Heels20X6 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Office argument raging out of control... Is Ichiro Suzuki a first ballot hall-of-fame inductee? GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well obviously, now that he is a Yankee of course he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 yes, to consistently hit significantly northward of .300 and 200 hits is a golden ticket to Cooperstown. He belongs there...in a yankee uni no less Office argument raging out of control... Is Ichiro Suzuki a first ballot hall-of-fame inductee? GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Office argument raging out of control... Is Ichiro Suzuki a first ballot hall-of-fame inductee? GO! I can't settle the argument, but I believe Ichiro will go in on the first ballot. Outside Seattle, it's hard to think of a more under-appreciated talent than Ichiro. If he'd played in a "baseball town" (sorry, Seattle, we love you, but it's a baseball outpost), he could have been the decade's most popular player. Superior hitting, excellent defender, feared base-runner and could outwork anyone on the field. If he'd been on more winning teams, I doubt anyone would deny Ichiro is a first-ballot hall-of-famer. Edited July 25, 2012 by Max Fischer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlegm Alley Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Absolutely. If you take into account not only what he has been able to accomplish in the MLB, but also what he did during his career in Japan, there is no doubt he is a 1st ballot HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 And I can't picture anyone associating him with steroids, which will be such a big thing with the voters in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No doubter he will be first ballot. What is the argument against that happening? I can't think of a reason to keep him out. He is at 2500 hits after a 12 year career - that's an average of over 200 hits a year, including a high of 262 which is obscene! The standard in baseball I believe is a 10 year career and to be one of the best of your era's. He clearly was and is that! He won an mvp and rookie of the year, all star game mvp, has led the league in hits multiple times as well as leading in batting average and steals on different occasions, is a 10 time all star, a 10 time gold glover, add it to all he did in Japan and I don't see an argument against him. Do tell what is the argument against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 he looks different than the rest of us crackers.... ...and he talks purty funny Do tell what is the argument against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Absolutely. He's easily the most successful Japanese born player, and probably would've had 4,000 hits had he played his entire career in MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yes, though I would rather see Hideki Matsui get in instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 as much as I love 'Godzilla', not sure i'd consider him first ballot...or second even... Yes, though I would rather see Hideki Matsui get in instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 as much as I love 'Godzilla', not sure i'd consider him first ballot...or second even... Probably not, but Monument Park > Baseball HOF, maybe he will make it there some day instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 as much as I love 'Godzilla', not sure i'd consider him first ballot...or second even... or 15th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Probably not, but Monument Park > Baseball HOF, maybe he will make it there some day instead. Monument Park where? Surely not the one in Yankee Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Monument Park where? Surely not the one in Yankee Stadium. Indeed. I was just checking out the llist of great Yankees enshrined there, looks like it's harder to get in there than the HOF, so many great names missing. Matsui won't make it there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Love Godzilla, but he'll need to purchase a ticket to the HoF like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Absolutely. He's easily the most successful Japanese born player, and probably would've had 4,000 hits had he played his entire career in MLB. Even if he got 4,000 hits he would only be 50/50 to make the Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't follow baseball anymore, but strangely was looking up Ichiro's stats like 2 days ago. I saw his name in some article and was shocked that he was still playing, so looked him up. Based on the stats I saw and the fact that he is probably the most successful cross-over Japanese player, I would vote first-team HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 He's definitely a HOFer (I hate the 1st ballot thing - the guy is or he isn't). He has a lifetime WAR of 54.7. In comparison, Dave Winfield's was 59.4 and because I hate the Yankees, you should know that Robin Yount's was 72.4. Now, Ichiro's lifetime OPS+ is only 113 (Yount 115, Winfield 130) but if he can get to 3k hits, it's a slam-dunk. I'd vote for him but I don't get a vote (though I'm quite sure I understand the game much better than a few that do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 He's definitely a HOFer (I hate the 1st ballot thing - the guy is or he isn't). He has a lifetime WAR of 54.7. In comparison, Dave Winfield's was 59.4 and because I hate the Yankees, you should know that Robin Yount's was 72.4. Now, Ichiro's lifetime OPS+ is only 113 (Yount 115, Winfield 130) but if he can get to 3k hits, it's a slam-dunk. I'd vote for him but I don't get a vote (though I'm quite sure I understand the game much better than