Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Eli lost 7 regular season games last year with great receivers and a top notch defense. If they had a reasonably tough division they wouldn't have cracked .500 Probably a nit, but the Giants defense was MIA much of the season. They have the horses to be top notch but they struggled with injuries. They got people back and their D got tough at just the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvrOfficiousJerk Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Probably a nit, but the Giants defense was MIA much of the season. They have the horses to be top notch but they struggled with injuries. They got people back and their D got tough at just the right time. I was going to say that Stevie Johnson slant which led to a 70-some yard TD doesn't happen if NYG's first string DB's weren't out by the start of preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Joe Namath One big intangible Fitz possesses is leadership. The guy will do anything to win a game and his teammates know it. How many comeback games has he had the last two years? Haters refuse to see it but Fitz is pretty clutch too. PTR Well, there have only been 10 wins total, so you tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Tom Brady. When he was winning Super Bowls he was merely a game manager type. His defense and kicker did most of the work. Very mediocre. He's one of the greatest there is now, but he was very average back then. And each win was ONLY by 3 points. If Jimbo is considered not to be one of the best ... seems fair. Rypien w/the Skins QB for the Bills 2nd SB. only been 10 wins Not that I'm a HUGE Fitz fan. But you need to factor in major injuries and a very crappy Defense. IIRC, last season Fitz was on par with Princess Brady until his rib injury. Dilfer would never have won w/o the Ravens D. Edited June 20, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 In the end can we all agree that it isnt necessary to have an elite quarterback to win the superbowl, but it sure does help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 In the end can we all agree that it isnt necessary to have an elite quarterback to win the superbowl, but it sure does help? That, and Larry Csonka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sadly...Jeff Hostetler If you are going to say hostetlrr I think you have to add Phil Simmms too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think the question is more insightful if rephrased: How many mediocre SB winning QBs in the last decade? Not sure it does any good to compare today's game to Stabler's, or even Dilfer's. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 troy aikman is probably the greatest example of how you can still be a great team with a game manager at qb. imo, fitz is better than aikman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 In the end can we all agree that it isnt necessary to have an elite quarterback to win the superbowl, but it sure does help? I think we can only agree that everyone has a different definition of "mediocre". But they all include Trent Dilfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Jim McMahon Phil Simms Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler Mark Rypien Brad Johnson I seem to remember that '03 Tampa defense outscoring their offense a couple of games. If we had a D like those guys did, I would say NO PROBLEM for a playoff berth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff_bills4ever Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think we can only agree that everyone has a different definition of "mediocre". But they all include Trent Dilfer. :lol: Made my day right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Could throw Rypien in there too, although he had a fantastic year. The two guys after Dilfer were pretty marginal too - Brady wasn't yet Brady in '01, and Brad Johnson in '02. Those early 2000's were a brutal mini-era. I think Jim Plunkett would qualify too, though I'm too young to really say. Rypien had a really good second year and then a terrific fourth year. Something happened after that, but his first four years he looked like an elite QB being born, and then ... nobody knows what, but something happened. He absolutely was not a mediocre QB when he won the Super Bowl. Nor was Theismann. Joe was not elite, not top three, but was absolutely in the top 25% of QBs (the top eight) in the league. Dilfer Doug Williams Jim McMahon Brad Johnson (he wasn't mediocre that year, he was excellent, and you could make an argument that he was a very good QB with the bad luck to usually be in bad situations throughout almost all of his career) That was it, IMHO, though you could make an argument for Plunkett, but he wasn't mediocre, he was above average though not elite. Hostetler would've fit, but Hostetler wasn't the QB that year. Simms/Hostetler were the two, and if Hostetler had been the QB all year, they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl. I'd argue that Simms/Hostetler was not a mediocre combo. troy aikman is probably the greatest example of how you can still be a great team with a game manager at qb. imo, fitz is better than aikman. Aikman wasn't a game manager. He made it look so easy you could think he was one, but he just wasn't. In 1992, for example, the year they won their first SB, Aikman was 5th in the league in completion percentage, tied for 8th in the league in Y/A, 3rd in the league in QB rating and had 23 TDs and 14 INTs in a year when only two QBs had twice as many TDs as INTs. Aikman was 3rd in the league in TD passes that year. Aikman was elite. Fitz isn't in his league. Edited June 24, 2012 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) I think Jim Plunkett would qualify too, though I'm too young to really say. I disagree that Plunkett was mediocre. He had a great college career, was a #1 overall draft pick in 1971 (by NE) and was offensive rookie of the year. MVP of SB XV in 1980 and won 2 SBs 1980 and 1983 for the Raiders. He may not have been flashy, but he wasn't mediocre. Edited June 24, 2012 by mabden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Tom Brady. When he was winning Super Bowls he was merely a game manager type. His defense and kicker did most of the work. Very mediocre. He's one of the greatest there is now, but he was very average back then. One of the more interesting things about the QB at the helm of the Pats team which won their first SB is that actually for a lot of that season the QB listed as first on the depth chart but temporarily unable to play was that SB impactful QB non other than Drew Bledsoe. 