally puts a wrench into the story:

Q) why is it that the police and officials couldn't find the boys body even though its in their own backyard, but this kids father comes all the way from Elmira (or wherever he came from) and happens to find his sons body before anyone else?

 

Short feedback, I was primarily speaking to it shooting holes in their current filings.

 

In reality, I don't doubt he was drinking a good bit. When searching for a missing person I think I'd abandon the lie, personally, but could imagine someone sticking to it thinking he went home with a girl or something. Let him cover for himself when he wakes up. Once found though.... Well....

 

Wasnt it reported dad found him from cell pings, or something? I assumed it was a basic phone finder app or something but remember more questions than answers at the time.

 

Truly, I feel like I'm seeing all your points but not reading between the lines well. It seems your implying both that the dad was tipped off to what happened but there was still lying going on about the alcohol which seems a bit contradictory, though not impossible. If tipped to his location, I'm really curious what really happened.

 

No need to get explicit though. I know your trying to keep it close to the vest still

Edited June 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[bbb]

much of it is there. A few things to ponder:

 

Q) When your a younger kid, and your team is playing in a Primetime game, did you usually get wasted?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) when you were a young kid, would you often stay up late, often drinking or doing god knows what, even though you have to work in the morning?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) When you were younger, going out and partying all the time, were you informing your parents what a crazy partier you were?

 

A) Honestly, I pretty much told my parents everything. I had an older sister that paved the pathway for me, but I can tell you than not a single one of my friends would ever tell their parents what we were up to.

 

And here's the best one of all and the one that rally puts a wrench into the story:

Q) why is it that the police and officials couldn't find the boys body even though its in their own backyard, but this kids father comes all the way from Elmira (or wherever he came from) and happens to find his sons body before anyone else?

 

My answers are Yes, Yes, like you Yes for sure............And, that one is such a mystery.

[KollegeStudnet]

We are all just a bunch monkeys on an organic spaceship floating around the universe....who just happen to drink beer and watch Bills games.

Edited June 22, 2013 by KollegeStudnet

[BuffaloBob]

This is going to be a lot of nothing when its all said and done. Some ambulance chaser convinced the family they have a suit.

Yeah, that ambulance chaser who was solicited by the family. Stop blaming the lawyers for lawsuits, blame the people who seek them out and hire them.

[Doc]

And here's the best one of all and the one that rally puts a wrench into the story:

Q) why is it that the police and officials couldn't find the boys body even though its in their own backyard, but this kids father comes all the way from Elmira (or wherever he came from) and happens to find his sons body before anyone else?

The implication is that since the area was searched without finding him, but the father was able to, that the father somehow found him outside the search area, took him to the stadium and dumped him over the fence, near the creek, without anyone seeing him do it. I can buy a lot of stuff, but not that. The autopsy report would show something to suggest that.

Yeah, that ambulance chaser who was solicited by the family. Stop blaming the lawyers for lawsuits, blame the people who seek them out and hire them.

The lawyers seek them out. Whether by phone calls or advertisements. I heard stories of people not necessarily wanting to sue being goaded into it by lawyers.

[BuffaloBob]

 

The lawyers seek them out. Whether by phone calls or advertisements. I heard stories of people not necessarily wanting to sue being goaded into it by lawyers.

 

Lawyers directly contacting potential clients is illegal and cause for disbarrment. Not saying it never happens, but they police that stuff pretty seriously and will suspend or disbar for it and no lawyer wants that.

 

By advertisement? So what? Doesn't mean you need to go hire them.

 

And being goaded into it? You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Oh they told me I could win money. I HAD to do it! They held me at gunpoint and made me sign the representation agreement! Please.

 

Bottom line is, there is no lawsuit without a Plaintiff willing to hire the lawyer to sue on their behalf. Just becuase there's always a laywer willing to do it doen't make it the lawyer's fault.

[NoSaint]

 

The implication is that since the area was searched without finding him, but the father was able to, that the father somehow found him outside the search area, took him to the stadium and dumped him over the fence, near the creek, without anyone seeing him do it. I can buy a lot of stuff, but not that. The autopsy report would show something to suggest that.

