Inside tale of Ray Lewis' parking-lot brawl homicide case

[NorWideRight]

How long did it take you to think of that? Absolute Genius.

 

About 1/100th the time it took you to read it, comprehend it, and respond. So what's your point? ROFL Waste your time much?? DOH! DOH! DOH! ROFL

[Doc]

maybe not by you

Not by most people.

[dwight in philly]

Not by most people.

really.. wonder why it is an issue then? Edited January 28, 2013 by dwight in philly

[BuffOrange]

Since I like to be an optimist, I will assume that every rational person reads that article and has a reaction along these lines:

 

At around 3:30 in the morning, Lewis and his crew of about 10 headed outside, where Oakley began to get aggressive with two other clubgoers — themselves part of a group of about 10. Oakley kept at it and got whacked on the side of the head with a champagne bottle. Then, Lewis would later testify, “all hell broke loose at that point. Everybody was throwing fists. Everybody was punching.”

Everyone, that is, except Ray Lewis, who testified that while all this was going on, he calmly rested against his limo, watching as his friend Sweeting was dragged and assaulted by two huge men.

“I don’t fight,” Lewis testified. “Period.”

 

"Hmm, that's a bit hard to believe. OK it's certainly possible he didn't stab someone but really"?

 

Lollar suffered five stab wounds: two to the heart, one to the chest and two to the abdomen. Baker, too, was stabbed directly in the heart and in the liver. Both died before they made it to the hospital. Baker’s face was beaten so badly that, he had a closed casket at his wake.

 

 

"Wow, that sounds like it might be a tad more than just self defense".

 

After racing from the scene, Lewis’ limo didn’t return to his hotel, the Georgian, but instead to the Holiday Inn Express where Sweeting was staying. Lewis then took a cab back to the Georgian.

 

"That's extremely odd. A cab when he paid $3k for a limo per night?"

 

Fassett told the police he’d seen Sweeting, Oakley and Lewis all fighting and provided details that only an eyewitness could know. He said he’d heard Oakley boast, “I stabbed mine,” and Sweeting reply, “I stabbed mine, too.” When police got to Lewis’ room, they found blood there, too — but not Lewis, who had fled to his fiancée’s family home.

 

 

"Another odd tibit".

 

For example, his cellphone was unusually active right after Baker and Lollar were killed. Several eyewitnesses saw people exiting that limo with a laundry bag, which they threw in a Dumpster. Cops would never find the clothes Lewis wore that night, not even the mink. Nor would they find the photo taken of Lewis’ entourage that night, which Robertson had already burned. A few hours after the murders, at about 6 a.m., Lewis had called Robertson and asked her to go to the Georgian and pack up everything he’d left behind.

 

 

"Dumping laundry bags, burning photos, asking mistress to pick up stuff at his hotel...more perfectly normal activities that don't deserve suspicion".

 

 

This is the internet though, where everyone needs to try their hardest to be a contrarian, show everyone how smart they are, and prove they aren't a simpleton. So in this thread, people bring up the other party's prior record (I mean I'm sure they weren't choir boys but one of their records was pot possession...which most people I knew in college were guilty of), complain about the other 7 guys in his group not getting enough attention, and say if Ray Ray was a Bill we'd all be cool with it, and then compare him favorably to Bill Bellichick because he's learned from his mistakes. Oh and almost forgot blaming the media, 'cause ya know, ESPN & CBS are just so hard on him with the the tough questions and rough treatment they give him, basically campaigning on his behalf to win humanitarian awards on a weekly basis.

Wow. Congratulations Mr WEO - I do not have the stomach to quote this garbage line by line and argue with people whose chances of being reasonable make Dick Jauron's future as a head coach look bright.

Edited January 28, 2013 by BuffOrange

[dwight in philly]

Since I like to be an optimist, I will assume that every rational person reads that article and has a reaction along these lines:

 

 

 

"Hmm, that's a bit hard to believe. OK it's certainly possible he didn't stab someone but really"?

 

 

 

"Wow, that sounds like it might be a tad more than just self defense".

