I truly feel horrible for Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[TheFunPolice]

You think fans here are tough?

 

Imagine NY, Boston, Philly, or Dallas fans and media dealing with this QB, HC, and GM.

 

Nix's little "we can let this thing go dead" line would have been like tossing blood into a tank full of sharks. In Buffalo it's "golly gee Mr. Nix, we're really sorry sir!"

[reddogblitz]

I don't feel sorry for Fitz. He's a grown man. He's a very rich young man with a Harvard degree. If this football thing doesn't work out, he can use his degree and football celebrity to get into a pretty sweet corporate gig somewhere. Or, just retire and live off the interest in his football money.

 

And, he's still got time. If Buffalo replaces him and the starter gets injured, he'll be there and if he does well and we get on a roll and the rook is struggling ...

 

Or he goes somewhere else and this happens. Worked for Hostettler and Earl Morrell.

 

He's going through a tuff stretch football wise, but he'll be alright. At the very worst, in 10 years he'll be like Marc Brunell and Todd Collins, being a good backup for a long time.

[Donald Duck]

First of all, Alex Smith is better than Fitz.

 

Second of all, Manning would not fail here. It would only be to what degree he would lift this franchise.

 

Thirdly, it might be inaccurate to say that Gailey relies too heavily on Fitz. The discussion this week has been whether Gailey gives Fitz enough leeway to call audibles. That was what the whole Stevie drama was about.

 

The irony is that according to Gailey, the plays in which Fitz was not allowed to audible out of were running plays. Gailey clearly stated this and said the reason was because he wanted the team to run the ball more.

 

The implication of this is that maybe earlier in the season that Fitz was audibling to pass plays too often which could possibly mean that the reason the Bills have been over-reliant on the pass is due to Fitz, and not Gailey.

 

Bottom line, there's a possibility (again very ironic if true) that Fitz has put too much on his shoulders passing the ball and that Gailey is trying to unburden him with "required running plays."

 

Finally, I don't feel horrible for Fitz.

 

Fitz has a Harvard degree, a lovely wife who was an All-American soccer player, and has already made millions of dollars in his career.

 

Oh, and his wife has a Harvard degree too.

 

Good post

 

we should be all over Alex Smith ...

[Gugny]

Good post

 

we should be all over Alex Smith ...

No. No we shouldn't. Especially if Chan stays. Alex Smith is Fitz-West.

[Pondslider]

Poor Alex Smith.

[KOKBILLS]

Alex Smith is Fitz-West.

 

No he's not...Smith is taller, better arm, better scrambler, more talented overall than Fitz by a good bit...He's a former #1 overall pick...

 

I'm not advocating going out and getting Smith either...But lets not make ridiculous statements here...Smith would most definitely be an upgrade to Fitz...

[KDIGGZ]

i would be an upgrade to fitz. i can complete a pass longer than 10 yards. i do it all of the time in my backyard. put me in coach!!!

[BuffOrange]

All these SF comparisons make my eyes bleed. Take the sickest front 7 the league has seen since arguably the 2000 Ravens, an elite OL, an elite coach (note the difficulty of attaining all of these things is why they're an exception to the rule that you need a good QB to win) and Fitz would only be a little bit of a downgrade vs Alex Smith who is average.

 

Great. How much of a ringing endorsement is this? And will the 49ers still have all of these near perfect pieces in place 3 years from now or will they be the Jets 2.0 who had a lot of these same pieces 2-3 yrs ago with a QB who wasn't very good? I don't know but I know the Packers will still be good.

[Alphadawg7]

Everyone likes to make a mockery of this guy, but the FACT is that he is the best QB we've had since Kelly. He hasn't been perfect, but he has kept us a respectable team.

 

And guess what? He is a human being just like all of us. He has feelings. How would you guys like if thousands of people publicly hated your guts because of the way you throw a goddamn football.

 

Worst fans in football. You should be ashamed.

 

Not sure how long I can associate myself with such insensitive and ignorant people like so many on this board.

 

Might be time to find another team or at least another website.

 

Go bills.

 

Hahaha, come on gugny, did you really just write this? I mean come on, you think this doesn't happen in every fan base of every sport? Seriously...if you think rooting for another team will be different and all their fans are gonna be in a hippy love Fest about every underperforming player on their team then you are just in denial.

 

More importantly, we as fans have earned the right to criticize as we spend hard earned money on this team, these players, etc. We pay for directv, buy jerseys, buy fat heads, video games, hats, etc that allow this man to live a life most of his fans will never know. He's a grown man being paid millions of dollars by the FANS to play a game. We pay his salary, and we have the right to criticize if he fails to deliver on what he was paid to do.

