One thing worth noting from tonight's scrimmage

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Preseason games should not even be televised. They are worse than camp scrimmages. One team is going for it and the other one is plain vanilla at 50% effort. Give me an 18 game schedule .

 

Including them in season ticket packages at full price is totally absurd and an insult to the fans. these things should be half price at best. With the new CBA, less is done in camp and coaches are really pulling back on preseason "games"

 

 

wrong. you get no feel for anything watching preseason games. they are not even camp scrimmage comparable. everyone trying to avoid getting hurt. injured guys feeling there way through. give me an 18 game season and larger roster sizes and lets get after it, for crying out loud. the preseason is just plain bad.

 

This!

 

The problem is that the NFL has hyped the preseason so much, to make an extra buck, that fans now think it matters.

 

You have teams who just go through the motions and they try to get through preseason healthy. Then you have teams that are out to prove to their fan base they'll be good or are showing off a franchise player. Hell, on teams there are different ideas how to approach preseason. There are guys out proving things while some are taking it easy. You've got guys going hard who want to prove they haven't lost a step or that an injury hasn't slowed them down.

 

[dpberr]

I agree with OP. I think we sometimes take these preseason games way too seriously.

 

I think the lack of preseason strategy is why the Bills started out strongly last year. No tape whatsoever to give to the oppossing team from the preseason games.

 

On the other hand, Minnesota, I felt, actually ran defense and offense you'd see during the regular season.

 

I think Gailey knows he has to play these games...but he dosn't have to give away what he plans on doing once they count and you don't want your guys getting injured.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We're doomed. We don't have a pro bowler at every position. Why bother even showing up? Time to focus on next year's draft.

 

The key is having probowlers at the skill positions. We always talk about how preseason doesn't matter but it seems to matter to the teams that are doing well.

[NoSaint]

Mario was probably lower than 50% effort. Easily. From the little I've seen since last night. It's about not getting hurt.

 

Last year I watched the niners get destroyed with exotic blitzes in the dome - a team with plenty to prove. Look how their season went.

 

Preseason means nothing.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Severely disagree. What issues to the WR's have ? Jones and TJ looked good. We already know what Stevie and Nelson are. 4 decent Wrs I see no issue.

 

They are just a bunch of average guys that will not take us to the next level, that is the problem.

 

start tank, sit sheppard

 

or McKillup

[Ronin]

I agree with OP. I think we sometimes take these preseason games way too seriously.

 

Sometimes the team doesn't take them seriously enough. They do serve a purpose, albeit a limited one.

 

But allow me to ask the obvious, given how they played over the last 13 games of last season (averaging a little over two TDs/game from the offense) as well as vs. the 1st teams this season, what do you think that the chances are that they come out of the gates swinging and pouring on the coals at this point?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I agree, BB. Morrison had a tough game compared to Moats, McKillop, and Batten.

 

Tell me more about your 3rd round pick in your sig--TE from Stanford. Zach Ertz.

 

Wanted Fleener last year and the Stanford TEs are good so I figured I'd try for another. Other than that I don't have much on him I'll have to see how the season goes if I keep him or not.

[Ronin]

Vikings are really not all that bad, they just had a bunch of injuries last year in the secondary

 

Is that it now?

 

It was Ponder and Gerhart, hardly two established starters. Their WRs are also hardly Welker and Andre Johnson.

 

Sigh...even though this is going to be repetitive I'll give in.

 

Starting LT Demetrius Bell, injured after week 4.

 

Thus the shuffling of our O-Line begins.

 

Starting Center Eric Wood, injured after week 9.

 

Thus the shuffling of our O-Line gets worse.

 

 

Starting RB and legit MVP candidate at the time Fred Jackson, injured after week 10

 

 

Starting QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, injured after week 8.

 

Starting WR Donald Jones, injured after week 8.

 

 

This team lost almost half of its starters on offense last year to injuries. Coincidentally, our offensive production started to decline when we had to shuffle the O-Line around. Lose arguably the heart and soul of our offense in Fred Jackson. Lose our only deep threat in Donald Jones. And our QB was playing without being able to call the play in the huddle under one breath.

 

You take all these injuries on offense and it's going to be tough to put up numbers when you have guys playing out of position and 3rd stringers getting significant playing time.

 

So forgive me if I'm not ready to be doom and gloom over this offense based on 2 pre season games when we saw what this team can do last year if they can stay healthy.

 

Ditto on the [sigh] and repetition.

 

That's merely a list of convenient excuses, not by any measure reasons for the team's success this season.

 

i.e., the fact that Fitzpatrick had a rib injury in no way suggests that he's going to play differently. He sure hasn't this preseason. I suppose he just doesn't care about playing well in the preseason. Do you think that's it? If so, then he's been lying to us through his teeth.

 

Same on the rest.