 

 

 

"That's extremely odd. A cab when he paid $3k for a limo per night?"

 

 

 

"Another odd tibit".

 

 

 

"Dumping laundry bags, burning photos, asking mistress to pick up stuff at his hotel...more perfectly normal activities that don't deserve suspicion".

 

 

This is the internet though, where everyone needs to try their hardest to be a contrarian, show everyone how smart they are, and prove they aren't a simpleton. So in this thread, people bring up the other party's prior record (I mean I'm sure they weren't choir boys but one of their records was pot possession...which most people I knew in college were guilty of), complain about the other 7 guys in his group not getting enough attention, and say if Ray Ray was a Bill we'd all be cool with it, and then compare him favorably to Bill Bellichick because he's learned from his mistakes.

Wow. Congratulations Mr WEO - I do not have the stomach to quote this garbage line by line and argue with people whose chances of being reasonable make Dick Jauron's future as a head coach look bright.

i like it..

[Mr. WEO]

Yes, no doubt LT developed a taste for jailbait after his playing days were over. And again, had the internet been around during his heyday, you'd have no higher an opinion of him than you do Lewis, despite his ability to sack QB's.

 

As for Lewis, he seems to have used the tragic events of that night as a means to clean up his act, with God being the conduit. Happens for a lot of people. Whether he's truly a pious man, I cannot say, nor do I really care. I don't know him, will never meet him, and I don't lay awake at night worrying that he's not truly pious, or that he might stab me.

 

They might have gotten him on lying, but nothing would have come of it after wanting him to flip and rat on his buds, because they had nothing on him other than he was involved in the fight, but didn't stab anyone.

 

Not even close to what I said. Again what I said is that just because someone is killed, it doesn't mean they were the innocent party. But yes, the decendents did have rap sheets.

 

So wait a minute; who do you think fired the guns at the car? Some 3rd party? LOL! Maybe Mastermind Murderer Lewis had his own guys shoot at the car?

 

 

So Mr. Holmes, your deduction is that Sweeting and Oakley purchased knives at Sports Authority the previous day for Lewis, who was waiting to kill innocent people the next day at a party for no reason at all? Is that it?

 

Look, ultimately you have NO evidence against Lewis that supports him committing murder. Now whether it was truly self defense by Sweeting and Oakley I cannot say for sure. But a jury heard testimony from some people who weren't paid-off by Lewis, and came away with no charges for them, nevermind Lewis.

 

As for LT, absolutely no one in the 80's and the early 90's had a problem with or even emitted anything but a yawn over pro athletes/coke/hookers. This is a bit different....

 

As for the "rap sheets"--you should look into that. One kid was busted for weed and the other for a weapons violation. Some hard core gangsters righ there.

 

As for the knives, Ray took the boys shopping for those (folding) knives the day before the party. Why do you think he would take them on such an odd shopping trip? And just happened to have these new knives on them while they were chasing down the pot head to stab him in the heart outside the club. LAter they even bragged to Lewis about stabbing these guys ("I got mine").

 

As for the guns--again I would ask you: why didn't the victims shoot their assailants? Simple question. Or, if they were unarmed (hint, they were...), why didn't their boys shoot Oakley and Sweeting BEFORE they latter 2 beat their buddies to a pulp and then stabed them in their heart to kill them? WHy can't you answer 2 simple questions? The simplest and most likely answer is the guys with the guns came out blazing after the two vitims were dead or dying on the ground. Do you really need Mr. Watson to figure that scenario out?

 

I'm not saying Ray killed anyone. I'm saying that he knows who did and he aided and abetted them after the fact and that makes him an accessory to murder after the fact:

 

"An accessory after the fact to an offence is one who, knowing that a person has been a party to the offence, receives, comforts or assists that person for the purpose of enabling that person to escape."

 

I believe that this is what he did--his actions that night are not those of a guy just hanging back (you don't get blood on your mink by watching from the car). You think he just calmly stood around and watched his buddies get involved in a melee, watched them stab two guys to death and got in the limo. You think that because these kids "had a record" it's likely they put themselves in a postion to be slaughtered.

