We Model our Defense after the Giants?? This could be a long year.

[Maury Ballstein]

Granted, my observation is quite elementary and does not challenge the superior intellect of the football veterans on this Board....but it does relate to the Bills and it does not have the word "Tebow" in it.....oh wait, it does. Scratch that...

 

Seriously, the main thrust of the post has to do with how we may (MAY) be disappointed with our defensive unit when teams begin dumping the ball off quick...by taking our front four out of the game (with quick release passing plays) we may (MAY) become frustrated with how our linebackers and secondary perform. I love our team...just don't want to get ahead of myself. Our DLine may very well dominate opposing OLines, but on any quick slant pattern where they don't smash the QB into ground beef, they are pretty much a non-factor....the ball is in the LB's and CB's court.

 

very true.....but our CB's are a little bit better than what the G-Men put out there last night. and Sanchez aint Romo..............Romo's made minced meat out of many defenses.....He played great last year, Cowboys defense gave away huge leads..........

[PatsFanNH]

LOL i think I am safe in saying the Bills D will live and die by the pressure and play of your front 4. If they fail get pressure the D will be picked apart. If they get pressure (not just sacks) D will be fine and dandy....

[Luxy312]

I think the idea that you can compare the front 4 of the Giants to the front 4 of the Bills is an absolute joke. Mario Wiliams v. Justin Tuck at LDE: Mario is 6-6 and almost 300 pounds. He's a speed and power pass rusher. Justin Tuck is 6-5 and 268. One dimensional pass rusher, but still effective at what he does based on the schemes they run. Still Tuck has been hurt virtually every other year. Advantage Mario. Kyle Williams v. Linval Joseph at LDT. Kyle is 6-1 and 300 pounds. Pass rusher and run stopper. Linval is 6-5 and 328. Once again, he's one dimensional. He takes up space and doesn't really get after the quarterback. Advantage Williams. Dareus Williams v. Rocky Bernard at RDT. I'm not sure we even need to compare here. In his ROOKIE season, Marcel had 5.5 sacks. Rocky hasn't done that since 2005. Marcel is 6-3 and 320 compared to Rocky at 6-3 and 293. Marcel is bigger, faster and stronger. Advantage Williams. Mark Anderson v. Jason Pierre-Paul at RDE. Mark is definitely the one dimensional pass rusher here. For his career, he's been a situational pass rusher, but still managed 10 sacks last season. He's smaller at just 6-4 and 255 pounds. Jason could be the best pure pass rusher in the NFL. Proved it last year with 16.5 sacks. Now add Mathias Kiwannuka. Up until this year, he's been playing DE. Now they have him essentially as a DE but playing the strongside linebacker position. His job is still primarily to rush the quarterback. Compare him to Arthur Moats

 

Did the original poster REALLY compare Tony Romo to Mark Sanchez and say Sanchez could make all the throws Romo could? This argument is beyond flawed and has absolutely no merit what so ever. Let's compare:

 

Mark Sanchez - 782/1414 for 9,209 yards, 55 TDs, 51 INTs. QB rating of 73.2. That's 55.3% completion rate for 6.51 yards per attempt. INTs at 92.73% of TD's

Tony Romo - 1672/2592 for 20,834 yards, 149 TD's, 72 INTs. QB rating of 96.9. That's 64.5% completion rate for 8.03 yards per attempt. INTs at 48.32% of TD's.

 

It is borderline short bus to compare these guys. Romo's QB rating is 31% better. His completion % is 17% better. His YPA is 23% better. His ratio of INT's to TD's is 92% better. On any measurable scale, Sanchez doesn't measure up to Romo one bit. Sanchez was considered one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and hasn't improved since his rookie season 3 years ago. Don't get me started on Tebow. The Bills beat his style down last year without Kyle Williams, Mario Williams and Mark Anderson. Sanchez factually cannot nor has ever proven that he can "make the throws" that Romo makes. Tannehill is a rookie and TBD, but has no weapons on offense. I'm always worried about lady-Brady, but they're loaded on offense just like the Cowboys are. But, if the Bills hold the Patriots to 24 points and lose by 7 in their first game, I will NOT be concerned one bit.