1. It was actually a point of some controversy that Brady was still the QB after Bledsoe recovered enough from the freak accident of a collapsed lung but Bellicheat correctly stuck with the hot and effective hand of Brady as the QB starter. Those who lived by the alleged NFL doctrine that a starter should not lose his job to injury fortunately for the Pats disagreed with Bledsoe whose likely included in his major contributions and impact on this SB winner is that he was a true TEAMer in that he not only supported his personal competitor Brady with vet wisdom and advice when he was sidelines, but he graciously declared there was no controversy and the winning Brady was the starter even when he recovered. Given the egotiam of most athleres, an injured player like Bledsoe might well have publicly insisted on getting at least a shot at defending his starting role on the filed. If Bledsoe had not been injured, ironically I think it would have been doubtful the Pats even made the playoffs that year and it would not have been shocking if after his unsuccessful coaching stint at Cleveland Bellichest might even have lost his job. 2. Of even greater real world import, I (and I am sure most other logical watchers) would agree that without Bledsoe stepping in after Brady was injured in a must-win playoff game the Pats would not have won an SB that year. Bledsoe fully deserved the SB ring he got that season even though Brady was clearly the started due to injury for that team because in addition to putting the TEAM first when he graciously lost his starting QB role, his play was absolutely critical to the team winning a must-win game in the playoffs when Brady went down. Bledsoe entered the AFC chanpionship game with the Pats actually down. He had an essential impact for the SB win in that he led the team to the winning TD pass in that game. Like Bledsoe or not, I think it is clear that like Earl Morrall the mediocre (but long lived QB who had an essential impact on the Colts winning the SB that year) was essential for that TEAM to win an SB. The bottomline is simply that in response to the lead question in this thread yes there are lots of examples of medicore QBs being at the helm of SB winning teams. When one adds to that the fact that definition of whether a QB had a mediocre career is really subjective since it is not unreasonable to declare any SB winning QB as having far more than a mediocred QB record, Garo Yepremian actually threw and INT (was it a fumble) in his QB stint at the helm of what most agree was the best NFL team ever. 3. In addition for Bills purposes in the real world this thread asks the wrong question. As a Bills fan I do not want this team to worry aboutwhether the QB is an SB winning quality QB but instead is the player merely a playoff appearance ready QB. It would simply be insane if the Bills were happy to mortgage the future of "merely" having a playoff qualifying level QB because we insist on having a proven SB winning QB. Should we have done anything necessary to get FA Peyton Manning because he has won an SB even if it would have taken blowing the team's salary cap for '12 and also likely force us to give an ownership share to get Manning to sign since he was the only proven SB winning QB out there? It seems clear to me that the Bills would have been foolish to do whatever it took to get an definite SB winning QB on this team. One has to walk before trying to run and actually our goal is to learn to crawl before we try to even walk, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Seems like every six months or so I gotta come along and remind some of you football illiterates that Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw are in the HOF for a reason: they were great QBs. Period. Carry on. GO BILLS!!! People tend to forget that the "Mel Blount Rule" wasn't instituted until 1978. Before then, DBs could molest receivers the entire length of the field. As soon as the instituted "5 yard", Bradshaw became the Steelers offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think we can only agree that everyone has a different definition of "mediocre". But they all include Trent Dilfer. +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think we can only agree that everyone has a different definition of "mediocre". But they all include Trent Dilfer. :lol: Made my day right there. +2 Mediocre as a quarterback, yes. As an analyst… much better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Yes--but there's two of ways of looking at it: as a percentage of Super Bowls won, or as a percentage of quarterbacks to have won a Super Bowl. Super Bowl Champs since 1990 (* = low impact QB) SF NYG* WAS* DAL DAL SF DAL GB DEN DEN STL BAL* NE* TB* NE NE PIT* IND NYG* PIT NO GB NYG* 8 of the last 23 SB Champions had low-impact QB's or just over 33% BUT, of those 23 SB Champions, there have only been 16 different QB's which means 50% of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks since 1991 1990 have been low-impact. Interpret that data as you will... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 troy aikman is probably the greatest example of how you can still be a great team with a game manager at qb. imo, fitz is better than aikman. You've said numerous stupid things on this board....this is up there with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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