 

The lawyers seek them out. Whether by phone calls or advertisements. I heard stories of people not necessarily wanting to sue being goaded into it by lawyers.

 

That would be a very tough one to believe - I think so tough that its why my head didnt even begin to go there lastnight

Edited June 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[mrags]

 

The implication is that since the area was searched without finding him, but the father was able to, that the father somehow found him outside the search area, took him to the stadium and dumped him over the fence, near the creek, without anyone seeing him do it. I can buy a lot of stuff, but not that. The autopsy report would show something to suggest that.

 

no. That wasnt the implication.

[Doc]

Lawyers directly contacting potential clients is illegal and cause for disbarrment. Not saying it never happens, but they police that stuff pretty seriously and will suspend or disbar for it and no lawyer wants that.

 

By advertisement? So what? Doesn't mean you need to go hire them.

 

And being goaded into it? You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Oh they told me I could win money. I HAD to do it! They held me at gunpoint and made me sign the representation agreement! Please.

 

Bottom line is, there is no lawsuit without a Plaintiff willing to hire the lawyer to sue on their behalf. Just becuase there's always a laywer willing to do it doen't make it the lawyer's fault.

Actually, there would be no lawsuit without a lawyer willing to take the case. The lawyer is the gate-keeper. A person can want to sue for anything, but that doesn't mean it has to go anywhere, unless he/she wants to represent him/herself.

no. That wasnt the implication.

Then I have no idea what you were getting at. Spill it!

[NoSaint]

 

Actually, there would be no lawsuit without a lawyer willing to take the case. The lawyer is the gate-keeper. A person can want to sue for anything, but that doesn't mean it has to go anywhere, unless he/she wants to represent him/herself.

 

Then I have no idea what you were getting at. Spill it!

 

The only thing I could get was lil bro (or someone close) was aware of what happened and left him there but told dad where he was. Otherwise, baffled.

 

 

Mrags will share as he sees fit. Ill leave it in his court though I am curious.

[Jgoose22]

much of it is there. A few things to ponder:

 

Q) When your a younger kid, and your team is playing in a Primetime game, did you usually get wasted?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) when you were a young kid, would you often stay up late, often drinking or doing god knows what, even though you have to work in the morning?

 

A) I sure know I did when I was younger.

 

 

Q) When you were younger, going out and partying all the time, were you informing your parents what a crazy partier you were?

 

A) Honestly, I pretty much told my parents everything. I had an older sister that paved the pathway for me, but I can tell you than not a single one of my friends would ever tell their parents what we were up to.

 

And here's the best one of all and the one that rally puts a wrench into the story:

Q) why is it that the police and officials couldn't find the boys body even though its in their own backyard, but this kids father comes all the way from Elmira (or wherever he came from) and happens to find his sons body before anyone else?

 

 

 

Valid points to many but there has to be more fans like my friends and I. We had season tickets from "76" until the late "90's" (I moved to Fla in "89" but my friends kept the tickets). We loved going to the games even when the Bills stunk. we would meet at a friends house drive to the stadium park at the hot stand across from the stadium. Once there our grills would come out and the tailgating began, we always cooked steak, eggs and home fries with peppers an onions going in a pan. Yes, we enjoyed ice cold beer, Bloody Mary's and various other libations. We weren't there to get hammered we were there to enjoy the camaraderie and of course the game... Once finished with breakfast would we cook up Italian sausage for sandwiches and bring them into the game (at that time you were allowed to bring bags in) along with other snacks. Did we catch a buzz we sure did but we never got to the point of over indulgence where we didn't enjoy the football game... We couldn't stand the drunks that were rude and obnoxious, you just knew that they were there solely to get blasted....

[Doc]

The only thing I could get was lil bro (or someone close) was aware of what happened and left him there but told dad where he was. Otherwise, baffled.

That doesn't really add much to the story though since there's nothing nefarious about it. I'm thinking the kid somehow caused his own demise and the father planted him near the stadium so as to be able to sue the Bills/Erie County.

[NoSaint]

 

That doesn't really add much to the story though since there's nothing nefarious about it. I'm thinking the kid somehow caused his own demise and the father planted him near the stadium so as to be able to sue the Bills/Erie County.