[BringBackFergy]

I think the idea that you can compare the front 4 of the Giants to the front 4 of the Bills is an absolute joke. Mario Wiliams v. Justin Tuck at LDE: Mario is 6-6 and almost 300 pounds. He's a speed and power pass rusher. Justin Tuck is 6-5 and 268. One dimensional pass rusher, but still effective at what he does based on the schemes they run. Still Tuck has been hurt virtually every other year. Advantage Mario. Kyle Williams v. Linval Joseph at LDT. Kyle is 6-1 and 300 pounds. Pass rusher and run stopper. Linval is 6-5 and 328. Once again, he's one dimensional. He takes up space and doesn't really get after the quarterback. Advantage Williams. Dareus Williams v. Rocky Bernard at RDT. I'm not sure we even need to compare here. In his ROOKIE season, Marcel had 5.5 sacks. Rocky hasn't done that since 2005. Marcel is 6-3 and 320 compared to Rocky at 6-3 and 293. Marcel is bigger, faster and stronger. Advantage Williams. Mark Anderson v. Jason Pierre-Paul at RDE. Mark is definitely the one dimensional pass rusher here. For his career, he's been a situational pass rusher, but still managed 10 sacks last season. He's smaller at just 6-4 and 255 pounds. Jason could be the best pure pass rusher in the NFL. Proved it last year with 16.5 sacks. Now add Mathias Kiwannuka. Up until this year, he's been playing DE. Now they have him essentially as a DE but playing the strongside linebacker position. His job is still primarily to rush the quarterback. Compare him to Arthur Moats

 

Did the original poster REALLY compare Tony Romo to Mark Sanchez and say Sanchez could make all the throws Romo could? This argument is beyond flawed and has absolutely no merit what so ever. Let's compare:

 

Mark Sanchez - 782/1414 for 9,209 yards, 55 TDs, 51 INTs. QB rating of 73.2. That's 55.3% completion rate for 6.51 yards per attempt. INTs at 92.73% of TD's

Tony Romo - 1672/2592 for 20,834 yards, 149 TD's, 72 INTs. QB rating of 96.9. That's 64.5% completion rate for 8.03 yards per attempt. INTs at 48.32% of TD's.

 

It is borderline short bus to compare these guys. Romo's QB rating is 31% better. His completion % is 17% better. His YPA is 23% better. His ratio of INT's to TD's is 92% better. On any measurable scale, Sanchez doesn't measure up to Romo one bit. Sanchez was considered one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and hasn't improved since his rookie season 3 years ago. Don't get me started on Tebow. The Bills beat his style down last year without Kyle Williams, Mario Williams and Mark Anderson. Sanchez factually cannot nor has ever proven that he can "make the throws" that Romo makes. Tannehill is a rookie and TBD, but has no weapons on offense. I'm always worried about lady-Brady, but they're loaded on offense just like the Cowboys are. But, if the Bills hold the Patriots to 24 points and lose by 7 in their first game, I will NOT be concerned one bit.

 

Yer' killin me Smalls

[Luxy312]

Yer' killin me Smalls

 

I believe I did. You were somewhat OK until you got to "Sanchez can make all the throws that Romo can". Then you might have just made the argument that Rex Ryan has a pet unicorn in his basement and that's why they're so damned lucky.

[BringBackFergy]

I believe I did. You were somewhat OK until you got to "Sanchez can make all the throws that Romo can". Then you might have just made the argument that Rex Ryan has a pet unicorn in his basement and that's why they're so damned lucky.

 

Here's the deal...Brady can make those throws over the middle, so can RGIII, Tannehill and every other starting QB in the NFL...a 5 - 10 yd slant route over the middle is something they all learn. I am not talking about a 30 yd sprint down the sideline where the QB has to drop back 5 - 7 steps to unload the ball (in that instance, our defensive line will earn their keep hopefully and either sack or force the QB out of the pocket)....the main thrust of the post centers on why opposing offenses will (in all likelihood) NOT make deep throws and risk exposure to our pass rush when they can make intermediate/quick throws and take the front four out of the passing game altogether (assuming they don't block the ball with a paw). You picked apart two names in the post and ran with it but failed to address the basic premise: a fierce pass rush (whether it is Giants, Bills or other highly touted front fours) does not equate to stopping the pass altogether. Once the pass is completed over the middle or on a screen, our Linebackers and secondary will need to step it up.

