DrDawkinstein Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I 100% get what you're saying but why does everyone hav to suffer because one person had a terrible experience? Yes there are lots of idiots who do stupid stuff at tailgates. But there's like 95% of 70,000 people who do things the right way. I hate the way society has to overreact because there are idiots who can't act like a grown up. Any death is sad but if the facts are true, it's really hard to find pity. Trust me, I've done my share of stupid things but I realized that it is solely on me. I've never been ripped to the point of getting kicked out of a game/ bar. Also if that was my brother, I'd be there to take care of him. I dont know... I'd say it's more like 70% that are doing things the right way. And 30% of 70,000 is 21,000 people. Enough to make quite a mess and/or ruin good times for others. Considering this has been going on in Buffalo for decades, I can't say that anyone has overreacted yet. I think us Bills fans have been given plenty of rope for partying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 i'm no lawyer, and I'm in favor of personal responsibility, but could the Bills be in danger of a lawsuit if this guy was ejected in a state of obvious inebriation, and that contributed to his death? we live in a pretty litigious (sp?) society I thought the same thing. So by ejecting the guy they got him out of the stadium. But did they serve him any alcohol during the game? If so they may be liable. They're not supposed to allow obviously intoxicated people into the stadium in the first place. Another question - does putting obviously intoxicated people back on the street make them liable? Public intoxication is illegal is it not? Should he have been moved to a drunk tank instead of just being deposited outside the gate? Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Gents, we have no idea why this guy died and are taking leaps based on reports of him being kicked out of the stadium. I have known more than a few guys in my lifetime that get nasty when they drink even a little and would get kicked out of a stadium for being drunk, but they would be no where near falling down passing out face first in a creek on a 30 degree night drunk. I am not saying booze was or was not the main factor..but I also know none of you can as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Gents, we have no idea why this guy died and are taking leaps based on reports of him being kicked out of the stadium. I have known more than a few guys in my lifetime that get nasty when they drink even a little and would get kicked out of a stadium for being drunk, but they would be no where near falling down passing out face first in a creek on a 30 degree night drunk. I am not saying booze was or was not the main factor..but I also know none of you can as well. thats all i was getting at too - booze at bills games is a very fair discussion - but we assume a lot about this guy and his family by saying they abandoned him to die after he went on a stupor inducing bender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I 100% get what you're saying but why does everyone have to suffer because one person had a terrible experience? Yes there are lots of idiots who do stupid stuff at tailgates. But there's like 95% of 70,000 people who do things the right way. I hate the way society has to overreact because there are idiots who can't act like a grown up. Any death is sad but if the facts are true, it's really hard to find pity. Trust me, I've done my share of stupid things but I realized that it is solely on me. I've never been ripped to the point of getting kicked out of a game/ bar. Also if that was my brother, I'd be there to take care of him. I agree with you. This isn't a 17 yr old kid we're talking about, this is a 26 year old man. If that was my brother, I wouldn't let it get to that point. You gotta nip these things in the bud. I've cut people off while tailgating. Sometimes it needs to be done. All these things said, I'm surprised there isn't a drunk tank at the stadium. Edited November 16, 2012 by sodbuster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 All these things said, I'm surprised there isn't a drunk tank at the stadium. There is. During the renovations back in 97? 98? when they put in the clubs, they were giving stadium tours and part of it was the new security office with the drunk tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 There is. During the renovations back in 97? 98? when they put in the clubs, they were giving stadium tours and part of it was the new security office with the drunk tank. Yeah, thanks for reminding me. Huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I was thinking about this. Dude's brother, who is considered by security/cops to be too intoxicated to be allowed to stay in the stadium, gets ejected and he knows about it. Does he go with his brother to make sure he's OK? No, he says in and watches the rest of the game. From what I read, his brother and friends asked him if they want him to go with him, and he said he'll just to go to Tailgaters at Abbott and Swestern and they can meet him after the game. He ended up at the other side of the stadium from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 There should be classes on how to drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 There is. During the renovations back in 97? 98? when they put in the clubs, they were giving stadium tours and part of it was the new security office with the drunk tank. Interesting. They have a drunk tank, which could be argued to be an acknowledgement of their duty of ordinary care. [supposition: The guy was obviously seriously intoxicated. So much so that he was ejected but the drunk tank wasn't considered or considered and rejected.] The Bills could be liable for some damages here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 No idea on legal liability but just a very sad story. Prayers for his family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 i'm no lawyer, and I'm in favor of personal responsibility, but could the Bills be in danger of a lawsuit if this guy was ejected in a state of obvious inebriation, and that contributed to his death? we live in a pretty litigious (sp?) society If someone is drunk and out of control, they should be arrested or detained for there own safety and others. If someone is too drunk they might drive away and kill someone in a accident. So by ejecting the guy they got him out of the stadium. But did they serve him any alcohol during the game? If so they may be liable. They're not supposed to allow obviously intoxicated people into the stadium in the first place. Another question - does putting obviously intoxicated people back on the street make them liable? Public intoxication is illegal is it not? Should he have been moved to a drunk tank instead of just being deposited outside the gate? There is. During the renovations back in 97? 98? when they put in the clubs, they were giving stadium tours and part of it was the new security office with the drunk tank. Interesting. They have a drunk tank, which could be argued to be an acknowledgement of their duty of ordinary care. [supposition: The guy was obviously seriously intoxicated. So much so that he was ejected but the drunk tank wasn't considered or considered and rejected.] The Bills could be liable for some damages here. We are all speculating(and so am I)but having worked security some years ago, normally you only detain folks for one of three reasons: 1. They have broken a law(hold for police). 