 

So no offense, but this whiney BS about feeling bad for a man who lives such a blessed life makes me sick. Why don't you go feel bad for the inner city youth struggling to come up through football to change their lives...why not feel sorry for the homeless person at the off ramp you drive by and don't give him at least a dollar so they can eat...why not feel sorry for the widow who's husband was just killed serving over seas?

 

Seriously, people feel bad a for a man living his dream and being paid $50 mil to do it? WTF is wrong with you people, seriously. I would do his job for 1 percent of the pay he makes and let fans spit on me after every INT, sack, failed 3rd down conversion, fumble, and loss. Get a grip around here.

 

Fitz sucks, GO Bills

Edited December 5, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Orton's Arm]

All these SF comparisons make my eyes bleed. Take the sickest front 7 the league has seen since arguably the 2000 Ravens, an elite OL, an elite coach (note the difficulty of attaining all of these things is why they're an exception to the rule that you need a good QB to win) and Fitz would only be a little bit of a downgrade vs Alex Smith who is average.

 

Great. How much of a ringing endorsement is this? And will the 49ers still have all of these near perfect pieces in place 3 years from now or will they be the Jets 2.0 who had a lot of these same pieces 2-3 yrs ago with a QB who wasn't very good? I don't know but I know the Packers will still be good.

 

Having a really good defense doesn't necessarily boost a QB's stats. If you look at the year Trent Dilfer spent on the Ravens (back when they had one of the best defenses in NFL history), and compare his yards per attempt for that year to his career average, you'll see little or no difference.

 

Statistically, this year's 49ers team has one of the five best OLs in the league. The same could be said of this year's Bills team. So that's more or less a wash.

 

In 2010, Smith averaged 6.9 yards per attempt--not much different than the 6.8 yards per attempt Fitz averaged that year.

In 2011, Smith averaged 7.1 yards per attempt; while Fitz averaged 6.7 yards per attempt.

This season, Smith is averaging 8.0 yards per attempt; while Fitz is averaging 6.6 yards per attempt. I don't think you can reasonably compare what Alex Smith is doing this season, to what Fitz would have done had he been put in a 49ers uniform.

 

You made the argument about coaching. I'd divide coaching into two categories: Xs and Os and teaching players how to play. As for Xs and Os: Gailey's Xs and Os result in WRs getting open all the time on passing plays. The problem is that Fitz doesn't throw accurate passes to his receivers. Open targets + inaccurate passes is not an Xs and Os problem.

 

Some of Fitz's supporters might argue that he would be a more accurate passer if his coaches were better teachers. This is a harder argument to prove or disprove, because we as fans don't have very much information about the quality of the teaching Fitz is receiving, or about Fitz's ability to benefit from such teaching.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Edwards' Arm

[section122]

 

In 2010, Smith averaged 6.9 yards per attempt--not much different than the 6.8 yards per attempt Fitz averaged that year.

In 2011, Smith averaged 7.1 yards per attempt; while Fitz averaged 6.7 yards per attempt.

This season, Smith is averaging 8.0 yards per attempt; while Fitz is averaging 6.6 yards per attempt. I don't think you can reasonably compare what Alex Smith is doing this season, to what Fitz would have done had he been put in a 49ers uniform.

 

You should just change your name to ypa is the end all be all stat

 

I've been thinking about this stat though and I refuse to believe that ypa has nothing to do with surrounding talent. Quality rbs force the other d to put more in the box opening up passing lanes. Quality wrs clearly have an effect on this stat, the ability to get open, run after catch, and catching ability all have a great impact. Quality o-lines have an impact on giving time for a qb to go through progressions, allow for deeper routes, increase qb comfort levels. All of these things have to raise the qbs ypa. I would sincerely like to hear your feelings on these factors. I know the study blah blah blah but do the things I listed in your opinion have any effect on ypa?

 

As for Alex Smith - I put him right on par with Fitz. Talk to any niners fan and they will tell you all the same things Bills fans bemoan about Fitz. I would also add that he is a bit of an injury risk. Including this year he has only played a full season 2 out of his 7 years in the league.

[BuffOrange]

Having a really good defense doesn't necessarily boost a QB's stats. If you look at the year Trent Dilfer spent on the Ravens (back when they had one of the best defenses in NFL history), and compare his yards per attempt for that year to his career average, you'll see little or no difference.

 

Statistically, this year's 49ers team has one of the five best OLs in the league. The same could be said of this year's Bills team. So that's more or less a wash.

 

In 2010, Smith averaged 6.9 yards per attempt--not much different than the 6.8 yards per attempt Fitz averaged that year.

In 2011, Smith averaged 7.1 yards per attempt; while Fitz averaged 6.7 yards per attempt.

