thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 This thread is a case study in the extremism that makes this board absolutely brutal at times. You've got one group of people hailing Nassib as the savior, and stating with absolute certainty that the guy will be a top NFL QB immediately. Then you've got another group of people that state with absolute certainty that Nassib cannot possibly succeed in the NFL. Guess what folks...you're all wrong. Yes, wrong. Know why? Because Nassib's NFL career has not been defined yet, and won't be for several years. Even if your side ends up being "correct", it won't be because of anything you think...it'll be because of a heretofore incalculable set of circumstances that combines to shape the player's career. This set of circumstances will include things like: Position coaching Skill level at skill positions surrounding him Quality of OL play Scheme compatibility Quality of the D on the team that drafts him How soon he's forced to start How hard he's willing to work Do early successes/failures affect his confidence? For better or worse? And on and on...please, at least take a moment to consider the fact that you don't know any of this, and to claim that you do is self-aggrandizing, disingenuous, and stupid. So go ahead and make your prediction, but at least do it with some level of circumspection...if for no other reason than to save face if and when you're completely wrong (see the 2011 Cam Newton and Von Miller threads as examples--there are once-highly-thought-of posters that virtually disappeared after those debacles). That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) This thread is a case study in the extremism that makes this board absolutely brutal at times. You've got one group of people hailing Nassib as the savior, and stating with absolute certainty that the guy will be a top NFL QB immediately. Then you've got another group of people that state with absolute certainty that Nassib cannot possibly succeed in the NFL. Guess what folks...you're all wrong. Yes, wrong. Know why? Because Nassib's NFL career has not been defined yet, and won't be for several years. Even if your side ends up being "correct", it won't be because of anything you think...it'll be because of a heretofore incalculable set of circumstances that combines to shape the player's career. This set of circumstances will include things like: Position coaching Skill level at skill positions surrounding him Quality of OL play Scheme compatibility Quality of the D on the team that drafts him How soon he's forced to start How hard he's willing to work Do early successes/failures affect his confidence? For better or worse? And on and on...please, at least take a moment to consider the fact that you don't know any of this, and to claim that you do is self-aggrandizing, disingenuous, and stupid. So go ahead and make your prediction, but at least do it with some level of circumspection...if for no other reason than to save face if and when you're completely wrong (see the 2011 Cam Newton and Von Miller threads as examples--there are once-highly-thought-of posters that virtually disappeared after those debacles). That is all. Brutal why, because you don't like him? Show me one post that says Nassib will be a top NFL QB imediately, one... Edited April 15, 2013 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Brutal why, because you don't like him? Show me one post that says Nassib will be a top NFL QB imediately, one... Well, I'd like to think someone with reading comprehension would've caught the answer when they read my post...just in case though, here's the quote: This thread is a case study in the extremism that makes this board absolutely brutal at times. You've got one group of people hailing Nassib as the savior, and stating with absolute certainty that the guy will be a top NFL QB immediately. Then you've got another group of people that state with absolute certainty that Nassib cannot possibly succeed in the NFL. Guess what folks...you're all wrong. Yes, wrong. Know why? Because Nassib's NFL career has not been defined yet, and won't be for several years. Even if your side ends up being "correct", it won't be because of anything you think...it'll be because of a heretofore incalculable set of circumstances that combines to shape the player's career. Anytime people can't separate their opinions from facts, the quality of the discussion is going to suffer. As for your question, check out your post #263...wherein drafting Nassib results in not having to wait a season or two to win football games. Edited April 15, 2013 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 As for your question, check out your post #263...wherein drafting Nassib results in not having to wait a season or two to win football games. I believe what he's saying is that of all the QBs, because Nassib has a lower learning curve having played in the offense & knowing the terminolgy, he can hit the ground running, whereas other QBs can't. And some of the other QBs have an additional learning curve having only played exclusively out of the shotgun... which means they have footwork issues to deal with as well. Not that they can't pick it up and be good Qbs, but not likely this season... they'would be more of a project... ready in a year or two maybe. The one quality I see in Nassib that I don't see in the others is how quickly he reads, antcipates and gets the ball out of his hand. That's God given reflex action that you can't teach. You either have a quick mind/reflex action or you don't. You can suceed without it, but you better have exceptional physical gifts to do so. Gruden said this about Nassib... “The way he threw the football was as impressive as any guy I’ve seen in this draft,” he said. “He’s very accurate, has excellent touch. He’s gonna be a good player, you watch and see.” That being said, he also told Nassib to work on one particular area of his game. “You’ve got some of the worst slides