 

 

 

True. Many people have been found not guilty by a jury. So...most people acquitted of murder are guilty?

 

And again, Lewis wasn't even suspected of murder.

 

Well, he was arrested and charged with murder and jailed. He spent 16 days in jail. But he "wasn't even suspected of murder".

[Chandler#81]

Ray Ray on SNL

 

http://www.joe.ie/sports/us-sports/video-the-snl-ray-lewis-skit-is-a-must-see-for-nfl-fans-0033358-1

[Doc]

As for LT, absolutely no one in the 80's and the early 90's had a problem with or even emitted anything but a yawn over pro athletes/coke/hookers. This is a bit different....

 

As for the "rap sheets"--you should look into that. One kid was busted for weed and the other for a weapons violation. Some hard core gangsters righ there.

Whereas Oakley and Sweeting had nothing. Not saying they were hardcore criminals (well, the weapons charge makes him a thug like Lynch), but having a rap sheet versus not is a factor. and was likely used during the trial.

As for the knives, Ray took the boys shopping for those (folding) knives the day before the party. Why do you think he would take them on such an odd shopping trip? And just happened to have these new knives on them while they were chasing down the pot head to stab him in the heart outside the club. LAter they even bragged to Lewis about stabbing these guys ("I got mine").]

The trip to Sports Authority was specifically for the knives? Why not buy guns (and if Sports Authority didn't sell them, from another place)? Again, who goes looking for trouble with a folding knife bought from Sports Authority?

 

As for the guns--again I would ask you: why didn't the victims shoot their assailants? Simple question. Or, if they were unarmed (hint, they were...), why didn't their boys shoot Oakley and Sweeting BEFORE they latter 2 beat their buddies to a pulp and then stabed them in their heart to kill them? WHy can't you answer 2 simple questions? The simplest and most likely answer is the guys with the guns came out blazing after the two vitims were dead or dying on the ground. Do you really need Mr. Watson to figure that scenario out?

I'd surmise that the decedents had guns on them but couldn't wield them, and after they were dead, their posse took them from them and started shooting at the limo. That scenario would satisfy: a) self defense, b) why there were no shots fired earlier, and c) there being no guns found on them. I don't know why the people with the guns would wait until the guys had been stabbed numerous times and Lewis and his buds had all piled into the limo to start shooting. And somehow the defense attorney got a jury to believe that these 2 non-celebs were acting in self-defense.

 

I'm not saying Ray killed anyone. I'm saying that he knows who did and he aided and abetted them after the fact and that makes him an accessory to murder after the fact:

 

"An accessory after the fact to an offence is one who, knowing that a person has been a party to the offence, receives, comforts or assists that person for the purpose of enabling that person to escape."

 

I believe that this is what he did--his actions that night are not those of a guy just hanging back (you don't get blood on your mink by watching from the car). You think he just calmly stood around and watched his buddies get involved in a melee, watched them stab two guys to death and got in the limo. You think that because these kids "had a record" it's likely they put themselves in a postion to be slaughtered.

They all piled into the limo and got the hell out of there. What was Lewis supposed to do? Stay there and wait for the police while getting shot at? And the cops found them with little trouble. If anyone, the driver should have been charged with aiding and abetting. What Lewis deserved to be charged with is what he was charged with: obstruction of justice. Is that worse than hookers and blow?

 

Well, he was arrested and charged with murder and jailed. He spent 16 days in jail. But he "wasn't even suspected of murder".

Sorry. meant to say that after he was jailed on suspicion of murder because he was there with his 2 friends the night those 2 men died, there were no statements from any witnesses that claimed he stabbed the men. But we're in agreement that he didn't kill anyone.