[biglukes]

 

 

I believe I did. You were somewhat OK until you got to "Sanchez can make all the throws that Romo can". Then you might have just made the argument that Rex Ryan has a pet unicorn in his basement and that's why they're so damned lucky.

Rex is so lucky because he was so hungry one time, that he literally at a horse. As a result, one of the horseshoes had become permanently lodged up his butt. Hence the good luck.

[Malazan]

TBD insanity at an all new level. Another team struggles and it means the Bills are doomed. Did you guys know the Patriots had a terrible preseason?! The Bills shouldn't even show up.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I'm not singing The Doom Song yet, but the Giants play should ground our expectations. Just having an impressive front four does not guarantee success against a quarterback.Romo looked very good, even with the constant pressure all night, and just beat the Giant's secondary. Fortunately, we aren't playing many elite QB's until the Pats, which hopefully will give time for our secondary to get up to speed, and we play a weak O-line and average to bad QB's this week.

[Luxy312]

Here's the deal...Brady can make those throws over the middle, so can RGIII, Tannehill and every other starting QB in the NFL...a 5 - 10 yd slant route over the middle is something they all learn. I am not talking about a 30 yd sprint down the sideline where the QB has to drop back 5 - 7 steps to unload the ball (in that instance, our defensive line will earn their keep hopefully and either sack or force the QB out of the pocket)....the main thrust of the post centers on why opposing offenses will (in all likelihood) NOT make deep throws and risk exposure to our pass rush when they can make intermediate/quick throws and take the front four out of the passing game altogether (assuming they don't block the ball with a paw). You picked apart two names in the post and ran with it but failed to address the basic premise: a fierce pass rush (whether it is Giants, Bills or other highly touted front fours) does not equate to stopping the pass altogether. Once the pass is completed over the middle or on a screen, our Linebackers and secondary will need to step it up.

 

Obviously not or every QB in the NFL would have the same success that Romo just had. Ask lady-Brady how that's worked out in the last 2 Superbowls against the Giants. Your argument is so simplified that it makes no sense what so ever. There is no defense ever that equates to stopping the pass altogether. What point are you actually trying to make? Let's bet right now that the Bills are going to MAKE Sancez beat them with longer passes. The continuation of the problem with your argument there is that Romo CAN make the long throws. The Giants limited him to the short stuff for the most part because he's a good QB. Suck-chez doesn't have that luxury.

[Malazan]

I'm not singing The Doom Song yet, but the Giants play should ground our expectations. Just having an impressive front four does not guarantee success against a quarterback.Romo looked very good, even with the constant pressure all night, and just beat the Giant's secondary. Fortunately, we aren't playing many elite QB's until the Pats, which hopefully will give time for our secondary to get up to speed, and we play a weak O-line and average to bad QB's this week.

 

The Patriots had a terrible pre-season. Looked downright awful. Not sure why the Bills are going to even show up for this game against the Jets.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

So we model our defense after the Giants (big pass rushers, rush the QB, pressures, sacks, etc) but we have a mediocre linebacking crew and a young secondary (with the exception of Wilson).

 

If Tony Romo can pick that defense apart with quick slant routes and a solid running game from Murray and a fill-in O-line, are we looking at a similar fate this season?? I understand Tebow may not have the timing to execute a quick slant route to a receiver, but I'm sure Sanchez can....if our pass rush is super charged, it means nothing if they can throw 5-10 yd quick slants and gain first downs at will. Our secondary and linebackers better be ready.

 

The Giants started out great, just that their secondary was lost out there. Also just because we wanted a great front four doesn't mean our defensive systems are the same. We will be fine even with young corners bc we still have McGee and Wilson, Byrd to provide experience back their.

[Malazan]

Also just because we wanted a great front four doesn't mean our defensive systems are the same.

