ESPN 30 for 30: Elway to Marino

[Kelly the Dog]

Yeah, you're probably right that people were more spooked by Marino's poor senior year more than the drug rumors. Still, a big armed QB on a national power -- I think he'd have been a high pick in 2013.

 

And yes, definitely the baseball angle gave Elway the leverage he needed -- and made it a much more compelling story. Bo Jackson did the same (and picked baseball), though he seemed to prefer baseball all along so it wasn't that big a deal when he didn't go to the Bucs. I'm not so sure Elway doesn't sit out a year if football is his only option; his old man was pretty stubborn.

Yep. Agree all around. That was such a great little doc and the intrigue was phenomenal. Demoff was an amazing story in and of itself. The league stuff was fascinating and I believe it and I'm not a conspiracy buff at all as you know. The talent outside of those QBs, as if you could ignore them, was phenomenal. Even the Gabe Rivera story.

 

Football literally ruined Bo Jackson. He should have played baseball only.

Maybe. But why would you not want to do that if you were him. I was not a big Deion Sanders fan (although I thought he was great), but I used to love that he played in an NFL game, got on a plane and then played a baseball game. That was amazing. Why would you not want to do that if you could?

[KD in CA]

Yep. Agree all around. That was such a great little doc and the intrigue was phenomenal. Demoff was an amazing story in and of itself. The league stuff was fascinating and I believe it and I'm not a conspiracy buff at all as you know. The talent outside of those QBs, as if you could ignore them, was phenomenal. Even the Gabe Rivera story.

 

That whole Al Davis v. Rozelle fued/lawsuit was another big deal people forget from the early 80s. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the league had killed the Howie Long deal that was needed for the Raiders to get Elway. I had forgotten all about Rivera.

 

And it was fun to see the sparse draft setting compared to today's circus.

 

Football literally ruined Bo Jackson. He should have played baseball only.

In hindsight, sure. But seriously, have you ever seen a more talented RB? He could have re-written the record books if he hadn't been hurt.

[26CornerBlitz]

That whole Al Davis v. Rozelle fued/lawsuit was another big deal people forget from the early 80s. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the league had killed the Howie Long deal that was needed for the Raiders to get Elway. I had forgotten all about Rivera.

 

And it was fun to see the sparse draft setting compared to today's circus.

 

 

In hindsight, sure. But seriously, have you ever seen a more talented RB? He could have re-written the record books if he hadn't been hurt.

 

There was nothing but hatred between Rozelle/The NFL and Davis/The Raiders so it's not shocking to hear of the trade being squashed.

 

Was always so much tension seeing Rozelle hand over the Lombardi to Al Davis when the Raiders won Super Bowls.

 

The speed and power combination of Bo Jackson was simply unbelievable. Would have been the GOAT w/o the tragic injury IMO.

[dave mcbride]

That whole Al Davis v. Rozelle fued/lawsuit was another big deal people forget from the early 80s. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the league had killed the Howie Long deal that was needed for the Raiders to get Elway. I had forgotten all about Rivera.

 

And it was fun to see the sparse draft setting compared to today's circus.

 

 

In hindsight, sure. But seriously, have you ever seen a more talented RB? He could have re-written the record books if he hadn't been hurt.

 

He was great, no doubt, but he was a good baseball player too. I don't understand why anyone would choose football over baseball all things being equal. Your career is a lot shorter, the money isn't as good (or even guaranteed), and baseball is more fun to play (in my opinion!!).

[DrDawkinstein]

I just watched a rerun of the Cosby Show from 1986, I am not pissed that they didn't talk about the K-gun.

 

 

Some people are too stupid to watch television.

 

HAHAHA, Im glad I came back to this thread for these quotes alone. Well played.

 

Also, Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete of all time, and would have been the best RB in NFL history if not for the injury. My one sports hero from childhood that wasnt a Bill.

[Chandler#81]

 

That whole Al Davis v. Rozelle fued/lawsuit was another big deal people forget from the early 80s. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the league had killed the Howie Long deal that was needed for the Raiders to get Elway. I had forgotten all about Rivera.

 

And it was fun to see the sparse draft setting compared to today's circus.

 

 

In hindsight, sure. But seriously, have you ever seen a more talented RB? He could have re-written the record books if he hadn't been hurt.

 

I recall being very scared of the Raiders in the AFC title game from the '90 season. Yes, they were coming to our place cuz we beat them in a Sunday Night thriller in Oct, but Bo was an unstoppable force, which made Schader look competent. I didn't realize the magnitude of the injury VS Cinci in the Div Round, so I was just happy we didn't have to play against him..

 

Hard to judge players from different eras, Jim Thorpe et al, but Bo was the best I've seen.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Yeah, I probably wasn't very clear in my first two posts so let me put it another way:

 

 

 

KELLY OWNED ELWAY AND MARINO.

 

 

Thanks.

[BrooklynBills]

Indeed they are.

 

Kelly's teams' record when he started: 63 percent winning percentage.

Marino's teams' record when he started: 61 percent.

 

Kelly's completion pct and QB rating - 60.1 percent and 84.4

Marino's completion pct and QB rating - 59.4 and 86.4

 

Kelly's YPA: 7.4

Marino's YPA: 7.3

 

Kelly's INT pct: 3.7

Marino's INT pct: 3.0

 

Kelly's TD pct: 5.0

Marino's TD pct: 5.0

 

Marino's advanced passer rating (PFW): 113

Kelly's advanced passer rating (PFW): 111

 

I'm not going to compare postseason records because Marino was a good postseason QB who happened to be plagued by a lot of bad Miami defenses.