 

And by the way, did you read the Buffnews article talking about all the long plays by the Vikes? I thought that that was relevant. But wait, I forgot, Mario, Dareus, Williams, Anderson and the rest of the D really weren't trying. Is that it? If not, then why?

Edited August 18, 2012 by TaskersGhost

[DrDawkinstein]

Even as an eternal optimist, the best way I've heard that performance summed up has been "a minor cause for alarm".

 

I get that it doesnt matter. I get that we (hopefully) are running vanilla schemes. The only stat Im worried about at the end is shutting out the injury report.

 

That being said however, I would have liked to see them execute one drive, or even one play, crisply, cleanly, and in a dominating fashion. We looked slow and sloppy out there.

 

Is that a direct indication of what's to come this season? No. But we're going to have to go full speed at some point. Im hoping that comes before the preseason is over. We have two more games before it's for real. I'll hold off on worrying until then, the sky is not falling, but it would be nice to see them play like they are trying at least once.

 

The good news is, two preseason games down, and zero injuries. Right now, that's all that matters.

[Fan in San Diego]

I'm watching the replay right now and there are literally plays where our DL stop pushing and stand straight up. Mario Williams is at about 50% effort. I wouldn't read a whole lot into this.

 

Of note, did anyone see Fitz audible out of a run play when the Vikings were clearly showing a run blitz? Me neither.

 

Whats the logic of not even trying? These guys have egos and want to make plays.

[Reed83HOF]

The 3rd preseason game is where you typically leave the starters in most of the game. I am hoping that our next game we see a little flash, but if you really think about Gailey and Wannys stye, it is all about fundamentals and learning to walk before you can run. These first 2 games have shown that we are not game planning and have been very vanilla.

 

On D all we do is rush 4, which is the hallmark of Wanny's D. We can dog on Mario or other starters about not bringing it in the preseason, hell Bruce would report late or would have his knee scoped right before TC so he wouldn't have to practice or play the PS games, but yet he brought it on the opener. Kyle Williams is a player like Talley who will bring it relentlessly whetehr it is a scrimmage, practice, PS game or RS game. We have a young group of CBs Gilmore is going to be a stud and Brooks will be a very good player for us, I am anxious to watch how he develops. Williams has looked shakey thus far, but from what I recall Florence before he was cut had a lot of positives to say about the kid including calling him a future probowler. So I am willingto give the kid a little time. As far LBs go, their asses are on the line this season. Last year it was more difficult to evaluate them with the DL getting blown off the line all year long, that won't happen this year. Barnett was playing at a probowl level last year (Gailey is on record saying as much - his stats compare favorably with the AFC probowl LBs). Morrison and Moats no idea how they will turn out, I do know that Morrison has been a starter in this league, other teams wanted him other than just us, and if Moats is beating him out that is a good thing. Sheppard is a second year player, give the kid a chance to show us what we have - there will be ups and downs, good games and crap games.

 

On Offense, Wood and Pears are still trying to get healthy and remember Glenn is a rookie, but looks like he belongs at LT in the NFL, he will have good days and bad days. Our OL looked capable last year until the injury bug hit; hopefully they will be ready to go when week 1 rolls around. Our WRs are the same as last year with the exception of Glenn. We tried to get one in FA, and before the season was over Nix even said he wanted to add 2 more, we weren't able to. We will again see good games and some poor games from this group. SJ will be solid as usual. Nelson & Jones now have year 2 and need to progress and build upon last season. Glenn is a rookie, so there will be some growing pains as well. The Offense as a whole hasn't been touched or improved upon nearly as much as the D, we will go as far ast Fitz and the WRs take us.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day and this team won't be fixed in 2 real offseasons with Nix and Gailey. This is still a really young team and some players are still being developed, that is what preseason is for. Play vanilla, fundamental football without exotic schemes to build your base is what we do in the preseason and most of camp. Also in the private practices in camp, I am sure they are working on thier true packages. This is still a really young team and with lots of new players over the last 2 years (especially on D), they have to have some time to gel and get accustomed to the 43. Playing a base D right now is the best thing to do for this group.

[Ronin]

The 3rd preseason game is where you typically leave the starters in most of the game. I am hoping that our next game we see a little flash, but if you really think about Gailey and Wannys stye, it is all about fundamentals and learning to walk before you can run. These first 2 games have shown that we are not game planning and have been very vanilla.

 

And if it's more of the same, then what will your position be?

 

They're not likely to give the starters more than a series in the final PS game although IMO they should play them until they prove some minimum level of competence and performance.

[Reed83HOF]

And if it's more of the same, then what will your position be?

 

They're not likely to give the starters more than a series in the final PS game although IMO they should play them until they prove some minimum level of competence and performance.