 

Leaving someone you are with injured, or dead, over night in a stream in November while rescuers searched for them, then turning around to sue for them sending him off on his own would be a pretty good twist.

 

And he already said no on your theory. So I'm not sure what else he could be getting at.

Edited June 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[BuffaloBob]

 

Actually, there would be no lawsuit without a lawyer willing to take the case. The lawyer is the gate-keeper. A person can want to sue for anything, but that doesn't mean it has to go anywhere, unless he/she wants to represent him/herself.

 

Absolute nonesense! It is NOT the lawyer's job to be the gate-keeper for clients. In fact, it may well turn out in any case that there was some wrong that is ultimately righted, and most times as a laywer you may not even know that until you get into discovery.

 

If every lawyer was required to make some sort of morality judgment before taking a case, justice would often not be served. Take the shady guy accused of murder. If every lawyer decided not to represent him because of a shady past and thus a question as to his guilt, how does he get justice if he is in fact innocent of the charges.

 

There are all kinds of services provided for people that may not be a good idea under the circumstances, but if the client wants to purchase the services, so be it. Stop making excuses for the greedy idiots who try to scam the system by hiring a lawyer.

 

And by the way it is quite often that a lawyer ends up trying to steer the client in the most constructive direction. In the case of the lawyer who took this particular case, he is not going to take it if he doesn't think he has a chance to be successful, as it is no doubt a contingent fee. Lawyers don't like wasting their time for no compensation.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Here we are again talking about a subject (lawyer-client dynamics) as if it's a black and white issue when in fact, it isn't.

 

There are impressionable, clueless people who don't know what they're doing and what they should do.

 

There are aggressive, unscrupulous lawyers who see everything in terms of dollar signs.

 

There are competent, principled people who would reject the notion of suing others based on their own beliefs about personal responsibility.

 

And there are ethical lawyers who don't attempt to chase ambulances solely for money.

 

All these types of people (and their variations) exist and interact in our world.

[HurlyBurly51]

The family is disgusting, bottom of the barrel, scum. Trying to profit off their sons death - a special place in hell for them.

[HelloNewman]

I am sorry for the family for what happened. Drunk or not; nobody deserves to die from drowning. That being said let me point something out I think we are all missing on....the family has filed a notice of claim to let Erie county know they MIGHT sue. If someone is going to sue the government on any level they need to let them know regardless if they sue or not within a certain time frame. If they miss that time frame or do not file the notice they are out of luck and it will get thrown out on a technicality in court. They filed a notice to buy them time (2 years) to think about what to do. This does not mean they are going to pursue a lawsuit against the county as of right now. They are following the proper procedure if they decide to sue. So as of right now there is NO LAWSUIT. For the record I do not think they should sue; he got drunk; he got thrown out; his fault; end of story.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't know anything about the law really, no more than the average person anyways.

 

The family has not filed a suit yet. They have filed a "notice of claim" which apparently is the first step towards filing a lawsuit.

 

Based on what little we know and also the comments family members made in the aftermath of the death, the family doesn't seem to have a very strong case for suing.

 

I wonder if there was a deadline for filing a notice of claim they were advised to meet so that they could keep all of their options open.

 

I also wonder if they were advised to do this as an opening overture directed towards the implied plaintiffs to prompt a modest settlement.

 

I am sorry for the family for what happened. Drunk or not; nobody deserves to die from drowning. That being said let me point something out I think we are all missing on....the family has filed a notice of claim to let Erie county know they MIGHT sue. If someone is going to sue the government on any level they need to let them know regardless if they sue or not within a certain time frame. If they miss that time frame or do not file the notice they are out of luck and it will get thrown out on a technicality in court. They filed a notice to buy them time (2 years) to think about what to do. This does not mean they are going to pursue a lawsuit against the county as of right now. They are following the proper procedure if they decide to sue. So as of right now there is NO LAWSUIT. For the record I do not think they should sue; he got drunk; he got thrown out; his fault; end of story.

 

LOL.

 

We were thinking along similar lines.