[ExiledInIllinois]

How is knowing who did the murder and obstructing justice not punishable by years in prison? It would seem that is a worse offense than actually murdering somebody. I would think that (the obstruction) is the real disease=FUBARing things up so everybody walks. Yeah, he turned on his buds to save his own hide. BUT, the prosecution could not get a conviction because of what Ray Lewis did. Why is that treated with a slap on the wrist. One would think that is the ultimate crime because the two men murdered will never receive justice. BS on the whole self-defense thing. If it wasn't for Ray Lewis, the prosecution would have got their man/men.

[Mr. WEO]

Whereas Oakley and Sweeting had nothing. Not saying they were hardcore criminals (well, the weapons charge makes him a thug like Lynch), but having a rap sheet versus not is a factor. and was likely used during the trial.

 

Oh yeah, I'm sure that the jury was very suspicious of that pot smoker. Great point.

 

The trip to Sports Authority was specifically for the knives? Why not buy guns (and if Sports Authority didn't sell them, from another place)? Again, who goes looking for trouble with a folding knife bought from Sports Authority?

 

Even you should know that you can't walk into a sporting goods store and walk out with a handgun. So, unless you are asking why they didn't pick up a few long rifles to bring to the club the next night, I don't understand the point of the question.

 

I'd surmise that the decedents had guns on them but couldn't wield them, and after they were dead, their posse took them from them and started shooting at the limo. That scenario would satisfy: a) self defense, b) why there were no shots fired earlier, and c) there being no guns found on them. I don't know why the people with the guns would wait until the guys had been stabbed numerous times and Lewis and his buds had all piled into the limo to start shooting. And somehow the defense attorney got a jury to believe that these 2 non-celebs were acting in self-defense.

 

Ah, so now we're getting somewhere! You have "surmised" that in fact the only individuals who were armed with guns that night were the actual dead men. And that, during the course of their pre-stabbing beatings, neither one of these poor guys (one of whom was described at one point as "running for his life by a witness") could get the darned things out to shoot with! I hate when that happens! And, of course, these dead men's buddies were somehow immediately able to find these weapons on the dead men and fire them before the limo took off seconds later! you're right--it all makes so much better sense now!

 

 

They all piled into the limo and got the hell out of there. What was Lewis supposed to do? Stay there and wait for the police while getting shot at? And the cops found them with little trouble. If anyone, the driver should have been charged with aiding and abetting. What Lewis deserved to be charged with is what he was charged with: obstruction of justice. Is that worse than hookers and blow?

 

Yeah, what's a little obstruction of justice (destroying evidence such as his blood soaked clothes, pictures; having your own PI contact the fellas in the limo before the cops could get statements; coaching the suspects through your sister while you are in jail; getting your employee to recant a damning police statement) compared to...a cocaine habit and seeking the company of prostitutes.

 

Did you really just ask me that?

 

Sorry. meant to say that after he was jailed on suspicion of murder because he was there with his 2 friends the night those 2 men died, there were no statements from any witnesses that claimed he stabbed the men. But we're in agreement that he didn't kill anyone.

 

No he didn't kill anyone, but he aided those who did. Part of his crime was being able to present the jury with enough conflicting testimony to establish reasonable doubt. I think you are pretending not to understand all of this just to be argumentative. There is simply no way you believe that goofy gun scenario you pretzeled yourself to above. Nor can you really believe this is all not big deal--compared to LTs indiscretions.

[Alphadawg7]

Since I like to be an optimist, I will assume that every rational person reads that article and has a reaction along these lines:

 

 

 

"Hmm, that's a bit hard to believe. OK it's certainly possible he didn't stab someone but really"?

 

 

 

"Wow, that sounds like it might be a tad more than just self defense".

 

 

 

"That's extremely odd. A cab when he paid $3k for a limo per night?"

 

 

 

"Another odd tibit".

 

 

 

"Dumping laundry bags, burning photos, asking mistress to pick up stuff at his hotel...more perfectly normal activities that don't deserve suspicion".