 

It is the preseason, I don't care about our record. I do want to see some level of competetance with our team to be able to play football, vanilla or game planned. If Fitz throws a decent pass I expect it to be caught, I want to see WRs running routes, not loking like they are lost or Fitz or Gailey or whoever conversing about running the wrong route. Football is easy, you throw the ball, you catch the ball, you run, you tackle. It is a tad bit more difficult to play a game when the other teams aren't playing vanilla like us. We haven't audibled much or adjusted at all to what they are doing. Our OL have to block, Glenn needs to show he can handle DEs without help from pulls and chip blocks. Our WRs need to show they can run the proper routes when certain plays are called. I think that the lack of audibles and mixing the offensive calls up is a result of this. Our WRs aren't great and need work along with Glenn and the members of the OL who are out of position due to Pears and Wood's injuries. Once you add the chips and pulls and double team blocking the OL will immediatley improve. IIRC we are at the point with Gailey's offense where the WRs are allowed to deviate their routes based on the coverage they are receiving. I expect that the lack of audibles or motions is related to allowing the WRs to solely focus on this new requirement against a live D. I am sure when they look at the tape afterwards they are being coached up if they chose the right deviation or not. I also wonder if Fitz is holding back on throwing the ball to allow the WRs time to run these routes. This is the time to work and build on that, which is why the offense has looked shakey at best.

 

As far as the D, we need to know Sheppard is taking the right angles, shedding blockers and attacking his primary target. My biggest concern with him is that he is a second year player who is now all of a sudden a starter and is responsbile for calling the plays. That is a lot of responsibility. I hope he can handle it. Again as it is the preseason, I would expect that they are trying to make sure he is calling just the one play and then having him focus on playing the game.

 

All I expect and want is this team to be ready week 1. I don't want any injuries, this team is always one of the most injured in the league and that has to end. If we play 4 preseason games and not being able to handle the basic fundamentals I stated above, yeah I will be a little bit worried headed into the season. I would love to see a glimpse of what we might have to offer for a series or 2, but I don't expect it from Gailey or Wanny for that matter it is not their style...

Edited August 18, 2012 by reed83 4th Rounder

[Optometric Insight]

Haven't you heard, when the Bills play poorly in preseason or training camp then it doesn't mean anything but if they look good then it's an indication that they are going to make the playoffs this season.

 

Yes, yes I have heard. I agree with the first 7/8 of it, disagree with the last 1/8. If something bad happens pre-season and can be worked upon, it will be worked upon. If something good happens, thats great and you can work on the other things that need to be worked on.

 

To say that we are going to the playoffs is taking one post and combining it with another and throwing that combination under a microscope that you are looking through with a magnifying glass with reading glasses on or, in short, creating a hyperbole or exaggeration. I haven't once read that something good that happens in the preseason will alone guarantee a playoff berth.

 

It was Ponder and Gerhart, hardly two established starters. Their WRs are also hardly Welker and Andre Johnson.

 

That's merely a list of convenient excuses, not by any measure reasons for the team's success this season.

 

i.e., the fact that Fitzpatrick had a rib injury in no way suggests that he's going to play differently. He sure hasn't this preseason. I suppose he just doesn't care about playing well in the preseason. Do you think that's it? If so, then he's been lying to us through his teeth.

 

Same on the rest.

 

The font in red: I do believe Welker is more of a slot receiver and an underneath guy. Harvin is a speedster. And Johnson doesn't jump as much as Simpson.

 

The font in golden rod: nothing is convenient in life. Just merely a coincidence and proof.

 

i.e. he sure is throwing better than at the beginning of last season and way, way better than the third quarter of last season. Plus, that's not even the main reason why people think he's going to play better, its more because of the fact that we got a QB coach now and that there won't be all the pressure of leading a team, not because of a "convenient excuse".

 

And what makes it excuse in the first place? Is it because its not what you want to here? You asked, you got an answer, you decided the answer didn't work with your belief, you decided to label it an excuse. What are you, an annoying teacher? Don't ask questions you're not going to like the answer to, especially if you're just going to call it an excuse because its not an excuse, its an answer and his reasoning. Everything you've said is the exact opposite of an excuse since your trying to blame everything! So what should I call it? A convenient unexcuse?

[sllib olaffub]

Having said that, trying to make any positive judgments is baseless embellishment.

 

Defensively this wasn't the Pats, it was Ponder & Co. They were 3-13 last season.

 

People are going to keep pushing this off into the regular season, but if the first unit cannot show some competency next week in however many plays they log, sorry, they're not going to just pull it from their tailpipe on opening day.

 

I'm very concerned. So far this offense hasn't even proven that it can play against a first team D. So what if it's "vanilla," these games are a measure of talent v. talent. Both defenses faced were below average last season. Their offenses were about the same.