I’ve ever seen in my life,” he told Nassib. Even still, he lauded the gunslinger’s athletic mobility. He called Nassib a “nuisance runner,” saying that he is “just gonna drive somebody crazy.” So a lot of this slow, not good touch, can't throw long (he heaved it 61 yds. on the QB challenge... Manuel, 66 yds.) is a lot of poo poo. It's the intangeables... he has them and he's the best prepared QB coming out to play for the Bills right away and for years to come. He fits better than the rest with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I believe what he's saying is that of all the QBs, because Nassib has a lower learning curve having played in the offense & knowing the terminolgy, he can hit the ground running, whereas other QBs can't. And some of the other QBs have an additional learning curve having only played exclusively out of the shotgun... which means they have footwork issues to deal with as well. Not that they can't pick it up and be good Qbs, but not likely this season... they'would be more of a project... ready in a year or two maybe. The one quality I see in Nassib that I don't see in the others is how quickly he reads, antcipates and gets the ball out of his hand. That's God given reflex action that you can't teach. You either have a quick mind/reflex action or you don't. You can suceed without it, but you better have exceptional physical gifts to do so. Gruden said this about Nassib... “The way he threw the football was as impressive as any guy I’ve seen in this draft,” he said. “He’s very accurate, has excellent touch. He’s gonna be a good player, you watch and see.” That being said, he also told Nassib to work on one particular area of his game. “You’ve got some of the worst slides I’ve ever seen in my life,” he told Nassib. Even still, he lauded the gunslinger’s athletic mobility. He called Nassib a “nuisance runner,” saying that he is “just gonna drive somebody crazy.” So a lot of this slow, not good touch, can't throw long (he heaved it 61 yds. on the QB challenge... Manuel, 66 yds.) is a lot of poo poo. It's the intangeables... he has them and he's the best prepared QB coming out to play for the Bills right away and for years to come. He fits better than the rest with this team. I think, somehow, folks are missing the spirit of my post at the top of this page. It's not about what you think regarding Nassib, but rather the extremism with which opinions are delivered as though they are absolutes. Anyway, I've said repeatedly that I think Nassib has the potential to be good, and I've also stated what concerns me about him. People have their opinions and that's fine...discuss them. My point is that--if only to save face in the case that they're wrong--it would be wise for folks to temper their extremism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 6th round clip board holder ? gotcha, loud and clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 You've got one group of people hailing Nassib as the savior, and stating with absolute certainty that the guy will be a top NFL QB immediately. Then you've got another group of people that state with absolute certainty that Nassib cannot possibly succeed in the NFL. What do you mean? Absolutes make life just so much easier, don't they. Why think about all sides of an issues when you can just choose one and move on to other things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 What do you mean? Absolutes make life just so much easier, don't they. Why think about all sides of an issues when you can just choose one and move on to other things bludgeon other people with your certainty... Fixed that for you Maddening, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Fixed that for you Maddening, isn't it? I think you're being a little overly-sensitive to these QB debates. I don't really get your argument. So you don't want fans to have strong opinions about the future of the QB position on an NFL team message board? These kind of fans are now deemed as being "extremists"? Really? I find people who ride the fence and give all sides of an argument lame and boring. Good or bad, I want an opinion. Not someone tip toeing around the subject. I suggest that you don't come here on draft day because it probably isn't going to be very pretty. This isn't the Colt or Redskin "slam dunk" Luck or RGIII QB pick situation. Don't ever forget that this is just a message board and you can't take anything too seriously. People are passionate about who they like and don't like by now. That's an ok thing in my book. Edited April 15, 2013 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/15/jon-gruden-likes-ryan-nassib-most-among-2013-qb-class/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hey - on profootballtalk there's an article about Gruden saying he thinks Nassib is the best QB of the bunch this year. That says a lot, to me. Gruden is considered a very good judge of QB talent - at the NFL level. If he says he likes Nassib, that he thinks Nassib can be very successful in this league, I'm going to take his word for it, after all, how could I know better than him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 http://profootballta...