 

Good stat research. Marino, Elway, and Kelly were very comparable players during their careers, the big difference was that Marino and Elway played 6 more NFL seasons which does boost them up the All-Time QB list. Marino and Elway have a signifiant edge as well in NFL accolades as well. Both Elway and Marino were each named league MVP once, and made 1st or 2nd All-Pro teams. Kelly never was named to an All-Pro team. During their careers, I think it was widely thought that all 3 were great QBs, but that Kelly was on the best team, Marino was the best passer, and Elway was the best all-around player. Also, you can't deny Elway's 2 Super Bowl rings and the records that Marino put up during a time when the passing game was not what it was today. And ultimately Super Bowls and records play a big part in determining where QBs rank on a list.

 

On a side note: I thought one of the most interesting pieces of the documentary was when they were talking to Norm Pollom about the Bills taking Kelly. He said that they took Tony Hunter because they had Kelly and Marino rated very equally and knew they would get one of them with their next pick(they had picks 12 and 14). I just thought it very interesting that one of the biggest Bills villains of all time was kind of almost a Bill.

[WannabeGM]

On a side note: I thought one of the most interesting pieces of the documentary was when they were talking to Norm Pollom about the Bills taking Kelly. He said that they took Tony Hunter because they had Kelly and Marino rated very equally and knew they would get one of them with their next pick(they had picks 12 and 14). I just thought it very interesting that one of the biggest Bills villains of all time was kind of almost a Bill.

 

I thought this was the most interesting part of the show. The second part was how much the Patriots were in love with Kelly, and how the NE coach didn't want Eason. Never knew either of these things.

[26CornerBlitz]

I thought this was the most interesting part of the show. The second part was how much the Patriots were in love with Kelly, and how the NE coach didn't want Eason. Never knew either of these things.

 

Definitely enjoyed hearing from so many NFL insiders from that era. Was a very enjoyable look back.

[BrooklynBills]

I thought this was the most interesting part of the show. The second part was how much the Patriots were in love with Kelly, and how the NE coach didn't want Eason. Never knew either of these things.

 

Ron Meyer had nothing but bad things to say about Tony Eason. He was pretty rough on him even after all these years which I thought was strange considering he was not a terrible QB and had a few decent seasons in NE. I mean they interviewed Todd Blackledge who is clearly the worst of the group.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ron Meyer had nothing but bad things to say about Tony Eason. He was pretty rough on him even after all these years which I thought was strange considering he was not a terrible QB and had a few decent seasons in NE. I mean they interviewed Todd Blackledge who is clearly the worst of the group.

yeah, that was fascinating to me too. What I took from it, although I don't know, is that Ron Meyer was a bitter prick and blames Eason, who was pretty decent, and took them to the Super Bowl, for Meyer not being (he thinks) in the Hall of Fame.

[benderbender]

You are wrong on so many counts here. Do you think Jim Kelly wouldn't trade his 0-4 Super Bowl record, for Elways' 2-3 record?

I was actually making a reference to how you see more of Elways gums in that documentary than the entirety of Geena Davis' acting career. But all bad jokes aside, I thought the documentary was well done. The agent's side of the story gave more perspective about what the climate was in the NFL at the time than just a simple interview with the players.

[BrooklynBills]

yeah, that was fascinating to me too. What I took from it, although I don't know, is that Ron Meyer was a bitter prick and blames Eason, who was pretty decent, and took them to the Super Bowl, for Meyer not being (he thinks) in the Hall of Fame.

 

yeah. the fact is that meyer was a good coach who couldn't stick with a team very long. It's funny how he basically rips the NE GM for taking Tony Eason saying that he had no input in the decision and he ends up getting bounced from the NFL basically for trading up to take Jeff George in the 1990 draft.

[dave mcbride]

yeah, that was fascinating to me too. What I took from it, although I don't know, is that Ron Meyer was a bitter prick and blames Eason, who was pretty decent, and took them to the Super Bowl, for Meyer not being (he thinks) in the Hall of Fame.

Meyer came across as a real jerk.

[theesir]

Meyer came across as a real jerk.

He was really adament about the fact that he wanted no part of Eason and that the GM basically told him, "opinion noted, now shut up and coach whoever we pick"

[Ramius]

Excellent program. I finally learned why the Bills passed on Kelly at 12, and it all of a sudden it makes a lot of sense. We would have been happy with Kelly or Marino, and 1 would have been available at 14.

 

Of course, the thought of Marino leading the Bills all those years when i was growing up is rather vomit inducing.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VuhLpvC42E

[bbb]

There was nothing but hatred between Rozelle/The NFL and Davis/The Raiders so it's not shocking to hear of the trade being squashed.

 

Was always so much tension seeing Rozelle hand over the Lombardi to Al Davis when the Raiders won Super Bowls.

 

The speed and power combination of Bo Jackson was simply unbelievable. Would have been the GOAT w/o the tragic injury IMO.

 

I don't think he had the moves of OJ, Barry or Gale Sayers, though.

 

He was great, no doubt, but he was a good baseball player too. I don't understand why anyone would choose football over baseball all things being equal. Your career is a lot shorter, the money isn't as good (or even guaranteed), and baseball is more fun to play (in my opinion!!).

 

I totally agree...........Football eats it's young..........The guaranteed money in baseball, the whole not being maimed for life thing, etc. - it's a no brainer.

 

The odd thing about football is that there have been a number of players that we've seen stay in school when they would be close to or the #1 draft pick - Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Jake Locker, Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, etc..............And, yet - basketball players, much to the detriment of the college game, are almost always one and done now.

 

And, they have a much lesser chance of a bad injury.

[DrDawkinstein]

I don't think he had the moves of OJ, Barry or Gale Sayers, though.

 

Doesnt matter, didnt need them.