 

 

This is the internet though, where everyone needs to try their hardest to be a contrarian, show everyone how smart they are, and prove they aren't a simpleton. So in this thread, people bring up the other party's prior record (I mean I'm sure they weren't choir boys but one of their records was pot possession...which most people I knew in college were guilty of), complain about the other 7 guys in his group not getting enough attention, and say if Ray Ray was a Bill we'd all be cool with it, and then compare him favorably to Bill Bellichick because he's learned from his mistakes. Oh and almost forgot blaming the media, 'cause ya know, ESPN & CBS are just so hard on him with the the tough questions and rough treatment they give him, basically campaigning on his behalf to win humanitarian awards on a weekly basis.

Wow. Congratulations Mr WEO - I do not have the stomach to quote this garbage line by line and argue with people whose chances of being reasonable make Dick Jauron's future as a head coach look bright.

 

Ok, for the love of god, will you people PLEASE get the facts of the case and the acquittal straight. Its fine if you want to disagree and somehow link Ray to a murder that NO WITNESSES and NO EVIDENCE have yet to do, but at least get your facts straight.

 

1. Why do people keep acting like the no one knows who stabbed the 2 men? The people wielding the knives and stabbing the victims are known to be Sweeting and Oakley. So please stop speculating on who did or did not stab someone, they did, Ray testified to it as did others.

2. No one got off on a loop hole. The two men, Sweeting and Oakley, were acquitted in SELF DEFENSE.

3. The group of men that Ray and his entourage had an altercation with were waiting for Ray and his friends. Its speculated and believed to have been an attempted robbery attempt.

4. The group of men struck Rays group first with a champagne bottle, witnesses collaborated that.

5. The group of men not only had fire arms, but fired upon the limo leaving it full of bullet holes when the police found the car. These innocent fellows seem to have misplaced these harmless guns as none were found at the scene and one of the men who admits to firing the guy said the gun is just gone as he destroyed it before police could inspect it.

6. Ray and his friends all turned themselves in while none of the other crew did nor came forward.

7. Rays friends had no prior records, the two men did that died, one of them serious.

8. Ray testified against the two men, even describing how the men stabbed the victims.

9. People are taking a quote and twisting the meaning of the quote to be boasting like they were championing around about stabbing someone. All that was quoted was that Sweeting and Oakley said "I stabbed mine" and "I stabbed mine too" like it was meant to be a trophy. How do you know that they were not yelling that out in a panic...more like holy sh*t...I stabbed mine...and his friend saying me too. You have no idea about the tones behind those quotes, yet despite an over whelming pile of evidence of self defense, so many want to twist that one piece to be an act of pride and boasting.

10. People saying its hard to believe Ray did not fight...well I am sure he did fight and initially did not want to admit that because he was worried no one would believe he had nothing to do with the stabbings. I would have done the same thing initially if I was him. He later changed that statement too when he plead guilty to obstruction of justice and agreed to testify to what he knew.

 

I get the families are still very upset by all this and still think Ray knows more than he does. They never got the answers they wanted so I do not blame them. In the end, no one faced any punishment for the deaths of those two men. However, the families also do not want to face the possibility that the 2 men might have instigated it, were suspected of potentially being there to rob Ray, and might not have been as innocent as they want to believe. Were they innocent victims, or slain assailants...hard to say, but the TRUTH is that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the men started an unfortunate string of events and were intentionally there to start a confrontation.

 

Yet even more information being ignored about these 2 victims that some want to paint to be so innocent of any wrong doing that led to their deaths. The first one talks about their legal issues...the second one talks about one of the witnesses who was WITH THE VICTIMS, not a Ray entourage member, but a member of the group from the VICTIMS side testifying that they planned to rob him and had a gun. Third one talks about who struck first, and fourth one talks about how not a single witness said Ray stabbed anyone. All of these are from main stream news articles from the time of the trials.

 

"Both victims had scrapes with the law in their native Ohio. Lollar had twice been convicted of misdemeanor marijuana possession. Baker pleaded guilty in 1997 to improperly handling a firearm. He received probation, which he apparently violated the next year when he was indicted on charges of possession of cocaine and driving with an open container of alcohol. He failed to appear at his arraignment and a warrant was outstanding at the time of his death."