2. They refuse to comply with your instructions/requests. Or 3. They have become threatening/dangerous to other patrons. My guess(and it IS just that)is that he became ill, which annoyed folks and drew the attention of security. He then was asked to leave, and did so without further complaint or resistance(so no detention). Seems he made his way out of the stadium area, and got as far as that ditch stumbled and fell, either stunning or knocking himself completely out and without his proper senses about him drowned in said creek. If that is true I believe the only liability that the Bills are exposed to is whether they served him while he was in that state. Regardless of all the bullstojan above. A mother is now without a son, a father, too. A possible brother or sister is without their sibling. Friends are without their friends. Darwin may be Darwin, but those who suffer are not the ones who are the lost, it is the ones who lose. Very well said sir I was thinking about this. Dude's brother, who is considered by security/cops to be too intoxicated to be allowed to stay in the stadium, gets ejected and he knows about it. Does he go with his brother to make sure he's OK? No, he says in and watches the rest of the game. This poor guy will have a lifetime to think about what he could have and should have done. I feel bad for him even though I would have made a different decision were it my brother. He is probably gonna need counseling to forgive himself for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Yeah this one is a real doosie. I'm very conflicted as I see all sides of this. While there's a few different ways to feel about it, there's maybe only two morals to the story: 1) Don't ever drink yourself into an incapacitated stupor. 2) If someone you know and love is in the above state, stop everything that you are doing and accompany that person to safety. yuuup to both ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Wait, how are the Bills exposed when it is a county property, and a public entity that handles law enforcement and an entire separate entity that handles security? The Buffalo Bills are only associated with this because they were the team on the field and they use the facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Wait, how are the Bills exposed when it is a county property, and a public entity that handles law enforcement and an entire separate entity that handles security? The Buffalo Bills are only associated with this because they were the team on the field and they use the facility. True, I guess I used the word "Bills" when I should have said the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 YIt all depends on what the cause was.. If he was going to walk to the bar and he trips or he slips on ice or is hit by a driver flips bangs hs head knocking him out the rolls into the creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 True, I guess I used the word "Bills" when I should have said the stadium. I don't know the law. But from a common sense standpoint, I would think that depending on the fine print in the lease, there could certainly be situations where both the landlord and the tenant are co-plaintiffs in an action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well... Sad but, it was at least not in Miami. Years back with a party in Miami... One of the dudes we were with never showed back up at the bus... Probably hooked up w/other Bills fans... It wasn't till that night that he magically appeared back @ the hotel (hotel was all the way towards Boca Raton!)... He was probably blasted and got hooked up with another crew... Just imagine passing out in a ditch down in South Florida!... You may become gator food! I guess you gotta stay on your toes everywhere... That's just awful. I mean you hate to speculate but would it surprise anyone if the guy just drank himself to death?!? people get so sh*tfaced drunk there it's ridiculous. Ain't that the truth! People get so blasted that they can't even stay upright in their seats... Of course Bills fans seem to be on the top of the list! Yikes! I feel bad for this guy and his family, but way too many people get way too out of control at the Ralph. I feel like it's gotten much worse over the years. We had season tickets when I was a kid and I never remember it being anywhere near as bad as it was the last time I attended a game in 2010. I would never think about bringing my family to a game now. Not that I blame modern times... But alcohol poisoning seems to be on the rise... It doesn't help that there is a lot more better tasting alcohol on the market... What I been is, back in the day there wasn't all these different types of brews and what not... You can drink a ton of alcohol and not even know it... It tastes to nice! Take the lemonades and what not... It is crazy I know and there should be personal responsibility... But, it is so SO easy to down modern alcoholic beverages! Just saying... Frankly I'm shocked it hasn't happened already given existing dram shop laws and the litigious nature of our society. It seems as though the league has left it up to each team to handle it however they want. That's the part I expect to change. Chicago (around Soldier Field) has really clamped down on it... Can't even hang around the lot during the game... Gotta be gone. Back in the day... Some people could stay back and man the tailgate... All games are sold out, so they wouldn't even have a ticket and just hange back and watch it on TV... Not no more! What may be trickier around BFLO/OP is the private lots... I wonder what Hammer has to say? That is right by him, no? 2) If someone you know and love is in the above state, stop everything that you are doing and accompany that person to safety. I know this sounds corny... You are right... What ever happened to the "buddy system." Really... I was thinking about this. Dude's brother, who is considered by security/cops to be too intoxicated to be allowed to stay in the stadium, gets ejected and he knows about it. Does he go with his brother to make sure he's OK? No, he says in and watches the rest of the game. I made the comment about the away game in Miami above. What happens if the brother is always doing this! Like my Miami story, the dude never made it back to the bus... We waited... Finally his brother said: "!@#$ him, let him find his own way back... He is always doing this!" Wow that is cold! Fortunately, everything was okay and he showed up that night @ the hotel... he hooked up with other Bills fans and got back. What I am saying is some relationships are very contentious. Maybe this has happened many times before and nothing happened... Again, very sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 R.I.P. Anonymous 26 year old Buffalo Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutie Flakes Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My first thoughts were on par with many on here that this young man brought this on himself. What really ticks me off is that neither his brother nor any of his "friends" left with him when he was ejected from the game. They now will have to carry that burden for the rest of their lives. My thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family. I was at the game as well and it seemed that there was a younger and rowdier crowd. There were some young guys in front of us that were obviously intoxicated who kept coming back to their seats with more cups of beer. In the condition they were in, they should not have been served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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