This season, Smith is averaging 8.0 yards per attempt; while Fitz is averaging 6.6 yards per attempt. I don't think you can reasonably compare what Alex Smith is doing this season, to what Fitz would have done had he been put in a 49ers uniform.

 

You made the argument about coaching. I'd divide coaching into two categories: Xs and Os and teaching players how to play. As for Xs and Os: Gailey's Xs and Os result in WRs getting open all the time on passing plays. The problem is that Fitz doesn't throw accurate passes to his receivers. Open targets + inaccurate passes is not an Xs and Os problem.

 

Some of Fitz's supporters might argue that he would be a more accurate passer if his coaches were better teachers. This is a harder argument to prove or disprove, because we as fans don't have very much information about the quality of the teaching Fitz is receiving, or about Fitz's ability to benefit from such teaching.

 

You're kinda all over the place there but if you're trying to say the QB matters 1,000x more than the coach I am literally the last guy on the planet you should want to argue with; not sure why you're quoting me.

 

The first few pages of this thread said the players look lost in the 2 minutes & said that's on the coach. I don't know, when did John Fox become a 2minute guru and what is the great Jim Caldwell up to these days who everyone was outraged wasn't getting more Coach of the Year support in 2009?

 

I know, it's not fair to compare our guy to Peyton. But it's not like there's only 2 great QB's in the league now. There's closer to a dozen. Finding one of them is 1) easier, 2) more realistic and 3) makes long-term success more sustainable than this pipe dream of relying on our inept FO to build this phenominally dominant team around the QB.

 

That is all.

[Thisistheyear]

Nope, I said he gets hung out to dry by a coach who kills his confidence with the play calling. But I guess you didn't read my post, just skimmed it and tried to be "funny."

 

 

 

I feel bad for the guy on the sidelines when I seem him throw away a game because of the situation his coach puts him in. He also had much better numbers and was able to move the chains more earlier this season, so if that wasn't a product of Gailey, I say let him make the choices again. Also, as I said earlier, it's hard to audible to a run play in a 5 wide set called by Chan.

 

You are either an amazing troll or really dumb.

[All_Pro_Bills]

Some of Fitz's supporters might argue that he would be a more accurate passer if his coaches were better teachers. This is a harder argument to prove or disprove, because we as fans don't have very much information about the quality of the teaching Fitz is receiving, or about Fitz's ability to benefit from such teaching.

 

The fallacy of anyone arguing the point of better 'teaching' is that teaching can help turn potential into performance but it cannot increase potential ability. For example, I could use a personnal trainer to increase my strength and conditioning but not to a point that exceeds my genetic potential. If a QB is inaccurate with the ball, outside of improving mechanics which was reported in the preseason with QB coach Lee, there is little coaching can do here. The solution is to find/draft a QB that throws with greater accuracy.

[Orton's Arm]

You should just change your name to ypa is the end all be all stat

 

I've been thinking about this stat though and I refuse to believe that ypa has nothing to do with surrounding talent. Quality rbs force the other d to put more in the box opening up passing lanes. Quality wrs clearly have an effect on this stat, the ability to get open, run after catch, and catching ability all have a great impact. Quality o-lines have an impact on giving time for a qb to go through progressions, allow for deeper routes, increase qb comfort levels. All of these things have to raise the qbs ypa. I would sincerely like to hear your feelings on these factors. I know the study blah blah blah but do the things I listed in your opinion have any effect on ypa?

 

As for Alex Smith - I put him right on par with Fitz. Talk to any niners fan and they will tell you all the same things Bills fans bemoan about Fitz. I would also add that he is a bit of an injury risk. Including this year he has only played a full season 2 out of his 7 years in the league.

 

> I've been thinking about this stat though and I refuse to believe that ypa has nothing to do with surrounding talent.

 

I agree that YPA is affected by surrounding talent. The same is also true of literally every other widely available QB stat. Ideally, someone would grade each pass thrown in the NFL on a scale from 1 - 5. (With 1 being completely uncatchable, and a 5 being perfectly thrown.) Until this is done, we will have to make do with stats that allow the quality of a QB's supporting cast to affect his numbers.

 

> As for Alex Smith - I put him right on par with Fitz.

 

I'm a bit puzzled by the above, considering the two QBs' stats are so different. (Especially their stats from this season.)

 

> Talk to any niners fan and they will tell you all the same things Bills fans bemoan about Fitz.

 

They'd be a lot more appreciative of Smith if they saw Fitz as the alternative.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Edwards' Arm

[Golden Wheels]

I don't feel sorry for Fitz. He's a grown man. He's a very rich young man with a Harvard degree. If this football thing doesn't work out, he can use his degree and football celebrity to get into a pretty sweet corporate gig somewhere. Or, just retire and live off the interest in his football money.