a few that do). How is Robin Yount's career counter to the Yankees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 How is Robin Yount's career counter to the Yankees? I have to explain this? It was counter to Winfield, who played on the Yankees for 9 years and had quite a bit of success there. I picked Winfield and Yount because they are both HOFer with 3k+ hits and were sound defensively (like Ichiro). I'm quite sure I could find multiple Yankees fans (not named Steinbrenner) that would tell me that Dave Winfield was a far superior player. (I remember a guy telling me that Roger Maris deserved enshrinement in Cooperstown. Even when I showed that his career stats were comparable to Greg Freaking Luzinski he kept going on.) Now I just smile politely when Yanks fans talk about the HOF (especially those not from the tri-state area). Y'know, except on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 OK..I'll bite...I consider myself a pretty big baseball fan, and I could look it up but I'm being lazy...what is WAR? He's definitely a HOFer (I hate the 1st ballot thing - the guy is or he isn't). He has a lifetime WAR of 54.7. In comparison, Dave Winfield's was 59.4 and because I hate the Yankees, you should know that Robin Yount's was 72.4. Now, Ichiro's lifetime OPS+ is only 113 (Yount 115, Winfield 130) but if he can get to 3k hits, it's a slam-dunk. I'd vote for him but I don't get a vote (though I'm quite sure I understand the game much better than a few that do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 OK..I'll bite...I consider myself a pretty big baseball fan, and I could look it up but I'm being lazy...what is WAR? And more importantly, what is it good for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hahaha...well played!!! And more importantly, what is it good for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Wins above replacement Edited July 26, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) WAR is a metric that looks at Wins Above Replacement. It shows how many more wins that player adds over a replacement player at that position. Many of these advanced metrics like WAR are standard baseball analysis these days which clubs use to objectively evaluate players. Ichiro is an automatic 1st ballot. That's not my opinion, just fact. I like how there is lot of objectivity given to overly aggressive defensive shifts these days. That's the new "moneyball" that is occurring on the defensive side this year. Edited July 26, 2012 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I have to explain this? It was counter to Winfield, who played on the Yankees for 9 years and had quite a bit of success there. I picked Winfield and Yount because they are both HOFer with 3k+ hits and were sound defensively (like Ichiro). I'm quite sure I could find multiple Yankees fans (not named Steinbrenner) that would tell me that Dave Winfield was a far superior player. (I remember a guy telling me that Roger Maris deserved enshrinement in Cooperstown. Even when I showed that his career stats were comparable to Greg Freaking Luzinski he kept going on.) Now I just smile politely when Yanks fans talk about the HOF (especially those not from the tri-state area). Y'know, except on the internet. Oh, sorry, I know about both of their careers but they were before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 WAR is a metric that looks at Wins Above Replacement. It shows how many more wins that player adds over a replacement player at that position. Many of these advanced metrics like WAR are standard baseball analysis these days which clubs use to objectively evaluate players. Ichiro is an automatic 1st ballot. That's not my opinion, just fact. I like how there is lot of objectivity given to overly aggressive defensive shifts these days. That's the new "moneyball" that is occurring on the defensive side this year. You're right but it's an opinion of opinions. I remember reading a few years ago about a BBWAA member not voting for Rickey Henderson on the first ballot because "I never vote for anyone on the first ballot". Really? Just look at this. Dude led the AL in walks at age 39. 39! Also, there's no such thing as 'objectivity'. It's like 'perfection'. It's a noble pursuit but an unreachable destination. Oh, sorry, I know about both of their careers but they were before my time. No need to be sorry. I missed the Koufax, Drysdale & Gibson in '68. We can't choose when/where we're born. But now I'm thinking how we're thrust into our teams/religion like in the OSU tie thread. No need to re-hash that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 ...those that can't play, write about it....what a crapload of a statement..while not all superstars are first ballot worthy, but there certainly are a good deal that are, and rickey henderson was one of the most feared players around...at one point he had the most lead off hr's in mlb history, steals leader in mlb, hit for ridiculous average, and defensively could get to any ball hit... You're right but it's an opinion of opinions. I remember reading a few years ago about a BBWAA member not voting for Rickey Henderson on the first ballot because "I never vote for anyone on the first ballot". Really? Just look at this. Dude led the AL in walks at age 39. 39! Also, there's no such thing as 'objectivity'. It's like 'perfection'. It's a noble pursuit but an unreachable destination. No need to be sorry. I missed the Koufax, Drysdale & Gibson in '68. We can't choose when/where we're born. But now I'm thinking how we're thrust into our teams/religion like in the OSU tie thread. No need to re-hash that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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