-2013-qb-class/ From that article: On a media conference call Monday, ESPN analyst Jon Gruden indicated he personally preferred former Syracuse quarterback Ryan Nassib to any other quarterback in the Class of 2013. “I like his upside,” said Gruden, who formerly coached the Raiders and Buccaneers. Earlier in the call, Gruden termed Nassib “a sleeper in this draft.” Gruden has come away impressed with Nassib’s ability to learn quickly. He noted that Nassib had “a lot of freedom” at Syracuse to switch plays and read the field. “He’s functioned in a couple of different offenses,” Gruden said. “What they did this year at Syracuse, changing their offense two weeks before the regular season, says a lot about this kid’s ability to adapt.” Gruden also liked what he saw from Nassib in late-game situations with the Orangemen. “There were times that Nassib had to make something to happen for Syracuse to win, and I thought he did that. I thought he proved he could do it at the next level,” Gruden said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hey - on profootballtalk there's an article about Gruden saying he thinks Nassib is the best QB of the bunch this year. That says a lot, to me. Gruden is considered a very good judge of QB talent - at the NFL level. If he says he likes Nassib, that he thinks Nassib can be very successful in this league, I'm going to take his word for it, after all, how could I know better than him? Gruden also loved Gabbert and Bill Walsh loved Trent. Gruden ain't 100% on these things either. Not saying he's not right on this one, but he's been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) I think you're being a little overly-sensitive to these QB debates. I don't really get your argument. So you don't want fans to have strong opinions about the future of the QB position on an NFL team message board? These kind of fans are now deemed as being "extremists"? Really? I find people who ride the fence and give all sides of an argument lame and boring. Good or bad, I want an opinion. Not someone tip toeing around the subject. I suggest that you don't come here on draft day because it probably isn't going to be very pretty. This isn't the Colt or Redskin "slam dunk" Luck or RGIII QB pick situation. Don't ever forget that this is just a message board and you can't take anything too seriously. People are passionate about who they like and don't like by now. That's an ok thing in my book. Once again, I think if you read the post it's intuitively obvious what I'm saying. Especially this part right here: So go ahead and make your prediction, but at least do it with some level of circumspection...if for no other reason than to save face if and when you're completely wrong I'm all for having an opinion, even a strong one. Hey, I've got a strong one myself about most things, including this year's draft. What I pointed out was that there's far, far too much "My viewpoint is an incontrovertible fact"-type sentiment in this thread, and it's going to make a few people feel pretty dumb one day (either the "Nassib is definitely a franchise QB and if you can't see it you're stupid" crew or the "Nassib is a complete bust and if you can't see it you're stupid" crew is bound to be wrong). That's all I'm saying, and I can't believe that it's not clear based on my posts. Edited April 15, 2013 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Gruden also loved Gabbert and Bill Walsh loved Trent. Gruden ain't 100% on these things either. Not saying he's not right on this one, but he's been wrong before. Yeah, Gruden wasn't exactly known for his great ability to develop QBs. His best QB was Rich Gannon who was like 53 when he was on the Raiders. The 1st QB Gruden drafts and develops into a quality NFL one will be his first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Gruden also loved Gabbert and Bill Walsh loved Trent. Gruden ain't 100% on these things either. Not saying he's not right on this one, but he's been wrong before. They've all been wrong. I don't think, at least I hope anyway, that no one is claiming Gruden is the end-all-be-all evaluator of QB prospects, I think it just speaks more to the growing chorus of respected evaluators of talent, on to the Nassib bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Gruden also loved Gabbert and Bill Walsh loved Trent. Gruden ain't 100% on these things either. Not saying he's not right on this one, but he's been wrong before. True. But between Gruden, and highly respected Russ Lande, Greg Cosell, Ron Jaworski, and others who are putting Nassib at the very top or top two, it's hard for people to say he would be an absolute reach at #8, or that he appears to be a third round pick, or there is no way he is going to be a franchise guy. I'm torn on Nassib myself, and would rather we not take him at 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I'm torn on Nassib myself, and would rather we not take him at 8. Same here. But it seems the 'consensus' may be backing the Bills into a corner on this one. SDS better have his TWS server farm ready for a stress test on draft day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Same here. But it seems the 'consensus' may be backing the Bills into a corner on this one. SDS better have his TWS server farm ready for a stress test on draft day... I think that if they target Nassib, they will roll the dice and not draft him at #8 and look to trade back into the end of the first round to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Same here. But it seems the 'consensus' may be backing the Bills into a corner on this one. SDS better have his TWS server farm ready for a stress test on draft day... I truly believe that Buddy Nix is stubborn enough not to let the "consensus" sway him one bit. Stubbornness is sometimes a great thing and sometimes a terrible thing. In this case, I think it would be to our benefit. And I don't think that if the Bills do take him at 8, it necessarily means he was backed into a corner. He could have been, but he may very well love Nassib, and he VERY likely trusts Marrone a lot, considering he hired him. Nix said he thinks there are two clear starting quality QBs in this draft. One of them could easily be Nassib. The real issue, to me, is that we simply don't know the extent to which Marrone loves Nassib. He obviously likes him a lot. He owes a large chunk of his lifelong goal of being an NFL head coach to Nassib. We just don't know if he is now willing to bet that job on the kid. If Marrone lobbies hard for him, and Buddy likes him a lot himself, I can see him pulling the trigger. I don't think pundits and fans are going to sway him one bit. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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