 

this

[RyanC883]

I don't feel sorry for Fitz. He's a grown man. He's a very rich young man with a Harvard degree. If this football thing doesn't work out, he can use his degree and football celebrity to get into a pretty sweet corporate gig somewhere. Or, just retire and live off the interest in his football money.

 

And, he's still got time. If Buffalo replaces him and the starter gets injured, he'll be there and if he does well and we get on a roll and the rook is struggling ...

 

Or he goes somewhere else and this happens. Worked for Hostettler and Earl Morrell.

 

He's going through a tuff stretch football wise, but he'll be alright. At the very worst, in 10 years he'll be like Marc Brunell and Todd Collins, being a good backup for a long time.

 

I agree. It's hard to feel bad for a guy that is a quality NFL caliber backup. I'd love him as our backup QB. The problem is that Nix and Gailey don't seem to be able to evaluate QB talent AT ALL.

[FreakPop]

The fallacy of anyone arguing the point of better 'teaching' is that teaching can help turn potential into performance but it cannot increase potential ability. For example, I could use a personnal trainer to increase my strength and conditioning but not to a point that exceeds my genetic potential. If a QB is inaccurate with the ball, outside of improving mechanics which was reported in the preseason with QB coach Lee, there is little coaching can do here. The solution is to find/draft a QB that throws with greater accuracy.

 

Accuracy at anything can be improved or people wouldn't practice at it.

[Bronc24]

 

 

Accuracy at anything can be improved or people wouldn't practice at it.

 

I'd like to hear of an instant where a notoriously inaccurate QB became consistently accurate.

[Orton's Arm]

You're kinda all over the place there but if you're trying to say the QB matters 1,000x more than the coach I am literally the last guy on the planet you should want to argue with; not sure why you're quoting me.

 

The first few pages of this thread said the players look lost in the 2 minutes & said that's on the coach. I don't know, when did John Fox become a 2minute guru and what is the great Jim Caldwell up to these days who everyone was outraged wasn't getting more Coach of the Year support in 2009?

 

I know, it's not fair to compare our guy to Peyton. But it's not like there's only 2 great QB's in the league now. There's closer to a dozen. Finding one of them is 1) easier, 2) more realistic and 3) makes long-term success more sustainable than this pipe dream of relying on our inept FO to build this phenominally dominant team around the QB.

 

That is all.

 

> if you're trying to say the QB matters 1,000x more than the coach I am literally the last guy on the planet you should want to argue with; not sure why you're quoting me.

 

I'd misunderstood the point of your earlier post. My apologies.

 

> But it's not like there's only 2 great QB's in the league now. There's closer to a dozen. Finding one

> of them is 1) easier, 2) more realistic and 3) makes long-term success more sustainable than this

> pipe dream of relying on our inept FO to build this phenominally dominant team around the QB.

 

Well said. Too many people here want to follow the example of the Ravens of 2000. There are several reasons why that strategy is very, very unlikely to work for the Bills.

 

The Ravens had one of the three best defenses in NFL history. The worst starters on that defense played at or near a Pro Bowl level. Their defensive line was ridiculously dominant, with all four starters requiring a double team. Of the Hall of Famers on the defense, one was Ray Lewis at MLB. The guys to either side of him were really good too. They had a pair of shutdown corners, along with guys like Ed Reed at safety. On offense, they had a great OL anchored by Hall of Fame LT Jon Ogden. They had a very solid running game in the form of Jamal Lewis. And they had a good TE in Shannon Sharpe.

 

Despite a team which was bursting with all that talent, everything had to go just right for them to reach and win the Super Bowl. Not once in the postseason did they encounter a team which a) had a franchise quarterback, and b) had a reasonably complete team around him. The Kerry Collins Giants team they faced in the Super Bowl was a much weaker opponent than the subsequent, Super Bowl-winning Eli Manning Giants teams have been.

 

A team with a great defense + no franchise QB is typically limited to just one Super Bowl win. The Ravens of 2000. The Bucs of 2002. The '85 Bears. As you hinted at, it's very, very difficult to field a truly elite defense for a sustained number of seasons. Even if a GM actually succeeds in building an elite defense (which is no easy feat), his defense is likely to stay elite for only a short amount of time. That means his window for winning the Super Bowl is very small--perhaps only one or two seasons. If something goes wrong during those seasons, or if he gets knocked out of the playoffs by a better team, then that's it. Window closed. Meanwhile, teams with franchise QBs can keep their windows open for ten years or more; giving them plenty of chances with which to win the Super Bowl.