 

I simply don't share the optimism that so many are feeling. I see a gain of Mario, a reduction in play at the corner spots, weakness at the LB unit other than for Barnett, a marginal #1 WR and a bunch of 3/4/5 type WRs after him to fill in and start at #2, and a soon to be QB on the outs and contractual albatross. That's not a recipe for improvement and net gain in performance.

 

To this, I reply: Does anyone believe this offense has regressed? I simply cannot imagine that this offense will be worse when we've clearly upgraded our O-line, and Fitz has another year under his belt, is healthy, we now know what Spiller can do (which hasn't been showcased yet this preseason), and some of our WR's are entering what is known as the "click" year, the 3rd year when things usually start to click for WR's. I was really worried last year after the close of preseason. This year, I'm seeing a team that is merely not showing it's hand. Our offense will be fine. It was pretty good last year, and there's every reason to believe it will be better this year. Think top 10.

 

And, as far as defense goes - how could anyone second guess our D-line? It will make things hard for people. Our secondary, which just 2 years ago led the NFL in turnovers, has been upgraded in talent. It is young, and it will be a very good secondary for years to come. Our linebackers have shown weaknesses - but, on the whole, with Wannstedt coaching, there is every reason to believe, at the very least, we'll be seeing a top 15 defense. I'm thinking top 5, personally.

 

With our schedule, a top 10 offense and a top 15 defense (worse case scenario) - we're looking at 9 wins. I'm thinking 11 is the golden number for us this year. Anyway, we should all know this team is not complete - it will still evolve and improve over the next 2-3 years. I'm looking at a team that is now LEGITIMATE. The Bills, for the first time in 10 years, will be a team that other teams will not be able to just assume is a victory going in. We will be a team that even the Patriots are not going to want to play. That's enough to get me excited. Relax - when the season starts, this team will look much different than it has during the preseason.

[Heitz]

 

 

I'll address your entire combative post by stating that the first three games the offense averaged almost 38 points per game.

 

In the next four games the offense averaged only 21 points per game.

 

Over the last 9 they averaged 14.6 points per game.

 

See any kind of trend there?

 

I should be the one asking you, so you're going to ignore the last 13 weeks of the season?

 

Lovely.

 

LOL

 

BTW, let's see if you and your sharp wit can identify what was present last season to start the season that won't be present this season?

 

Of all your posts, this one is the most confusing to me...

 

So you say we started the season hot, then our production trailed off. I gotcha there, though you don't mention losing Freddy and Wood...

 

But then you ask what's present this year that wasn't at the beginning of last. Even if it's the exact same O as the beginning of last year (and there are a couple adds), that squad was pretty darn good!

 

Hopefully with a healthy O, we'll be able to get back on that early season track...

 

[joey greco]

Of all your posts, this one is the most confusing to me...

 

So you say we started the season hot, then our production trailed off. I gotcha there, though you don't mention losing Freddy and Wood...

 

But then you ask what's present this year that wasn't at the beginning of last. Even if it's the exact same O as the beginning of last year (and there are a couple adds), that squad was pretty darn good!

 

Hopefully with a healthy O, we'll be able to get back on that early season track...

 

The offense had a hot stretch-it had to open things up to play catchup in games, and also had several things go its way early. KC was ready to implode all preseason-a couple of tough calls and Berry's injury was all it took and they mentall forfeited. Fitz also had many completions into ridiculous coverage and dropped picks in those games. As the year went on the law of averages caught up to him and those interceptions were being made and his stats reflected it.

 

I love Fitzpatrick but I would bet against him ever replicating his early 2011 numbers and even approaching them again in his career.

[thewildrabbit]

Chuck Dickerson, is that you?

naa, he hated Marv

 

 

 

IMO fans should be concerned over those first two preseason games, not about the final scores or how the 2nd,3rd string players looked.

 

 

The Bills looked very badly in many areas they were supposed to improve in. I'll wait until the first REGULAR SEASON game before making to much of it tho

[ajzepp]

I think you're right. I also think that napping and quitting isn't quite what the 'Stache had in mind for his starters 10-20 snaps.

 

 

Even as an eternal optimist, the best way I've heard that performance summed up has been "a minor cause for alarm".

 

I get that it doesnt matter. I get that we (hopefully) are running vanilla schemes. The only stat Im worried about at the end is shutting out the injury report.

 

That being said however, I would have liked to see them execute one drive, or even one play, crisply, cleanly, and in a dominating fashion. We looked slow and sloppy out there.

 

Is that a direct indication of what's to come this season? No. But we're going to have to go full speed at some point. Im hoping that comes before the preseason is over. We have two more games before it's for real. I'll hold off on worrying until then, the sky is not falling, but it would be nice to see them play like they are trying at least once.

 

The good news is, two preseason games down, and zero injuries. Right now, that's all that matters.

 

Spot on.

[TheKickIsGood]

Also, it was a scrimmage.