 

"A woman who was with the three on the morning of the murders told investigators that they overheard people in Lollar's and Baker's group plotting the armed robbery of some of Lewis' companions, who had separated from Lewis' main group and were walking down the street. Court documents filed earlier by attorneys for Sweeting suggested that Lollar had been carrying a gun and that he and Baker were "aggressors" in the incident."

 

"Witnesses to the Jan. 31 melee outside an Atlanta nightclub in which two men were fatally stabbed report that one of the victims hit the man now accused of his murder over the head with a champagne bottle as the fight began, according to evidence turned over to defense attorneys on Friday."

 

"Although there are contradictions among witnesses to the struggle, sparked after a night of revelry following the Super Bowl, none of them say Lewis stabbed anyone. One of the victims, Jacinth Baker, was seen by some smashing Oakley with a bottle, sources said. This would appear consistent with suggestions made in court motions by an attorney for Sweeting that the victims had been the aggressors."

Edited January 29, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[Doc]

Oh yeah, I'm sure that the jury was very suspicious of that pot smoker. Great point.

 

 

 

Even you should know that you can't walk into a sporting goods store and walk out with a handgun. So, unless you are asking why they didn't pick up a few long rifles to bring to the club the next night, I don't understand the point of the question.

 

 

 

Ah, so now we're getting somewhere! You have "surmised" that in fact the only individuals who were armed with guns that night were the actual dead men. And that, during the course of their pre-stabbing beatings, neither one of these poor guys (one of whom was described at one point as "running for his life by a witness") could get the darned things out to shoot with! I hate when that happens! And, of course, these dead men's buddies were somehow immediately able to find these weapons on the dead men and fire them before the limo took off seconds later! you're right--it all makes so much better sense now!

 

 

 

 

Yeah, what's a little obstruction of justice (destroying evidence such as his blood soaked clothes, pictures; having your own PI contact the fellas in the limo before the cops could get statements; coaching the suspects through your sister while you are in jail; getting your employee to recant a damning police statement) compared to...a cocaine habit and seeking the company of prostitutes.

 

Did you really just ask me that?

 

 

 

No he didn't kill anyone, but he aided those who did. Part of his crime was being able to present the jury with enough conflicting testimony to establish reasonable doubt. I think you are pretending not to understand all of this just to be argumentative. There is simply no way you believe that goofy gun scenario you pretzeled yourself to above. Nor can you really believe this is all not big deal--compared to LTs indiscretions.

Read Alphadawg's post above, doc. Even without obstructing justice, short of Oakley and Sweeting admitting they killed the men for fun, there was enough reasonable doubt to get them off.

[SDS]

Ok, for the love of god, will you people PLEASE get the facts of the case and the acquittal straight. Its fine if you want to disagree and somehow link Ray to a murder that NO WITNESSES and NO EVIDENCE have yet to do, but at least get your facts straight.

 

Do you know who are not able to add facts to the case? Dead people.

 

Want another fact? Ray Lewis gives a speech to universities in the spring. He tells his audience he is sad for the families because "they will never know the truth of what happened that night."

 

Funny how there was a trial and a bunch of people parroting the outcome, but Lewis openly admits the families will never know the truth.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

Do you know who are not able to add facts to the case? Dead people.

 

Want another fact? Ray Lewis gives a speech to universities in the spring. He tells his audience he is sad for the families because "they will never know the truth of what happened that night."

 

Funny how there was a trial and a bunch of people parroting the outcome, but Lewis openly admits the families will never know the truth.

 

Lol, and you take that as an admission of guilt? Come on man, this is getting silly. No family will ever know what happened in any death where there is no video evidence proving one way or another. It will always come down to what they choose to believe based on what is known. So, no the family will never know, and that is apparent by their refusal to believe that their kids (despite police records that include fire arms) were capable of attacking others despite all the evidence and eye witness accounts. Not to mention people who knew the victims testifying that the two men and others were planning a robbery of Ray earlier in the night and had firearms which was proven true as Rays limo was shot up by members of the attacking group. Also funny how those members destroyed the gun before police could investigate it.