 

Of course it means they are the same. Dave Wannstedt has a lot of ties to Tom Coughlin and Perry Fewell. Granted, they are invisible and mostly imaginary, but they are there. Just like the voices.

[BringBackFergy]

Obviously not or every QB in the NFL would have the same success that Romo just had. Ask lady-Brady how that's worked out in the last 2 Superbowls against the Giants. Your argument is so simplified that it makes no sense what so ever. There is no defense ever that equates to stopping the pass altogether. What point are you actually trying to make? Let's bet right now that the Bills are going to MAKE Sancez beat them with longer passes. The continuation of the problem with your argument there is that Romo CAN make the long throws. The Giants limited him to the short stuff for the most part because he's a good QB. Suck-chez doesn't have that luxury.

 

It is a simplified opinion...I never said I was brilliant. Can a moderator please transfer me over to the TBD Disney Site (Ages 3-10)??

 

Of course it means they are the same. Dave Wannstedt has a lot of ties to Tom Coughlin and Perry Fewell. Granted, they are invisible and mostly imaginary, but they are there. Just like the voices.

 

Classic

[K-9]

It is a simplified opinion...I never said I was brilliant. Can a moderator please transfer me over to the TBD Disney Site (Ages 3-10)??

 

 

 

Classic

 

I like your style, BringBack.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Luxy312]

Of course it means they are the same. Dave Wannstedt has a lot of ties to Tom Coughlin and Perry Fewell. Granted, they are invisible and mostly imaginary, but they are there. Just like the voices.

 

Outstanding!

[Mark Vader]

You said it better than me...in less words. Thanks

 

Love the Bills, want them to win every game...just don't want media to come out with headlines "100 Million Dollar Line can't stop Jets Offense"

I suggest you wait and see how the Bills play, before you start panicking.

 

Are there concerns about the Bills defense, yes, but I feel confident in what they are capable of.

 

So let's just wait and see, fair enough?

 

For the record....I ended up posting almost the exact same thing in the shoutbox last night after I watched the game....

 

We DO model our defense after the Giants in many ways.......but after I went back and looked at it a little further

 

- The Giants do not have our safeties....Byrd and Wilson are much better

- The Giants were playing their 5th cornerback as injuries are killing them in the secondary (anyone still think Gilmore was the wrong pick?)

 

 

What I worry about is our defense having a game like this and people start blaming our offense for it........lets keep it real....how our defense goes.....our team goes.

 

That is where FItz struggles....when he is asked to win games on his arm because our defense cant stop anyone....hoping for it to be different this year.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

What lost the game was the Giants O, not its D.

 

This.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

So we model our defense after the Giants (big pass rushers, rush the QB, pressures, sacks, etc) but we have a mediocre linebacking crew and a young secondary (with the exception of Wilson).

 

If Tony Romo can pick that defense apart with quick slant routes and a solid running game from Murray and a fill-in O-line, are we looking at a similar fate this season?? I understand Tebow may not have the timing to execute a quick slant route to a receiver, but I'm sure Sanchez can....if our pass rush is super charged, it means nothing if they can throw 5-10 yd quick slants and gain first downs at will. Our secondary and linebackers better be ready.

 

Hey I totally respect the Giants/Super Bowl Champs and I love their defense BUT.........Both years they won the Super Bowl they were 9-7 in the regular season. They are not the second coming of the Steel Curtain. They are a very good football team with good coaching, a great D-line, great balance and most important = They got Hot at the right time in both their SB seasons.

 

Here's hoping we can do the same!

Edited September 6, 2012 by Cville Bills

[Maury Ballstein]

I'm not singing The Doom Song yet, but the Giants play should ground our expectations. Just having an impressive front four does not guarantee success against a quarterback.Romo looked very good, even with the constant pressure all night, and just beat the Giant's secondary. Fortunately, we aren't playing many elite QB's until the Pats, which hopefully will give time for our secondary to get up to speed, and we play a weak O-line and average to bad QB's this week.

 

and "the giants play should ground our expectations" ?? Man this thread keeps getting worse