 

All Ray said was that they will never know...he didn't say they will never know cuz I will never tell. He already testified to his friends stabbing the men, so did others. There is no doubt of what happened to them, it came down to whether it was self defense or not. Jury had a lot of evidence pointing to self defense, including testimony by their own friends stating they were there to rob Ray and started the confrontation with hitting them in the head with a champagne bottle.

[SDS]

Lol, and you take that as an admission of guilt? Come on man, this is getting silly. No family will ever know what happened in any death where there is no video evidence proving one way or another. It will always come down to what they choose to believe based on what is known. So, no the family will never know, and that is apparent by their refusal to believe that their kids (despite police records that include fire arms) were capable of attacking others despite all the evidence and eye witness accounts. Not to mention people who knew the victims testifying that the two men and others were planning a robbery of Ray earlier in the night and had firearms which was proven true as Rays limo was shot up by members of the attacking group. Also funny how those members destroyed the gun before police could investigate it.

 

All Ray said was that they will never know...he didn't say they will never know cuz I will never tell. He already testified to his friends stabbing the men, so did others. There is no doubt of what happened to them, it came down to whether it was self defense or not. Jury had a lot of evidence pointing to self defense, including testimony by their own friends stating they were there to rob Ray and started the confrontation with hitting them in the head with a champagne bottle.

 

Wow. Great response. Way to come back with more trial fare when Lewis himself openly and willingly tells people that the truth isn't known.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

Wow. Great response. Way to come back with more trial fare when Lewis himself openly and willingly tells people that the truth isn't known.

 

Did I or did I not just say that he said that? Lol, I said you twist it to mean that it's an admission of guilt or knowing something sinister. It could simply mean that without video evidence no one will ever know what is or isn't true and it comes down to what people believe.

 

But you must be right, Ray is having fun with people and running around going "na na nana, I know something you don't know" because he knows he can't be tried again on double jeopardy and is secretly gloating and telling people they will never know.

 

Lmao, I guess to you that makes more sense than using common sense and just realizing that the truth will never be confirmed because without an actual video recording of the events no one can ever know for sure one way or the other and that's what he is alluding to.

 

I find it entertaining that your response to a ton of factual evidence, the same evidence that acquitted the two men, was to focus on a comment in a speech that can be interpreted many ways as if that somehow proves all the other facts wrong.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[Mr. WEO]

Read Alphadawg's post above, doc. Even without obstructing justice, short of Oakley and Sweeting admitting they killed the men for fun, there was enough reasonable doubt to get them off.

 

Yes there was enough reasonble doubt, obviously. It's also clear that Lewis orchestrated the creation of that doubt. I have little doubt that if these two guys were not with Lewis when that fight broke out then thye would be in jail for a long time.

 

As for alphadawg and his "ton of factual evidence", there is no such ton. It is all based on conflictiing eyewitness accounts.

[Juror#8]

A very good ESPN article that discusses Lewis' dichotomy:

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8886652/super-bowl-xlvii-ray-lewis-do-believe

 

When do you judge a man, at his best or at his worst?

[dwight in philly]

A very good ESPN article that discusses Lewis' dichotomy:

 

http://espn.go.com/n...ewis-do-believe

 

When do you judge a man, at his best or at his worst?

i judge him as guilty.

[JohnC]

Yes there was enough reasonble doubt, obviously. It's also clear that Lewis orchestrated the creation of that doubt. I have little doubt that if these two guys were not with Lewis when that fight broke out then thye would be in jail for a long time.

 

As for alphadawg and his "ton of factual evidence", there is no such ton. It is all based on conflictiing eyewitness accounts.

 

Alphadawg, Excellent post.

 

 

WEO,The conflicting accounts is the central point of alphadawg's excellent comprehensive response. There is no way that a conclusive determination can be made of what happened. What do you want to do when rendering a verdict for a serious crime? Guess?

i judge him as guilty.

 

Guilty of what? Certainly not murder.